Bottom line about programming your own styles is, can you actually play everything on keyboards well? I mean, good drum parts with dynamics and feel, bass parts with swing and snap, guitar parts that sound like guitar players, horn lines that would fool a horn player?

If the answer is no, don't waste too much time (unless you are having fun anyway!) on it.

If you are from the old school, and used to do your own sequencing of whole songs, played all the parts, did the drum programming, and they came out pretty well, then probably yes... it's doable.

But probably the fastest way to create fresh sounds for yourself is to try mixing and matching. Grab Drums from one style, the bassline from another, horns from something else, mix and match... I know Ian is a big fan of this.

Admittedly, there's a REALLY cool feature on Roland's (the older E/G series, anyway) called Cover Tools, where with one button, the entire selection of sounds of the style could be changed from say rock band to acoustic jazz, or Latin to Techno. Even if the results weren't perfect every time, whenever something cool shows up, you can Freeze the parameters and save it as another style, then use this in Mix and Match on other styles too.

I really regret that Roland dropped this feature on the BK series. Once again, Roland demonstrate they can't recognize a useful function even if they invent it themselves! I really sometimes wonder if Roland fire their entire Arranger R&D staff every 3-5 years, to make sure there is NO continuity!

But Cover Tools combined with Mix and Match can stretch a LOT of variety out of even just a few good styles...

I would have to say YES.., it really is that easy. Creating styles isn't as difficult as many seem to think, and Bert IMO showed how easily it can be done.

Are you going to be able to create styles as good as the presets? Most likely not, but that doesn't mean you cannot create really good sounding styles. You just have to LEARN how to use the keyboards style sequencer.

I see people commenting on how Bert just created ONE variation. Creating the next three variations of the first is not a difficult task. Keep in mind that there are features ALREADY BUILT INTO your arrangers designed specificually to simplify style creation, and speed up the process. You can create one variation and simply copy the parts of that one variation to the next and make changes to it. The ability to copy your parts is a HUGE time saver.

Don't like your timing, well tackle it with quantizing. Don't want it to sound "robotic".., just lower the quantize strength. You have trouble making the guitar tracks, well copy the guitar part from a preset style and BAM! it's done.

The tools are already there in your keyboard. You just have to learn how to use them. The most difficult part of style creation would likely be the fills, but it just takes a little practice to get those done.

IMO the biggest benefit of the style sequencers (if your board has it) is the ability to swap parts between styles, and copying previously recorded parts. Swapping parts saves you a lot of time because many styles have guitar/bass/chord/drum parts that cover most everything, and you can save some serious time using parts from other styles that would normally be difficult to play from the keys. Plus you can even spice up a style using a part from another style that you wouldn't normally consider using. The options are endless.

I suggest that if you really want to record your own styles.., dig out that manual, blow the dust off of it, and start reading You'll be surprised at what all you can do, and may not be aware of tools that are already in your arranger that are there to HELP you and make the job EASIER

Right on the money, Squeak. Copying from your first created Variation does save a lot of time.
My first foray into style creation was when the tools were primitive compared to today's Style Creators...I had to play in the parts, as there were no other options.

It is surprising how efficient part swapping can be...I even take parts out of a Swing type style, and use them in an 8 beat, using the Style Creator's Groove function to make the parts match up.

And that very same Groove function is also pretty handy in changing 8 beats to swings and shuffles, or 16 beat or even 6/8 feel...and you don't have to do all the style parts, so you can have one style start in straight 8 beat and change to a swing feel on certain variations, and one intro/ending swing while another doesn't...there are lots of possibilities.

The fills, although sometimes hard for most people can easily be procured from an existing donor style that is close, and then edit to suit your needs.

The beauty of using Style Assembly (or part swapping, if you prefer) is that the parts are already set for note range, triggering style, and full chord recognition, which is why I tend to use it more than playing in the parts...let's face it, there are hundreds (if not thousands) of styles we can use to base our new style on.

Like any other feature on the keyboard, the more you use style creator features, the more comfortable (and more adventurous) you become with it.

Ian

PS...what keyboards are you presently using?

Ian, my arranger is the PSR-S700. My synth is the Roland Juno-Di. I've moved away from the all in one synth workstation and now use my Juno-Di with a DAW. It's also used as a midi controller too. The Di covers A LOT of music and coupled with a DAW, it's a great composition tool.

I also use the Beat Thang Virtual for creating hip hop and other modern styles. The Di makes a great midi controller for this. Plus I still have my trusty old Roland RS-70. We're attached at the hip I guess. I think I've had that synth now for at least 10 years. Its got a broken key that's taped down, and I still use it.

My answer is yes, this is doable for me.

Let me say it this way...I might not be any different than any of you other than I haven't lost the desire to create new styles, songs, harmonies, melodies, lyrical phrases, solos and etc. I will continue to play even if I never sold a record, album, CD, MP3 or whatnot. Music is so vast and wide, there is always something to learn or a new way of doing things in music.

