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#362427 - 03/02/13 01:46 PM Is Brand loyalty important..
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
I believe it is...I do have a "Brand" loyalty..and for a reason...The company that I am most loyal to...has been consistantly top quality, featured layden, with the tools and sounds that I like best...I have used this brand as a benchmark, that I judge all other brands..

This is not to say the other brands do not make fine products...I just think across the board my favorite brand has been the leader in quality products..Have they had some products that I dislike...you bet, but overall far and away the best line up to me...

Brand loyalty makes sense, if you are confident in the company..
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#362430 - 03/02/13 02:47 PM Re: Is Brand loyalty important.. [Re: Fran Carango]
captain Russ Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7285
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
Fran, my favorite brand is Ketron. I have 2 Solton MS-60's still in use, a Midjay and an SD-5.

Love the sound, but will not do any business with the current distributor; especially with his representative(s).

From an ethics and support standpoint, these guys are pathetic.

Am looking now for a different brand.


Russ

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#362435 - 03/02/13 03:16 PM Re: Is Brand loyalty important.. [Re: Fran Carango]
FransN Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1415
Loc: Netherlands
Nothing wrong with brand loyalty. Korg is the King for me followed by Roland.

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#362436 - 03/02/13 03:16 PM Re: Is Brand loyalty important.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14194
Loc: NW Florida
No brand loyalty whatsoever. Anything that does exactly what I want it to do will be whatever I want to use. I've got keyboards by Yamaha, Roland, Korg, Kurzweil, Ensoniq, and have used most others at one time or another.

They are simply tools... Make a better mousetrap, and I won't worry about the logo on the case!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#362437 - 03/02/13 03:38 PM Re: Is Brand loyalty important.. [Re: Fran Carango]
abacus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/21/05
Posts: 5347
Loc: English Riviera, UK
Most items these days are not produced by the manufacture that has their name on the front, but by some sweat shop in China. (Or similar)

So in most cases the answer is NO.

Bill
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English Riviera:
Live entertainment, Real Ale, Great Scenery, Great Beaches, why would anyone want to live anywhere else (I�m definitely staying put).

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#362439 - 03/02/13 04:31 PM Re: Is Brand loyalty important.. [Re: abacus]
FransN Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1415
Loc: Netherlands
Originally Posted By: abacus
Most items these days are not produced by the manufacture that has their name on the front, but by some sweat shop in China. (Or similar)

So in most cases the answer is NO.

Bill


True. I will say it different. I am loyal to the brand I like the sounds and styles most and that is Korg followed by Roland smile

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#362440 - 03/02/13 05:02 PM Re: Is Brand loyalty important.. [Re: Fran Carango]
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
Nope...they are not loyal to us, and loyalty is a two-way street

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#362448 - 03/02/13 06:47 PM Re: Is Brand loyalty important.. [Re: Fran Carango]
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
Russ, you NEED a PA3X!
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DonM

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#362449 - 03/02/13 07:20 PM Re: Is Brand loyalty important.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
In short....NO

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#362452 - 03/02/13 08:34 PM Re: Is Brand loyalty important.. [Re: DonM]
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 12800
Loc: Penn Yan, NY
Originally Posted By: DonM
Russ, you NEED a PA3X!

Sell it, baby ... sell it!
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No longer monitoring this forum. Please visit www.daveboydmusic.com for contact info

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#362457 - 03/02/13 10:03 PM Re: Is Brand loyalty important.. [Re: Fran Carango]
jamman Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 666
Loc: City of Angels in the golden s...
No. Fanboism was for young stating musicians affected by certain incidents which (or that carries to older age due to some flashbacks) or against their musical enemies' gear at that time.especially if a musician is forced to choose one due to the budget.(

Fender vs Gibson /
Model to brand loyalty /competition - DX7 vs M1 vs D50/ TRITON vs MOTIF/ TYROS vs PAxX the list goes on.

In arranger and SMF playeback world ,Roland definitely ruled the early 90's due to GM/GS (all commercially avail SMFs are written thru Sound Canvas (mainly SC55 which had both PCM and some minor LA syn).

If you were an OMB and had play arranger and SMF professionally in the early 90's no one can deny the success of E86 which had a floppy drive (released after complaints about E70 which hasn't ).E86 had direct disk play and direct new style from disk play which the mighty Korg I3 couldn't ( you have to load SMF and new styles and it takes time which was unpractical for OMB player with dancing audience on the floor.

Yes it was way before (G1000- SC88 board).Trust me ,because I lived through all those.

Korg woke up and immediately put SMF direct play to their new I4s (same sound source but ,can't write own styles like i3),they also put in great speakers but was way heavy,wasn't a hit .i5s and the rest up to I30 cam after before the mellinium and Pa80.

