It strikes me that it would not be that hard to code an app for the iPad (or a Windows tablet, whatever) to add a Chord Sequencer to any arranger out there.

Basically, all it has to do is slave to the arranger's tempo clock (easy), receive the NTA (notes to arranger) channel from the arranger, and loop the MIDI recording and play it back when the Play button is hit. Hardly as complicated as a full sequencer...

I'm pretty sure this would sell very well. Anyone know anyone doing MIDI app development for iPad or other devices?

I have been hunting this for some time Diki, including speaking with developers. Also along the same lines, it is essentially midi data only etc etc etc..

They all have said with the cost of developing apps of this nature being anywhere between $5,000 to 10,000 and the prospect of returns so low for such a "specific" market, that they could not be bothered to do it off their own bat...

However if a "Kickstarter" scheme were suggested, perhaps a developer may have an interest.

None of the current software arranger developers have any time to port versions to iOS.

As Abacus has pointed out, you could always get the developer SDK packages (requires registration and sign-up, but is free) and start writing your own..but fair warning, it is far FAR more difficult than it first looks. Believe me I have already tried...WAY above my level of mathematics and logic

Dennis

There already is an app for Ipad that can be programmed with just chords for the arrangers - "Mobile Music Sequencer" by Yamaha.

I have it and am using it with my S950 - and it will play the chords right into the keyboard triggering any selected style.

Works a treat

Bill G

Then it needs little to accept those chords on the fly, and spit them right back...

And look guys... I'm no programmer. Kind of an absurd suggestion for me to write one. If you have a gripe about your (or anyone else's!) arranger, I wouldn't be so daft as to suggest you design one yourself..! Yikes!

@ Diki, tongue in cheek my man!!

And I wouldn't expect anyone who plays a Roland to be able to get to grips with something as modern as the iOS system.......

Dennis

LOL... Abacus the first to suggest it...

Don't forget, Roland are releasing FREE iOS apps to help control the BK series. Now, where's that iOS app for the Korg? LOL

I hear ya Diki....and it was for that reason it was certainly tempting to look at a BK 7 again, or a BK 5 - Although the coming MuiskMesse will be VERY interesting, with maybe a teaser a month earlier

A shame that Korg have several iPad apps and instruments, but no editors as such...

Dennis

Thing is, Dennis, there isn't even a regular OS Chord sequencer app. So no chance of porting anything. Strange, considering how many utility and editor apps HAVE been user made for Yamaha's, Roland's, maybe even Korg's (don't know too much about Korg software). No-one yet has thought about a simple MIDI looper app.

Another app for iOS that might be useful is a very simple 'One take and save' MIDI Recorder for the BK series Roland's, which have no onboard sequencing or even a dumb one take recorder.

Oops my bad Diki...I totally misread your OP- You said chord sequencer NOT an arranger....

In this case I retract all my comments as they were related to ARRANGER apps.

Yes I agree with you now. As there are several midi apps that are very VERY capable midi sequencers, it is no stretch to have them include the ability to record the midi chord data input for later playback to an arranger - in fact they should be able to record directly from any arranger engine that has correct midi protocols (and that's all of them afaik)

Dennis

The PA3x already has almost every triggerable option hardwired on the front panel already!

The real trick with CS apps is to be able to chop off the live input at the 'Play' boundary. In other words, if you are still holding down the chord, as far as the CS app is concerned, it ends at the bar boundary.

A CS has a few significant differences to a sequencer. On the one hand, it's really only ever dealing with one channel's input (the NTA channel) and outputting one channel, but it has to do a little bit of housework to tidy up the input once the loop is determined. And with a CS, the loop length isn't decided until the users SAYS so! But I still don't see how it wouldn't be anything difficult for someone capable of a normal sequencing app.

I once tried to find out whether Ableton Live could be used, as it has a live audio looper, and MIDI capability, but I could never get a response from Tech Support or the forum. Anyone know a Live 'power user'?

No midi support of this type until Live 9 afaik DIki. I currently have live 8, but have never really used it apart from doodling, for this very reason. I am waiting on 9 to be released so I can upgrade.

Live is part of my new "strategy" re playing "style" type backing tracks, but not using styles per se...

Dennis

Keep me posted, then Dennis. As soon as it can loop MIDI like it loops audio, we are good to go.

Sure will

I also think you are seeing where I am going with this too Cool!

D

I am now adding the Chord Sequencer to vArranger.

Diki. Is 2 buttons are OK?

One for REC and one for PLAY?

