K&M SPIDER

I've always been a bit heavy handed for these single point suspension stands. Plus the 76 potentially puts force much further out to the edges...

End result is quite a lot of 'bounce' or 'sway' as you find yourself perhaps pounding out a boogie-woogie or rock and roll piano part. I guess part of it comes from starting on pianos and heavy organs... I simply feel pretty uncomfortable if the keyboard moves even a fraction of an inch..!

Something I've run across with the newer featherweight keyboards they are making nowadays (I played a Krome61... only 16 lbs!) is that they are VERY easy to make bounce about on the stands. Something I guess I'm going to have to deal with with a 20 lbs BK-9! I may have to go back to my old standby, the heavy duty Velcro that was hard plastic on both parts, and Velcro the keyboard to the stand!

Never a problem with bounce with my Apex 48 pro.....

I would actually like to hear from people that really have this K&M spider stand pro or con. The G70 is a monster of a keyboard & heavy so I could see this type of stand is maybe not the right piece of gear I actually used a heavy quik-lok double braced X stand for my G70 because of it's length..but in my experiences with column stands I just love them, been using the
Ultimate APEX 48 pro for years & always been a good performer,...now they have changed the design so I might be looking toward the K&M for my needs now...

WHAT G70 ????????????

The one I had years ago remember??..

Looks like a shop display to me...

That pic above is certainly is in a music store....
but I bought one very soon afterwards..

I have this stand at home for the last 6 years. Used to sit a G70 with a Yamaha SY 85 on top (both heavy!). Never had problems with stability. Now I use it with a PA3X (lighter than the G70) with a Triton LE on top. I do not gig, but even if you intend to use it for gigging, I personally find it very convenient to move and set up quickly.

I hope it helps to answer your question.

Cheers,

Carlos Silva

How about an issue with pedals? can we use an EC5 or maybe an expression pedal with a sustain? is there enough room?

I think it is more to do with the strength you play at than any other factor. Now, I'm not the heaviest handed guy I know (I got a couple of friends that are pianists that sit in from time to time, and they always drive the G70 harder than I do!) but I still definitely come from a strong piano background, and am used to putting a lot more force into the note than players that perhaps came from organ, synth or accordion backgrounds.

All I know is, if it CAN move, I can make it move!

I'm sure the stand is stable enough for the player - but it's not the player you have to worry about when it comes to stability. It would be difficult for most of us that have performed in any venue to recall a time when someone didn't come up and try to lean on the edge of the keyboard, lean on the Bose tower(s), lean on the speaker poles, etc... Looking at the size of the stand's feet, their positioning, and the height of where the keyboard would be perched, and the configuration of the support arms, NAH! It just would not be a stable platform for most entertainers - especially if you were set up like DNJ's current rig. At lest the stand legs on DNJ's rig are about 2/3 as wide as the keyboard. The K&M Stand legs only appear to be about 1/3 as wide as a 61-note board. I would hate to see it on a 76 with someone leaning on the outer edge.



Gary

Apex 48 pro .....
Been using it nightly on gigs 4 years ROCK SOLID!!
K&M Spider is just as good......everyone I talked to around the world loves them for live play on stage.

it seems that this kind of stand are to high for me.

It seems that the stand hides most of the player. no?

Can you still look at the people dancing?

I cut 8 inches off the top of mine. Now you can see everyone.

I've been using mine for about 2 years now, I gig atleast once a week, up to 3. I'm playing bar gigs with drunk girls jumping up on stage hanging on me and my keyboards.

I do have to say, one time a girl was so drunk she basically leaned all her body weight on one side of my keyboard which sew sawed the other up, then it came down but off the stopper, I luckly stopped it with my foot before it hit the ground.

I love a heavy duty X stand or Z stand because of the lack of bounce, but set up and looks, the Spider wins hands down

Frank... Your wife doesn't read this forum does she...

She knows, She sometimes takes pictures

Then I think we need to see these pictures (for educational puposes) lol

Probably for different reasons than montunoman, I'd like to see photos of various set ups ... I work hard at this but may not be working smart. I learned a lot from seeing photos of Gary and Donny's rigs ... would like to see some more
Ciao,
Jerry

I don't know how one plays with these new stands. My biggest complaint is no room for "pedals" and no secure keyboard "mountings."

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the old A-frame USS (Ultimate Support Systems) from the 90's. This is the "tall" one........

http://www.jaspers-alu.de/jaspers-alu/images/4D-145B.jpg

I have 5 sets of them and I'd buy 5 more if they still made them. Best stands I've ever owned/used. Light as a feather, strong, portable, versatile, setup time under a minute, 1-3 tiers and each one height adjustable, gorgeous black, plenty of leg room for pedals.