G1000 was a hit.Roland did hit and miss with subsequent arrangers Exxx series and low end Gs.

Yamaha 's arranger funtionality wasn't no where near their other rivals .Korg I3 (1993 korg i3 had 4 variations -even late 90's Psr 8000 had only 2).Better sound quality of Euro Keyboards like Solton (ketron) and GEM weren't having mega success.Technics was doing great in pro arranger world yet did not have accessory power of the mighty three.

The game changed again in year 2000. Successful PA 80 and more successful PSR 2000 -priced at $1200 (after dissapointment of 9000 pro),it was an instant hit for western (us/uk) arranger players. Oriental versions of both Roland and korg already made great 3rd party support in the 90's). Wasn't the case with Yamaha. A 1200$ keyboard with VH drew a lot of attention to home players and starting pros alike. The third party support grew from there.

Ketron in other hand has been given limited access to most of the world due to several reasons that you know.

To sum it up, all KBs has their hits and misses.it's all about making profit and occasionally you will have a hit due to good hard ware/sound and relative portability - dx7 in the early to mid 80's, m1 in late 90's,01w and k2000 in early 90's, jv 1080 in mid 90's,Triton in the late to early 2000's and so on.

They are just tools. I would love to have all the great keyboards regardless of their brand. So, no.No royalty because it's not a person.It's a brand run by a corporation managed by good and bad/smart and dumb people.you may be lucky once in awhile but never always.

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#362460 - 03/03/13 12:02 AM Re: Is Brand loyalty important.. [Re: jamman]
jamman Offline
Member

Registered: 08/24/04
Posts: 666
Loc: City of Angels in the golden s...
Originally Posted By: jamman
m1 in late 90's,01w and k2000 in early 90's, jv 1080 in mid 90's,Triton in the late to early 2000's and so on.



I meant M1 in late 80's,early 90's and Tritons (1999) in early 2000's.

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#362464 - 03/03/13 01:28 AM Re: Is Brand loyalty important.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Daniel_C Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/23/12
Posts: 23
I love the classic Korg sounds and have used a lot of their gear (M1,Trinity Plus, X5d , N264) and I currently have an X50 at home , but for my gigs I bought a Juno Di and Fantom XA from Roland , and by using korg samples on the XA I have the best of both worlds, including sounds from the DX7, D-50, Technics organ, and SQ80 , you´ve gotta buy what´s best for you.
_________________________
My current gear: Fantom XA, Juno Di, Korg X50 . I have used: Korg N264 , X5D , Trinity Plus.

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#362465 - 03/03/13 02:12 AM Re: Is Brand loyalty important.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Bernie9 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5508
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
All of the major brands have features I prefer, but alas, none have them all. Therefore, I choose the one with the most at any given time.

In short- NO
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact

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#362467 - 03/03/13 03:56 AM Re: Is Brand loyalty important.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 7143
If i have 500 performances/styles that i use professionally, upgrading to a compattible system and thus sticking to the same brand might be a very wise decission. I would hate the tought of starting all over again with every new keyboard i buy if i where a professional player.

As a hobby player however, its part of the joy getting new hardware and exploring it, thats 2 totally different views.
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Yamaha Genos, Roland Jupiter 80, Ipad pro.

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#362477 - 03/03/13 06:31 AM Re: Is Brand loyalty important.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
I think Roland lost many of their BRAND Loyalist arranger players when they dropped their TOTl G70 years ago...what a slap in the face to dedicated brand loyal owners who now have drifted to Yamaha or Korg, Ketron,etc, and will never return, leaving them with a much lesser featured MOTL Bk7/5 arranger.Who knows what they were thinking?,.. but as usual money and profits leads the decision every time Roland is no exception. Will they ever return with a TOTL unit who knows? But IMO you gotta live for today and use what gear is available no matter who makes it as long as if serves YOUR needs. The dinosaur G70 will have some brand loyalists all these years later but I'm sure inside they are pissed and wonder what the heck happened that they never kept going with their TOTL arranger KB's.. Roland has given me and many others many years of super gear, but alas they have gone in another direction now never listening to their arranger KB customer base,...
I wish them luck, but my brand loyalty is else where.
I am happy there are many choices and alternatives, looks like Roland doesn't care about their customers so why should they.

