If you are hot to trot over the new PA600 I have decided to keep my MicroArranger and sell the PA600.
It is a good keyboard but I neither have the time nor desire
to take on the task of "tweaking" styles and sounds to get what
I need from it.

Email me if you have an interest in it.

Deane

Sorry to hear of your dilemma Deane. I read over on the Korg PA forum the RH voices on the PA600 were set up from the factory at +1 Octave. For your style of playing +1 Octave made the sound out of range for the instrument if I understood the situation correctly. If you have to tweak most if not all of the sounds individually it would be quite a task. I wonder if Korg realizes the scope of their decision to give RH voices a +1 Octave designation. I imagine others may be inclined to forgo the PA600 if they realized the situation beforehand. An arranger should be set up from the factory where you don't have to spend hours or days or weeks tweaking things to get it to sound the way you want. Of course some people's style of playing would be suited for the +1 Octave RH voice setting especially when splitting up the keyboard. To each his own. Sorry it didn't work out for you.

All the best, Mike

No offence, but I do rather think you are throwing the baby out with the bathwater here Deane!!!

Yes there is a little bit of work, but if you are not interested in changing these sorts of settings on a "per style" basis, you can lock them out in the Global menus so that when a style is loaded, whatever preferences you set up in the Performance 1 bank 1, and the Global Style Preferences will apply to ALL styles you select.

In the short term this would get around some of the issues you are experiencing so you can jump in and use styles, whilst slowly but surely over time actually physically editing all the styles to suit yourself...

Yes the Yamaha arrangers ARE set up with a far more rigid and some would say balanced structure, but they are targeted at a different market somewhat...That is NOT a criticism at all, just an observation...

I have never noticed the voicing being factory preset to an octave higher on any Korg arranger, there are plenty set to an octave lower to compensate for the split at C4, but I have not come across those that are set higher.

Maybe it is a new thing from Korg programmers for the PA600? I cannot see it myself and one needs to bear in mind the HUGE number of owners on the Korg forums who bitch about everything but only because they do NOT understand the system, have not read the manual, and jump to hasty conclusions based on nothing but inexperience!!

I am in NO way suggesting that is happening with you Deane, I am merely pointing out some of the rubbish that gets written over there is exactly that!!

Just some thoughts...

Dennis

Is this true???

Hi Mike,
I had high hopes of being able to use two MOTL arrangers for my gigs but the PA600 will not be easy for me to make work. That said, It is a good keyboard if in the hands of someone who understands the many ways sounds and styles can be adjusted. I have no background in these things and frankly am not inspired to learn about them. In my opinion, this would be a terrific match for someone who plays more modern music then I do. The Dance and Rock
styles are pretty darn good as are many of the latin styles.

Anyway, we will see - someone out there can make good use of it.

Deane

Dennis,
No offense taken. That is, or should be what forums are about, exchanging ideas.
I guess I fit into that "other" camp and enjoy playing but not "tweaking" keyboard parameters.

I'll certainly continue to figure things out if a sale is not forth coming. Who knows where it will all end?

Deane

Where? I just had a quick look and cannot find the threads you make reference to about it being an octave higher???

I CAN find Deanes' re being an octave lower, but as I wrote above, this is to compensate for the C4 split that is factory default...it is the same on the 76 note versions..and it mostly only applies to sounds that are selected by selecting a performance, and NOT a specific sound itself.

SO if you select a patch from a sound menu and not a perf bank, the sound loads with no octave shifts at all....

Deanne ... obviously I have an interest in the PA600, but I also intend to do some 'hands on' before purchasing ... I am waiting for Frankie to get them in at AudioWorks because he is just a little over 1 1/2 hours from my house ...
Good luck with your sale ... sorry it didn't work out for you ...

Hi Deane

The comment about tthe RH voices being set to -1 is not correct
as you cycle through the STS settings they change to suit each instrument.

Examples:

Swing Ballad 2,
sts1 +1, Whistle
sts2 -1, Clarinet
sts3 0, Movie Strings
sts4 -1 Mute Ensemble

Jazz brush
sts1 -2, Baritone Sax
sts2 -1, Clarinet
sts3 0, Piano
sts4 0 Jimmy Organ

On the KMA you can't change the octave transpose for individual tracks you have to use the octave buttons.

