I had a gig on Saturday night that I booked by boasting to them about my new PA3x. I spent the whole of last week learning the functions, programming songs, setting up the instrument cominations, etc etc. I finished it all by Friday and when I went to review all my settings I found many of them had "vanished" and I was left with a PA3x almost in default mode. – By Mark

Mark, I can understand your frustration and disappointment. I agree with most of the statements that have been made, especially what about what the audience wants these days. But when you look at the amount of time Gary and others have spent on one keyboard and compare that to your statement above your chances of success on the job was not very good. One week???

Values:
1-Voice – the better you sing the more they like it. There was a time many years ago that I played one vocal to every 10 instrumentals, that’s gone.
2-Connecting with the audience: Always a winner., people just love to talk to the man performing.
3-Playing the right songs for the crowd that present.
4-Knowing your instrument well; being able to make a move without much thought – instinctively

My last thought; the keyboards today offer so much, but that creates a learning curve. The performer who spends the time understanding/learning his keyboard will have a far better sound and feel for our audience and ourselves. I am not against staying with older keyboards is not good but to say that they do the same job is not real.

A few years ago I used my Kn7000 on the job instead of my S900; same audience – same room – they noticed and complimented my instrument – but I know that keyboard very well- second nature I think they call it. I am now working on my Pa 800
All the major keyboards will do a great job if we spend the time – Diki made some very good points.

So our decision is not which keyboard; it’s what do I want? And what and how much am I willing to do? If singing so important, then how many of us have taken voice lessons?
B
ut it’s all really great fun, John C.

Right on, Don ... I am feeling pretty comfortable with the Pa600 now, but still nowhere near how I felt with the kn6000 ... BUT, truth is, I most likely have forgotten how many hours I spent on the technic forum with Alec Pagida (technicsplayer), Gunnar, BeBop and countless others learning how to use that wonderful board ... after 12 years or so I switch to KORG and expect to do the same things overnight ... it doesn't necessarily work that way ...

BTW ... I have a gig at an assisted living place today and the theme is "COUNTRY/WESTERN" ... hee-haw ...

I can only echo what Don said. Last week I performed for a large group of nursing home volunteers at a banquet. A man and his wife sitting in the front row about 10 feet away began whispering to each other while glancing my way. Over the years, slowly loosing my hearing, I've been able read lips to a minor degree. The guy said to his wife "It's not him singing - he's lip synching to MP3s." The song I was performing was Have You Heard by the Duprees, which requires the use of the vocal harmonizer. When I finished the song, I said, "Yes ladies and gentlemen, it's really me playing and really me singing." The guy said "Oh year, then where did you get those other, invisible singers?" At that point I had to provide the audience with a demonstration of how everything worked and sounded. They were amazed. And, I was amazed at the number of people that thought it was recorded music and I was just the DJ.

Good Luck,

Gary

The point is, ENJOY WHATEVER YOU PLAY! In any one week, I play a digital Yamaha piano, one of my old MS-60's, my little NP-30, a B-3, an XB-2 and a whole lot of stringed instruments.

It's challenging to remember the differences in real time.

R.

Hell, sometimes it's challenging to remember anything!

Gary

I have a very good friend who has been playing his T2 for about 8 years now. everything he does on it has been honed to perfection and he sounds terrific when he plays. My trumpet player, a music professor who has played all over the world, played a gig with him recently and told me "that's not him- he plays with discs or recorded music". I had to explain to him how that was not true and how many hours that he, and I, have to spend with our boards to make it sound like that.

It is very ironic that when we get to the point that we can sound like professional recordings, we get no credit for that from the audience that thinks its being "faked".

Mark, you've seen us play- maybe you have seen me "working the crowd" between sets, talking to everybody around the room and never really getting a chance to sit down with my guys for a break.

I agree that the Korg OS is deeper and more intricate than any other arranger. BUT... the price you pay is a formidable learning curve!

I've had and programmed some of the most complex synths and workstations ever made over the years, and I have to confess, the PA3x is right up there with the most difficult to fully understand and use. Simply the file structure is far more complex than necessary. As the OP points out, it is all too easy to delete work you have done and not know it, every separate element in the arranger has its own save screen and separate file structure. All well and good if you ARE a power user, but for the player coming from far less complex arrangers (particularly Roland and Yamaha), you are treading in a minefield at the start.

Personally, I prefer a far simpler structure... after all, why do we use arrangers in the first place? To make creating music live simpler! TBH, the idea of an arranger with the complexity of a full blown WS is a bit of an oxymoron!

IMO, the Korg's weakness (or strength, if you want power user flexibility!) is that each separate element can be saved independently. The voice edits can be saved as user voices, the style tweaks can be saved as user styles, multipads and samples, linked MP3's and SMF's, Songbook entries... all have a separate save structure. Roland don't use that. Everything gets saved to the one place, basically. This loses you a bit of flexibility. But it sure makes learning it all, saving it all (and not messing stuff up by accidentally overwriting a voice edit used in another song or style or performance, etc.!), and using it all a bit more intuitive.

Simple is good (up to a point!)

Vocals are important as well as a good drum beat. But the actual sounds are very important too needless to say. You want a piano sound to sound like a real piano. You want an organ to sound like a real B3 if possible. The list goes on. Higher end keyboards have superior sounds and authenticity is what should you should strive for. Whether a guitar, sax, clarinet, strings or any other sound in any other category, realism is the best insurance for a fabulous performance. Yes, good vocals are a must and superb vocals are even better. Good sounding Drum kits are actually necessary to produce that "good sounding drum beat" in a song.

I listened to some of the latest demos of the Roland BK-9 and, quite frankly, I'm more impressed the more I hear it. A fifteen year old Roland arranger simply cannot compete with today's Roland arrangers. Technology has vastly increased and that includes in the realm of sound realism. An audience likes good vocals and a good drum beat driven through an expensive sound system. They also no doubt appreciate instrument sounds that sound like the real thing if possible. A cheesy piano sound combined with a cheesy organ sound combined with a cheesy bass sound could end up backfiring and your audience possibly diminishing as a result.

Now if that fifteen year old Roland suits your audience then more power to you. We are in the 21st century and therefore authenticity of the instruments cannot be understated. Realism should be the goal. Whether vocals or "drum beat" or whatever.

All the best, Mike

When that 15 year old keyboard is a Roland g1000, I still would feel comfortable..

Our band still uses the MP3 backing tracks I made with the G1000...maybe 60 percent of our tracks are still G1000 based..

The biggest lacking sound is the better drums of the newer Rolands...but probably still on par with the competition's drums

I should redo the tracks with the G70 or even the BK5, but that is time consuming (we also record backing vocals)..The newer tracks would be hard to beat with my newer gear....but for now...15 year old Roland still covers the bases...

If you still have the multi-tracks from the least recording session, Fran, all you have to do is rerecord the MIDI Parts (I'd go with the BK-5 simply for the better drum kits) and mix in the vocals you already did. Doesn't seem much point doing them over, is there?

And Mike... You'd be amazed at how LITTLE the audience cares whether you have the latest, greatest, or an old 15 year old arranger. If you entertain them, it's job well done. Retro sounds dominate the charts, and audiences, unless presented with a nice simple A/B comparison, will happily listen to just about anything and say it sounds great (if you play it well!). Push comes to shove, I'd go out and gig on a G1000, and doubt I'd get ONE comment about how old it sounds!