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#362482 - 03/03/13 06:57 AM Re: Is Brand loyalty important.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 9673
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Here is a view of why Roland fans will return (those that have left)...The company has always released products with advanced features and sounds...at more reasonable pricing than the competition..and trys to maintain a quality that the other brands do not..with the exception of Ketron..
_________________________
www.francarango.com



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#362486 - 03/03/13 07:23 AM Re: Is Brand loyalty important.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Originally Posted By: Fran Carango
Here is a view of why Roland fans will return (those that have left)...The company has always released products with advanced features and sounds...at more reasonable pricing than the competition..and trys to maintain a quality that the other brands do not..with the exception of Ketron..


And when is this earth shattering return going to happen, technology just keeps on going very quickly?
Doesn't look like it at this time,....but I hope your right in years to come if at all.

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#362487 - 03/03/13 07:23 AM Re: Is Brand loyalty important.. [Re: Fran Carango]
john smies Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/05/00
Posts: 1384
Loc: koudekerke, Holland.
Originally Posted By: Fran Carango
Here is a view of why Roland fans will return (those that have left)...The company has always released products with advanced features and sounds...at more reasonable pricing than the competition..and trys to maintain a quality that the other brands do not..with the exception of Ketron..




which Testament is this Fran that you are quoting from, The Old Testament or even one prior to that whose existence we are not aware off ?
I know you love your Roland stuff and I wish you well with it,but " brand loyalty " ? , whatever made you decide to spend a threat on such an item...............

regards,
John

P.S. NO, definitely NO

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#362489 - 03/03/13 07:32 AM Re: Is Brand loyalty important.. [Re: jamman]
rphillipchuk Online   content
Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 657
Loc: Ontario Canada
Originally Posted By: jamman
No. Fanboism was for young stating musicians affected by certain incidents which (or that carries to older age due to some flashbacks) or against their musical enemies' gear at that time.especially if a musician is forced to choose one due to the budget.(

Fender vs Gibson /
Model to brand loyalty /competition - DX7 vs M1 vs D50/ TRITON vs MOTIF/ TYROS vs PAxX the list goes on.

In arranger and SMF playeback world ,Roland definitely ruled the early 90's due to GM/GS (all commercially avail SMFs are written thru Sound Canvas (mainly SC55 which had both PCM and some minor LA syn).

If you were an OMB and had play arranger and SMF professionally in the early 90's no one can deny the success of E86 which had a floppy drive (released after complaints about E70 which hasn't ).E86 had direct disk play and direct new style from disk play which the mighty Korg I3 couldn't ( you have to load SMF and new styles and it takes time which was unpractical for OMB player with dancing audience on the floor.

Yes it was way before (G1000- SC88 board).Trust me ,because I lived through all those.

Korg woke up and immediately put SMF direct play to their new I4s (same sound source but ,can't write own styles like i3),they also put in great speakers but was way heavy,wasn't a hit .i5s and the rest up to I30 cam after before the mellinium and Pa80.

G1000 was a hit.Roland did hit and miss with subsequent arrangers Exxx series and low end Gs.

Yamaha 's arranger funtionality wasn't no where near their other rivals .Korg I3 (1993 korg i3 had 4 variations -even late 90's Psr 8000 had only 2).Better sound quality of Euro Keyboards like Solton (ketron) and GEM weren't having mega success.Technics was doing great in pro arranger world yet did not have accessory power of the mighty three.

The game changed again in year 2000. Successful PA 80 and more successful PSR 2000 -priced at $1200 (after dissapointment of 9000 pro),it was an instant hit for western (us/uk) arranger players. Oriental versions of both Roland and korg already made great 3rd party support in the 90's). Wasn't the case with Yamaha. A 1200$ keyboard with VH drew a lot of attention to home players and starting pros alike. The third party support grew from there.

Ketron in other hand has been given limited access to most of the world due to several reasons that you know.

To sum it up, all KBs has their hits and misses.it's all about making profit and occasionally you will have a hit due to good hard ware/sound and relative portability - dx7 in the early to mid 80's, m1 in late 90's,01w and k2000 in early 90's, jv 1080 in mid 90's,Triton in the late to early 2000's and so on.

They are just tools. I would love to have all the great keyboards regardless of their brand. So, no.No royalty because it's not a person.It's a brand run by a corporation managed by good and bad/smart and dumb people.you may be lucky once in awhile but never always.



That was a nice read !!!
_________________________
Yamaha DGX-670, Yamaha MW12, Yamaha MSP10's, Yamaha SW10 Subwoofer.

Styles
Yamaha Styles Only
Midi Safe



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#362513 - 03/03/13 12:49 PM Re: Is Brand loyalty important.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14194
Loc: NW Florida
Maybe the OP is confusing 'brand loyalty' with 'brand preference'?

I must confess, since the RA90, Roland's have been the only arrangers I have used. I've used lots of other stuff but none as an arranger.