Kind Regards

Col

Hi,

I have been somewhat reluctant to butt in here , seeing I have no first hand experience with the PA600 and also because Deane is so satisfied with Resources on the KMA.
As you guys know I have been playing the PA800 for the last two years and have just purchased a PSR-S750. A few general observations if I may, without taking sides:
For starters there are few or no arrangers that sounds terrific straight out of the box, no, not even the Yammies. Personally I think that the music finder on my PSR for example is a nice starting point to tweak the registration to my satisfaction but nothing more than that. More often than not the balance between left and right is wrong for starters, and generally all acc. tracks have been treated to the value 64 ( which is 50% ,correct me if I am wrong) of reverb, which I hate.
So all folks that are playing with the factory presets registrations, music finder or whatever without having tweaked any of them are shortchanging themselves big time.

To the best of my knowledge Korg has always been worse here than Yamaha, though Roland used to be the most awful just out of the box.( yes Fran). Tweaking registrations and sounds is terribly time consuming , more on the yamahas than on the Korgs due to the latter's touch screen but still.

Deane has been very pleased, as have been many many more with the resources that I offered for the KMA. But this needs some clarification. As you know the KMA is identical to the PA80/50, which I owned for four years , played extensively and even more, programmed extensively. So in other words his "modest " set up with the KMA is the result of four years of fairly intensive programming an tweaking. On top of that his taste in music and/or the audiences he is playing gets pretty darn close to the programmer's which is an unexpected bonus I guess.

His decision to consider selling the PA600 is a personal consideration. Having owned PA50/80/500/800 I am sure that with extensive programming and tweaking it can be made to sound good if not terrific. I remember DonM asking me a year ago when I would start on the PA3X. For several reasons, poor health included, I decided to be the wiser and not proceed with the purchase of the PA3X. No doubt a dynamite keyboard but all of my previous years of programming were virtually lost on it and I did not fancy starting again from scratch. I wanted to play, hence also my recent home-made CD. ( q.v.). also remember that the amount of variables on the PA3X, also due to the EQ settings, is so vast and overwhelming that I thought the better of it. Again I want to emphasize that both new Korgies are great keyboards in my view but they will need extensive programming whichever use you put them to.

Personally I am doubt whether to retain the brand new Yamaha PSR-S750. I had a 3000 and 900 before I cannot see what all the excitement is about. Yes some right-hand sounds are better than the Korgs but the overall sound remains: KEYBOARD with still very inferior drums compared to Korg, let alone to the master of them all Ketron. Actually I have a few sets of Ketron styles that were converted to Yamaha and would you believe that they are the better sounding ones at times compared to the internal yammie styles. If anyone is interested feel free...........

In conclusion I should of course say that I am delighted to hear that Deane ( and many more that have expressed so in private mails) is so pleased with my KMA programming.

regards,
John Smies

P.S. the octave +1 is a non issue, forget about it........

yuk....I wouldn't want any manufacturer to dictate what I'm gonna sound like on stage with default sounds and styles! .....
they give you the tools,.....YOU Build The House!! Funny how so many are reluctant to DIG INTO the OS and make his/her arranger KB sound so much better then the default,....it's all in there you just have to "take the time" "do your homework", to make it sound "AMAZING" if you know how or want to learn how. It's not that difficult, you and your audiences deserve better then default. Don't short change yourself.

Is this a new buy/sell SZ record?...or does it have to be officially 'out the door' in order to make the record books?

I believe UD may currently hold the all-time bought/sold top spot of 32 hours (or less)

One mans loss is another mans gain......all you Pa600 hunters should jump on this deal ASAP!

Donny ... not without giving it a 'test drive' ... JMHO ...

Test drive ain't gonna cut it IMO especially to a newbie to the KORG OS like yourself,....yes you will get a "QUICK" feel for it BUT in no way should that be a judgement call,......
it takes days & dedicated hours to set it up "RIGHT" to get it right, and probably longer for a newbie between reading the manual and asking all sorts of questions of experienced users..but I repeat,... once the homework is done KORG arrangers are HARD TO BEAT! If someone is not ready to do that i say don't buy it and go with some out of the box pre default KB and be satisfied with what you get, but if you truly care about your sound, and musical playing experience to give your audiences a really enjoyable "LIVE" sounding arranger KB experience then it's KORG ALL THE WAY!

Going, going, GONE!!
The PA600 has been sold!

Deane

Hi Deane ,

As a matter of interest, what arranger keyboard would you buy

now?

Frank

Frank,
I would buy ANY keyboard that looked interesting to me. I have previously owned
Roland E50 and E80 and the BK5
Korg Pa1X, PA2Xpro, and the PA600
Yamaha PSR3000, and Tyros 3.