You really need three. Record, Play, Stop.

Then there are other considerations, like if you play anything in the Chord Recognition area, does it get ignored, does it get added to the sequence, or does it over-ride it..?

TBH, as well as adding it to vArranger, a simple standalone app that would do it to incoming MIDI and simply spit out the sequence on a User designated NTA channel would, I think, sell very well to people that already have hardware arrangers...

Why 3 buttons?

The Record button, can be pressed again to stop the recording
The Play button, can be pressed again to stop the chord sequence, and give back the control of the chords to the player.

In my view, if you play in the chord recognition, while the chord sequence is currently playing, it get ignored, but play the left hand sound .

That's the way Roland did it, that's the way Korg do it. I guess, if you wanted to, one button could do it ALL, with double taps. But it is simpler, and less confusing, if there's a button for each function.

Generally, you hit Record to start the recording, then you hit Play to go into the loop. But if you need to play a bridge or something before you need the loop, you hit Stop. Then you hit Play when you needed the loop. And either Record to start a new loop or Stop if you wanted to go to you being in control.

Mostly, and with screen real estate being a non factor, I'd go with what is the simplest route. Plus, it's what they are used to doing.

I AGREE - 2 is great, if they work that way. Sometimes, you may record a sequence that you don't intend to use right away, so you can wait till it comes around and start when you're ready. I'm not sure if the old Rolands did this, but on the new Korg - after you record a sequence, you can even turn off the split point ans solo with the entire keyboard. That's pretty cool for piano type solos, or organ swipes.

OK thank you.
the vArranger Chord sequencer is almost done now...

I don't think it matters either way...whatever the system, 2 or 3 buttons, it is still a great feature, and will be easily useable.

Dennis

I'm simply a big believer in single function buttons, especially when they are virtual, and don't add to the cost of a hardware arranger.

I've got plenty to do simply playing. Anything that makes me go 'Did I hit that already?' gets in the way.

Graphically, it would be nice if the Chord Sequencer Rec button would flash red while it was in record mode... and maybe Play flash green while playing. Visual cues for what is going on are SO helpful on stage...

Oh, and if at all possible, please allow a user defined CC# for each function. If you have a controller keyboard or MIDI pedals, being able to do this from the musical keyboard (or your feet) rather than either hit a tablet screen or a key combination (on your laptop's keyboard) is optimal.

Everything else is assignable to a USB controller Diki in vA..I cannot see why the CS would be any different

And Dan has set it up so any novice can do it...simply connect the USB controller, select the parameter you want to control, and then "push the button, turn the knob or press the switch" and vA automatically maps it to that controller...I know it is merely the "Midi Learn" function that we have all become accustomed to, but it is nice he programmed it that way noentheless.

Dennis

Yes, you can assign every feature of varranger to a midi controller.

Look at this video, you will understand.



This is the new LED feedback control too...

WTG Dan.....very interesting inch by inch Varranger gets better and better ....Thanx for sharing.

So only USB controllers? Or can MIDI be mapped, too?

USB controllers ARE MIDI controllers, but going on USB ports.

vArranger accepts to be controlled by any MIDI (or USB/MIDI) messages including SYSEX, Program Change, Notes, Control change....

Any PC keyboard (including bluetooth wireless KB)

and even... PC Joystick like this
http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/xbox-360-wireless-controller-for-windows

Actually, quite a few USB controllers have no MIDI out jacks these days. All well and good if you are going the computer route entirely, but quite a problem if you want to control a combination of MIDI hardware and computer software...

Do you think the chord sequencer should QUANTIZE the chords when they are replayed?

Probably a good idea Dan, but make it a function that a user can choose to use or not...sometimes a user may want an odd timing, although I have always found PC quantizing to be less than optimal, even when "groove" based as those on Sonar and other DAW software are...

But I still think it would be a useful function

Dennis

It's a handy option, but needs user control, per Performance. User needs to be able to select 1/4 note, 1/8th note, 1/8th note swing, 1/16th note and swing version (for those really slow tunes!) at best.

It might be nice to have a 'post quantize' button, so you can pick and choose, but no hardware CS has had this feature yet.

Personally, I have always wanted a quantize option to help with making MIDI files from arranger output. Get the timing a hair off, and you get swamped with all those little 'glitch' notes and portamento commands to pop the 'wrong' note up to the 'right' pitch.

Might as well, while you're at it, see if the Chord Sequence can be saved, and Linked to a Performance (or Songbook entry). That's something everybody keeps asking for over at Korg's forum.