Most of it boiled down to Roland's dominance during the early 90's with the products based around the Sound Canvas series. If you used SMF's, you used a Roland. And, wanting to multi-task, I figured out an arranger product that was based around the Sound Canvas could do both... This went on all the way to the G1000, arguably Roland's best arranger ever. After that, things changed, with often more being dropped (like the Chord Sequencer) than added (and some of the additions, like Vari-Phrase technology were of little practical use).

So I stuck to my G1000 for about ten years until the G70 came out. V-Drum kits, the amazing GrandX from the FantomX, the VK organ sim, touch screen, sliders, and the brilliant Makeup Tools editing system... it was time to move on. The only serious competition to it at the time was the PA2X, and it still hadn't drawn equal to Roland in SMF playback, had some weird fill issues, and wasn't equipped with as good a selection of styles (though those it had were great). Yamaha refused to bring out a professional 76 (9000pro had issues and I didn't like the sound) so removed themselves from the field of battle, never to return. SD-1 had the same lack of styles issue that Korg had.

So... my choices were limited. I stuck with Roland not out of fanboism, but simply because it was the only choice that did all I wanted at the time.

Fast forward to last year, and I wanted an arranger/SMF/MP3 player in a module form to go with my remote keyboard, and my choices were the hugely expensive Ketron (with all it's style shortage and lack of editing capabilities) or the affordable BK-7m, which was most of my G70's soundset, plus a whole bunch more. No-brainer!

So I've been a Roland 'preference' guy for 20 years or so. But not for lack of looking!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#362515 - 03/03/13 01:00 PM Re: Is Brand loyalty important.. [Re: Diki]
sparky589 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 1461
Loc: NJ
I've always been a ketron sound module guy (A2000, MS40, (2) X-4's,SD3) but their pricing is now a bit high...I'm getting a lot from my Korg now.

I think familiarity with the navigation keeps some with the same brand. I showed a friend mine but he was immediately stumped with Korg's operation and will not part from Yamaha.

Of course I'd want to know when Russ's SD5 goes on the block...
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The older I get, the better I was..

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#362523 - 03/03/13 01:52 PM Re: Is Brand loyalty important.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14194
Loc: NW Florida
That's the price you pay for all that Korg flexibility... A pretty arcane OS to anyone coming from anywhere else.

You can save globals, styles, Performances, multi-pads, samples, voice edits, you name it. But all separately other than the Global.

One area I always thought Korg could improve is all that saving. Kurzweil's have a great system where you can save simply a Global. But... if you just want to load a voice, or a sample, or a multi-sample, or everything you need for just ONE performance, you can look INSIDE the Global file, and all the constituent parts are there. It's a great system to make backup easy, but detailed retrieval simple.

Korg would do well to look at this.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#362531 - 03/03/13 02:19 PM Re: Is Brand loyalty important.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Korg would have to totally redesign the OS to change the File system the now use in arrangers....All Kbs should have a simple ONE BUTTON SAVE to HD/USB/folders, performances, registrations,etc. right on deck...just make changes and SAVE period and that's while playing also without a glitch!


Edited by Dnj (03/03/13 02:20 PM)

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#362552 - 03/04/13 07:59 AM Re: Is Brand loyalty important.. [Re: Fran Carango]
montunoman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/20/09
Posts: 3208
Loc: Dallas, Texas
No loyalty at all. I feel there some outstanding features on all the major manufactures keyboards and if I could afford it I’d have a couple of TOTL and even MOTL keyboards. But in reality I would hate to have to figure all those operating systems- that would not be time well spent. I feel pretty comfortable with my Tyros 2 despite not 100% satisfied with the sound of the drums and styles. If I were to get a Korg, Roland or Ketron I’d probably be satisfied with the drums/styles but not so much with the RH sounds. Plus learning a new OS would be a huge PITA… I rather spend my time working on my musicianship.
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#362565 - 03/04/13 11:08 AM Re: Is Brand loyalty important.. [Re: Fran Carango]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14194
Loc: NW Florida
Yes... that's basically my approach. I really don't feel the need to lug multiple arrangers to a gig, so at the moment (and especially since the manufacturers make it impossible to 'link' any two together properly) I can't combine the best of two worlds or more.

But I must confess, my priorities are the exact opposite of yours, montuno. I tend to think that the RH sounds are more about what I play, and less about the sheer accuracy of the sound (a great performance can overcome a less than stellar sound), but the drums and styles, I have little to no control over. THOSE are the ones that I must have good, or all my RH work is wasted (to a degree). But both approaches work...
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#362566 - 03/04/13 11:15 AM Re: Is Brand loyalty important.. [Re: Fran Carango]
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
+1

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