IMO, these were the best stands USS ever made. I don't know why they don't offer them as another "line?" My only regret is I bought them for the 61 keys. I wish I had one for my 76. Sturdy and stable as a battleship! The ceiling could collapse and your keyboards will still be sitting there glued to the stand.

see also: http://www.harmonycentral.com/t5/Keys-Sy...ds/td-p/8545015

Mark, I bought one of those off Craig's List a couple years ago. It had never been used. I never used it because I have several of the Ultimate Support A-frames, which I use all the time, and have for about 20 years! I sold it about six months ago. Might be able to get it back if you are interested.
DonM

I used to use A-frames, but their main drawback was setup and breakdown. You basically have to disassemble them every time. X-stands and Apex types, everything folds up neatly, presto! You are out of there...

Not so fast Diki when you have a mic boom, and a second tier also ,......the Ultimate Apex 48 pro clumn stand is all contained in one unit, breaks down in less then a minute, and less gear to carry. Although the the K&M mic boom has to be removed.. it's even better as the legs just fold up fast vs the Apex. BTW I also have the Best X stand made the Ultimate Support IQ-3000 brand new never used here if anyone is interested it's For Sale.

IQ-3000 X Stand

I don't disassemble mine. I just fold it flat (1 second) and put it in the back of my truck. It weighs maybe 5 pounds, even with the mic boom.
DonM

I learned that from Don 10 years ago. I no longer use the stand and sold it, but when I carried it around in a nylon sleeve it took forever to assemble.

I currently use a two-tier Quick-Loc stand has really served me well. No bouncing, fully adjustable and plenty room for pedals. And, it folds flat. The stand is constructed of welded steel, it holds up to 265 pounds, but it only weighs 20 pounds. It's probably the best built, strongest keyboard stand on the market today. When I bought mine, they were selling for $150, but now they can be had for $129 at Musician's Friend.





Gary

Thanks Don, but I checked my stock today. Luckily, there are at least 4 of them sitting there and tons of other shelving and parts. Back in the '90s, a friend who owned a music store and had an account with them ordered me about $1,000 worth of USS equipment ($1k bought a lot in those days). Glad I hung on to it all these years! The speaker stands alone are terrific!

Mark

Diki……you’re the last person I expected to hear that from!

Now.....I can’t believe my luck. I’m so glad you guys kept this thread going. I posted about the USS A-frame stands. I still had mine, but haven’t really looked at my stack of USS various parts.

So I got up this morning and a light bulb went off. I meandered through all the tubing and saw what I forget I had....a large model 4 tier stand where the “a-frame” was 55” instead of the standard 48”. I quickly realized ALL tubing was interchangeable. I dismantled the larger A-frame and used the 55” column as a shelf for my 76 note keyboard on the smaller A-frame stand.

I am so happy as, up to now, I had two problems: a good keyboard stand and a good case for my 76. This thread led me to “solving” problem #1.


I telephoned USS today and had a really friendly chat with the Customer Service person. We were discussing the old A-frames. One thing I didn’t know was that the “tubing” they used was “standard tubing” that I can buy locally. The only thing that you can’t buy anymore is the connecting knobs and other small bits and pieces.

She also said these stands are still in great demand as they get calls regularly from keyboardists looking for them. And that if you own one, they're worth quite a bit on Ebay or Craigslist.

As far as breakdown. I can set mine up or tear it down in 60 seconds. Maybe 70 seconds if I’m having a bad day. I don’t understand why it would take longer for anyone else. There are only 4 parts: 2 side frames and 2 shelves. They snap together effortlessly and the stand is as solid as the Rock of Gibralter.

As for "pedal space"......I'm talking unlimited space for big pedals, small pedals, volume pedals, wah-wah pedals, shoes, knees and probably even a coffee machine and an electric fan!

The key with the Apex stand...use a real keyboard and not a toy...a 56 pound MediaStation doesn't move..and I use it here with folks always coming up to me and leaning on the corner..

Obviously, Fran didn't learn much about the laws of physics when he was in high school or college. But that's OK, we still love him.

Gary

There's a reason cars have wheels at all four corners!

I don't know how wide is that central arm the Mediastation is resting on, but leaning on one end of a 56 pounder with a wide-ish centre of gravity wouldn't be that easy to topple endwise, unless it was a concerted push by said leaner. Anyone with knowledge of force physics, fulcrums, etc.?

124, it's the width of the legs that count - not the width of the keyboard arms. Fulcrum, etc.... Think about the roots of a tree, they extend out to the same distance of the farthermost branches. If they didn't the tree would topple in the slightest wind. Same principle.

Gary

Just came in,....super solid KB stand ..well built!
Will take it on stage for tonight Gig....