I currently own a Korg MicroArranger which I absolutely love, a Yamaha S950, and my Tyros 4.

I try to keep an open mind and if something comes along that sounds good why not
give it a try. If someone buys and sells any piece of equipment it doesn't mean that gear is not top notch. For me it has to fit into my gig needs and that means styles and sounds have to fit the music I play.

Deane

THAT'S IT!!!

I believe we have a new buy and sell SZ record!

Seriously...Good move. Ya gave it a shot, and it just wasn't for you, and like many of us, you can tell if it's a keeper very quickly.

Have you tried pairing the S950 with the KMA?

Hey Larry,
I'am getting to be as bad as someone else on this forum!(He He)
I hope no one on the forum judges the PA600 because I sold mine
so quickly. It is a really nice keyboard and for the right owner will be
a winner.


Deane

So does that mean that the reverse is true - without your customized styles/musical resources set that the KMA would also need to be tweaked like the other Korgs to maximize the benefits of each style?

I notice that on your website you also show a customized styles/musical resources set for the Pa800. If this set were loaded into the Pa600 would that eliminate tweaking each style or because it is a different board that it would be hit and miss as to what would need a tweak and what wouldn't?

While John's resources are extremely good, it doesn't mean they are right for everyone, and it doesn't mean the keyboard isn't useable without them.
Some people are happy with the Korg's factory settings, others are not. I used them as a starting point and did my own setup, and found I didn't need to do an awful lot to make it sound like I wanted.
I changed some drums kits and some style part sounds and levels, changed the STS settings to call up the sounds I wanted called up, then saved to Songbook. Very simple once you get into it.
You can edit as little or as much as you want, and it's not too hard, but there is a learning curve, as with most things.
DonM

Donny ... all the recommendations and comments about 'digging in' and 'editing' and 'making it your own' aside, I could be wrong but I am pretty sure you have always been a preacher of the 'don't buy until you try' school ...
I'm not saying my total judgement will be based on the 'out of the box' sound, but I DO think a test drive is in order ... and then, AFTER I buy, stay near you phone, because I'll be calling ...

Good for you, Deanne ... best of luck with your NEXT board ...

That's exactly the way I've done it for years, and what DonM says above puts it nicely in a nutshell. Like anything else, it's all in the ear of the beer holder.

Tony ....after you demo it in the store & get it home call me or Dave anytime we'll try to help you along best we can no problem, while your there try the S950 also to be sure before you make a choice for a new unit vs the kn7000.......
Are you singing thru a mixer or?

Donny, I certainly will ... thank you ...
I will try whatever is there, but the PA 600 is more in the price range I want to spend for a second board ...

I sing through a Digitech VH into a mixer into powered spkrs ...

As to your first question : definitely in my point of view.
Of course there is no accounting for tastes and like Don points out further on any of these keyboards can be played out of the box or with minor tweaking, but why do you reckon Deane is so pleased with his KMA ( owing a Tyros 4 and PSR950 on top !!!) that he dispenses with the PA600 ?
It can not be the quality of the PA600 cause I am sure that with extensive tweaking and progamming it will go a long way, but even taking into account what Donny says ( spent days of getting it right) you cannot compare such an effort to playing with the same keyboard intensively for four years , constantly programming and tweaking as well. And may I add that Deane is using basically my ( ultimate) 2006 set for his KMA while he is also in possession of four previous sets.

As to your second question, and bearing in mind what DonM says here later in this thread, I sent my extensive programming on the PA800 (still my main board) to several folks I know who had purchased the PA3X. ( which I owed myself for 10 days......) No, the PA3X and no doubt the PA600 as well cannot do justice to my PA800 resources, or vice versa if you like. Simply because the sounds etc. refer to different locations in the PA800, hence the result is often disappointing or even crap. ( this excludes of course all the styles that I include and can be played on any PA model. If you want more info on that simply mail me:
pasounds@zeelandnet.nl
Bottomline to me is that ALL keyboards need tweaking and progamming. Many here often do not have their boards long enough to get down to that. Second, if you perform on stage , see my thread on " arranger keyboards anno 2012 " folks will hardly hear the difference to brand A or B, let alone whether the entertainer's keyboard has not been tweaked, altered slightly or tweaked intensively.
Here in Holland , a traditional organ country, many former organ players have Yahama Tyros or PSR in their homes and hardly get beyond the songfinders registrations, believe it or not ..........


kind regards,
John

I sincerely believe that Deane, like many of us, enjoys a wide variety of styles such as those that are available with Yamaha. Many styles that relate perfectly to the type of music that many, many of us perform, often more than once a day.