Right now I mostly use sequencers for new music creation but I am not as proficient with it as I would like to be. I use arranger keyboards both with other musicians and by myself in live settings. There is no good substitute for playing with other good musicians...but in the past my arrangers would manage the job. Making more of my own styles would help fill that void...and my own styles don't show up late, call in sick, or demand more money than they previously agreed to.

While growing more and more familiar with arranger keyboards, I don't want to settle for just playing someone else's styles or music . In the past I have played drums, guitar, bass guitar, and a few other instruments. Even some of the best styles leave something to be desired. Whether you want to further customize a style or create a new style, arranger keyboards have the functionality to perform the job. BUT...For whatever reason, each of the "Big 3" have gone out of their way to make programming/creating a style a little more difficult than it should be IMHO.

Bert's demo made me believe that maybe Yamaha was adapting to a new way of thinking. I have already created many drums loops and fills with a keyboard or my Roland TD4 midi'ed into the CPU or an arranger. I am also looking to purchase a USB guitar just to further spice up some previously created styles. I just see the arranger keyboard as the best of both worlds in that I can play live and create new music without being stuck to record in a "linear" sequencer fashion.

Years back I thought about getting the EMC styles program but something made me feel uneasy about it. I don't want to spend $4000-$5000 on a Tyros or PA3x when the PSR S-950 can do most of what I need. Although I was impressed with the PA500, it never left the house. The PA600 seems impressive but will it remind me of the PA500?

Many of you prove that MOTL arrangers can be used in a live setting but I am not reading where many of you are creating original styles or new music on your arrangers...and it might not be your fault.

Maybe if making styles were easier, perhaps we'd all feel 10 years younger...

I must agree that making styles from scratch, as shown by Bert, will be beyond the skills (or interest) of many people, and also, some of us get lazy when there are lots of styles available for purchase or sharing.

At my follow-up clinics, I have managed to teach quite a few people how to use Style Assembly, which is probably the easiest way to make a style your own...some stayed with it, and others tended to drift away and become complacent and forgot how.

But it is teachable and doable.

Many of us who have worked with multi-tracking, be it via tape recorders or the later digital sequencers, can manage a bit better with putting in parts, but usually there's a section that might give us trouble, be it bass lines, drums, strums, piano parts, and this is where the swapping of parts is very helpful.

Stylemakers for the Big 3 use special sequencing programs and download..they never program on the instrument...I doubt if these programs will be made available to the public...I have actually asked about them several years ago, but was told they were not available. Of course, some people buy whole new arrangers just to get more variations of styles they already have...so I suppose style making on the instrument could be just hard enough so that only a few can manage, or bother, with them, as arrangers must be sold to keep the profits up, the company stays in business to make more new ones, and the beat goes on.

I think I've managed to get out of the loop with my present arranger, a Tyros4...and I'm planning to stay out.

I actually enjoy making my own styles, or should that be, making styles my own?

Ian

Roland really should hire you Diki. You could really pull a new arranger together for them using all the features they have used in the past. I know how frustrating it must be for you to see them abandon features that are so important to arranger players ... especially when they have already spent R&D dollars developing them.

I really hope a Roland rep reads this thread and contacts you. You certainly have my recommendation. I know you could help them develop a killer arranger keyboard.

Well you all seem impressed by Bert’s performance on creating styles; however demonstrators were showing users exactly the same way when backing units first came out in the 80s, so personally I can’t see what all the fuss is about.

Ian

The only difference between a standard sequencer and a style sequencer of the big 3, is a database of the loops, possibility’s available with the available arranger technology and mapping of sounds, (Not forgetting the program to convert Midi to the style format) so is nothing special at all. (That they won’t give it to you just creates more mystic about something any sequencer user can do)

Bill

Hi all,

On the Audya, you can start with a blank style, choose any audio drum, which automatically takes care of drum intros, endings, breaks & fills.

Next, choose an audio bass by only scrolling through the hundreds of audio loops available, slightly different one for each variation. Also automatically takes care of all fill ins.

Exactly the same with ALL the other style tracks, EVERY single one of them. Just highlight, scroll, listen & select. Hundreds of loops available for each track.

On top of this, all of those instruments will play different loops for different chords without you having to do a thing...

I bet one could create a COMPLETE Audya style in less time it takes to create only one variation on the Yamaha & it will sound super professional as the pre-recorded loops takes care of that!

Hey guys, I'm so sorry if the reality hurts (don't worry, I'm only playing with your emotions as always...)

Keep well all my friends,

Henni

Sorry to disappoint you Henni but you have been able to do this on keyboards since the 80s using Mid loops/tracks, the only difference between the Audya and others is that you also have audio loop/tracks available to you, and can easily scroll through a list rather than having to manually select it..

Bill