Donny, what was wrong with the old stand?

Gary my Apex 48 pro has served me very well thru the years but sadly it's seen better days and needed worn replacement parts are hard to find, also the "NEWLY" designed Apex pro 48 is a bit different. So I decided it was time for a change. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the K&M Spider or The Ultimate Support Apex 48 pro.

I was watching this video and decided to watch the "keyboard stand" also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tFy3kIYJ4BU#

I was thinking about what DIKI wrote above. I was very impressed with the support that stand gave. It never moved........for the first few minutes. Then it gave way as he hit those end keys.

I don't think for a second that the keyboard would go over, but that's got to interfere with your concentration when that bit of movement happens!

Mark, you're right. The stand seemed to wobble quite a bit when he was slamming the keys on the right side. However, I would suspect that any, single-post, keyboard stand would do the same, and as a player, that would bother the Hell out of me. I also noticed that the guy playing the keyboard was hunched over quite a bit, indicating that he was either really tall, or the keyboard stand was a bit too low for him - not sure which. Now, this shouldn't be a problem with DNJ because he sits down while performing.

For me, I'll stick with my heavy duty Quik Lok X-stand. It's solid as a rock, fully adjustable, not a prayer of tipping in any direction unless someone falls on it and folds flat in less than a second for easy transportation. And, Musician's Friend has them on sale for just $129, which is about $50 less than I paid a decade ago.



Cheers,

Gary

For the ultimate in support, basically, it's about as solid as a piano, the Quik-Lok WS550 http://www.quiklok.com/catalog/?p=productsMore&iProduct=27&sName=WS-550 is the best thing I have ever used.

It folds up quickly, but not into the most convenient shape (a sort of big 'T') and weighs in at 18 lbs.. With solid support at all four corners, basically bounce is a thing of the past.

It's only major drawback is that the legs don't micro adjust, just 8 height adjustment points, so if you find yourself on an uneven surface, a certain amount of support (beer mats always work well!) might be needed under one or two of the legs to get any wobble out.

Im lovin the K&M pro...super solid.

I wasn't even aware of a stand like this. If not for the height-adjustment deficiency (AND angle adjustment), I would consider this the world's most perfect stand because of the "pedal" space down below....and the clean aesthetics.

That height adjustment problem has to be a real "problem" though. I know on my A-frame stand I would be lost without the completely variable height positions.....and the "angle" as I play just slightly off of horizontal.

On my A-frame stand I have complete versatility....add as many tiers as I need, height and angle adjustment, and tons of floor space for any pedals...particularly if you're using bass pedals (I don't use bass pedals though).

On the plus sign, I'd use these Quick-Lok stands for anything that requires "horizontal" position only (DJ table, mixer, MP3 player, etc) ....much better and more professional than hoping to find a sturdy chair on the job!

P.S. It amazes me that with all the companies making all these stands that none of them (including Ultimate Support) thought about bringing back to life the A-frame stands. They're not for everyone, but I'm sure they'd sell enough of them to make it profitable. I can only conclude whoever designs these stands (including the lack of the height-adjustment on the Quick-Lok one)...they're definitely NOT keyboard players!

I used to use one years ago when I was playing multiple keyboards, and carrying all the related gear. I still have it in various stands I made from it(think Tinker Toys).

There is no question about it's versatility and support, but I found it too imposing in smaller venues, and I don't need all of space anymore. Then, there is the problem of it obstructing my view of the audience.

I cut off 6 inches off the K&B and now its perfect view 2 tiers same as I did with the Apex 48pro.. K&M is a great solid
KB stand.

Reading through all the posts on this thread.......my last comment.

Yes, the USS A-frame stands hinder your view of the audience somewhat (if you're sitting), but that's the price one pays for the protection it gives your keyboard. You could bump into that thing with an electric lawnmower and the whole frame will move but the keyboard will still be sitting on it's tier.

If you're playing for a dance crowd, no one is going to notice your stand anyway. Do a concert or a demo or any kind of an act under the spotlight and I WOULD definitely use one of the more "streamlined" stands.

I'm doing my level best to squeeze as much out of one keyboard that I possibly can, so the second tier isn't a big deal to me right now. I am strongly considering an iPad soon to carry all my PDF fakebooks around on, but I think it will rest quite well on the music stand the G70 comes with...

I'm fairly short to start with, so putting a bunch of stuff in front of me and blocking my eye contact with my crowd doesn't strike me as wise! It's hard enough to convince everyone you aren't doing karaoke nowadays, so having them easily see my hands, and how busy they are is the way to avoid much of that!

Today people arent stupid, they hear a full band and see 1 or two people playing something......to them its always automated "suedo" karaoke, or Pc tracks of some kind....no matter how you wanna spin it.