Granted, there are some forum members that feel very comfortable with a dozen style files, but there is also an overwhelming number of players that want more diversity in their musical performances. Deane is in the latter group.

Just yesterday, I talked with a PSR-950 owner that wanted my Music Finder Directory (MFD) for his keyboard. I walked him through the process of loading a new MFD into the keyboard, then asked if he had set the EQs. He had not and didn't really know how to set a User EQ and save the information as default. I walked him through that process as well and he was happy as a clam. He was hearing sounds he had never heard from the keyboard since he purchased it a few months ago.

The entire process took less than 5 minutes. Now, I have no experience with the PA600, and the only Korg I've owned was a decade ago. I really never liked the style selection and the right hand voices were mediocre at best, even after tweaking and tuning. I'm confident that much of this has changed since my experience, but from some of the statements I've read in recent weeks, it doesn't seem to have changed significantly. I really don't want to spend endless hours tweaking and tuning each style, each voice, each drum kit, etc...

I guess I'm easier to satisfy than some other forum members when it comes to styles and sounds, but maybe it's the keyboard's I've selected over the years. During the past decade, Yamaha's PSR and Tyros series, right out of the box, have sounded damned good, at least to my aging ears. And, after five minutes of tuning the global EQ settings, they sounded great, IMO.

This is my opinion, and my observations, and is by no means a reflection upon anyone elses opinions or experiences. As CLint Eastwood once said "Opinions vary."

Cheers from the tropics,

Gary

Let me say this unless you settle for what you get out of the box which isn't much unless you settle for what you get out of the box which isn't much in my opinion I don't see why people are lazy to get it right and make it sounds fantastic its not that difficult......and especially with Yamahas compressed sound it needs a Live EQ kick start big time...........its worth all the time and efforts.

I do all kinds of demos on Tyros and PSR, and most often I am presented with instruments just taken out of the box only minutes before my clinic.

It is nice to have an instrument that sounds great right away, and, that's just how the PSR's and Tyros's sound...great right out of the box.

They can easily be made (adjusted) to sound different, and the amount will depend on the personal taste of the end user. Some people are quite content with the factory settings, and some are more adventurous and like to experiment, but the settings used by some may or may not agree with those another likes to use. Sound is personal.

Yamaha's arrangers have an inherent characteristic sound...so do Korg's and Roland's, so it's pretty darn easy for someone to find the best platform to start with for the basic type of sound they want to hear coming from their speakers.

So, start with the right brand of instrument, and don't expect your new Korg to sound like your last Roland, or your Yamaha to sound like your recently sold Korg....the hearts of these instruments are different, and deliberately so.

Saying one is "better" than the other is simply telling everyone else what kind of sound YOU happen to like...nothing more.

Today's arrangers are all terrific sounding instruments, and, we are lucky to have such fine choices available.

Ian

I find I'm not able to trust my ears as much as I used to. I don't have a lot of hearing loss, but in an atmosphere where there is a lot of peripheral noise, I have some trouble.
I know what I like, just not sure if I'm hearing it sometimes!

DonM

My best thought here -- no out-of-the-box worries, that’s not for everyone. BUT keep growing with your keyboard as you use it. The keyboards today are capable of doing fantastic things when given time.

John C.

I have the Korg Pa50sd yes this maybe not the most up to date keyboard by today's standards. For its price it's a good budget arranger. Having owned it for 6 months now Im only scratching the surface of what it can do. Agreed a lot of tweaking is needed. Like breaking in a new pair of shoes. The Korg goes down great in Nursing Homes that I play in. And styles from the Pa1x and Pa800 work well after conversion with styleworks.

Though I don't own one now, I have to say the best out of the box sound and styles I have used are from ketron's sd series. I haven't looked at the audya, and won't until I can better justify the cost and they can better demonstrate reliability.. My friend's T2 sounds fantastic, but after 8 years has tons of "personalization". As has been said, it's a personal preference. I watched the recently posted PA600 vs PSR750 video and have to go with the Korg there. Both Pa3X and T4 have there good and bad to me that make it close. You have to go with your instinct, and first impressions do weigh heavy. Let's face it, out of the box is the first thing any potential buyers hear and what sways them initially. I did the same thing ,Having the BK5 for only 1 day before going Korg.