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#354380 - 11/09/12 10:12 AM Re: PSR S950 First Impressions [Re: cgiles]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: cgiles
+1

I too believe that the quality of a style starts with and is defined by the rhythm section.

chas


True enough...but the term "quality" will also mean something different to each listener/player.

Again, having a choice is, in my opinion, much more preferable than having to deal with another person's (or manufacturer's) idea of what is "best", or "better" for my wants/needs.

Ian



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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#354383 - 11/09/12 10:42 AM Re: PSR S950 First Impressions [Re: ianmcnll]
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
Nope. no argument with that Ian - I did forget to stress in my post it was only my view. Wasn't meant to start anything at all smile

Dennis

BTW I made NO mention of pro or otherwise wink All I said was the MAJORITY of sales go to home users - there was not even a hint of the ability levels at all

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#354386 - 11/09/12 11:13 AM Re: PSR S950 First Impressions [Re: rolandfan]
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Have the drums been improved overall, or are there a couple of newer kits in there (that only a few styles use)?

From the spec charts, it doesn't look like much has been done to the PSR's stock drums... Have the factory presets been tweaked to up the drum level a hair?
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#354391 - 11/09/12 12:10 PM Re: PSR S950 First Impressions [Re: miden]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: miden



Yes the Yamahas sell a lot, but let's face it, I daresay the majority of sales go to home users, who probably also have not changed their vote for 60 years either...or brand of underwear wink


More accurately, the majority of arranger sales from BOTH Korg and Yamaha are to the home user/player.

Let's face it, the arranger is (and started out as) a "home keyboard", with some models adding advanced (or, if you like, "pro") features like sequencing/audio recording/Wav & MP3 playback, Audio Drums etc., but the primary market is for the home player, whether they be beginner or advanced.

Any instrument with "Single Finger" Easy Play chording is still a "Home Keyboard", in my opinion, but some enterprising professionals do take advantage of the instrument's features and use them for gigging.

It's been that way since the earliest arrangers, so nothing has really changed. I think our Donny (dnj) was using a Korg SAS-20 back when hardly anyone used an arranger on stage, but you can bet he was in the minority (but he was working, nevertheless). wink

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#354392 - 11/09/12 12:15 PM Re: PSR S950 First Impressions [Re: ianmcnll]
mirza Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/15/01
Posts: 1314
Loc: london,ontario.canada
I think pro player use more of Korg Aarangers.Not that Yamaha is bad,but on Korg you can customize anything.
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#354395 - 11/09/12 12:56 PM Re: PSR S950 First Impressions [Re: mirza]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Originally Posted By: mirza
I think pro player use more of Korg Aarangers.Not that Yamaha is bad,but on Korg you can customize anything.


I still think the amount of pro players (those being paid) using Korg arrangers is still minuscule compared to the amount of home users. It is about the same with Yamaha.

As far as one type brand user being more "advanced" (or "pro" if you like) than another?

Again, just because a person knows how (or is able) to deeply edit styles or "customize everything" (or has the means to do so more extensively) doesn't make them a more proficient or advanced "player".

It still requires "talent". Several SZ music contributors do absolutely no editing, style-wise or voice-wise, and their music is first rate...then, we have some who do a lot of editing, adding samples etc., and it is still first rate.

As one SZ'er has as his signature, "It's not the keyboard; it's the keyboardist."

That applies just as much to arranger keyboards as it does to someone playing piano.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#354397 - 11/09/12 01:18 PM Re: PSR S950 First Impressions [Re: ianmcnll]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Originally Posted By: ianmcnll
As one SZ'er has as his signature, "It's not the keyboard; it's the keyboardist."

That applies just as much to arranger keyboards as it does to someone playing piano.

Ian


Not really.

chas
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"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#354398 - 11/09/12 01:44 PM Re: PSR S950 First Impressions [Re: DonM]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Yes, really.

Ian
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#354405 - 11/09/12 02:38 PM Re: PSR S950 First Impressions [Re: DonM]
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
I just feel that an arranger lends much more assistance to the player than an acoustic piano and therefore may/could blur the differences in performance abilities. If you're a 'duffer', a piano will expose it. JMO, though. I don't have to ALWAYS be right.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#354409 - 11/09/12 03:19 PM Re: PSR S950 First Impressions [Re: DonM]
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
I do see your side of it, Chas...really.

The arranger requires a different set of skills than the piano, and vice versa.

No pitch/mod/aftertouch on a piano, only one basic voice with it's set of many, many rules..it's vastness, it's limitations...no accompaniment to help out (but, also not get in the way).

The arranger, to be played properly and to make the most of it, requires good timing, the ability to play "off" time (no rigidness), the aural and fingering skills (and imagination, I suppose) to emulate different instruments, each one requiring a decent knowledge of how it is phrased, voiced, range of notes, vibrato and pitch bending skills (and where to use them).

You have to be able to switch smoothly between arranger sounds, and change skills/technique to utilize that particular voice so that it sounds relatively authentic (notice I said "relatively").

Consider playing guitar licks in one part, and the Hammond B-3 style phrasing in the next (with proper Leslie control)...not to mention orchestral strings and the ability to play them with the proper voicing (very few 3rds, lots of 5th and 4ths)...proper use of Swell Pedal for organ and then a tad differently for Brass and Strings.

And yes, if you are a duffer, the piano will expose every thing you don't know, and there's something about playing solo piano that is very intimate and personal, and it's a very lovely feeling of satisfaction being able to play without any "doo dads"...same for Hammond B-3 and bass pedals.

I came from the Yamaha Electone School ( I was a graduate, and eventually taught it) so I was sort of "eased" into arranger playing as the Electone had a drum machine (some were programmable) and a very primitive arranger/accompaniment section, although with the latter, you did get some neat arpeggios for certain genres, like Philip Glass, or Jarre.

Yes, piano playing is an art. As Bach said, "There's nothing to it. You just have to press the right keys with the right force at the right time, and the instrument will produce the nicest music all by itself."

Making an arranger really "do it's thing" is also an art, in my opinion.

Playing either without the proper skills can be a bit of a letdown, although I'd say both are unforgiving, but in a different way.

Don't get me wrong...I LOVE PLAYING THE PIANO!!

But, I also love playing my Tyros4, but for different reasons. It's rather like being the conductor (and lead player) in an orchestra entirely of your own design, and limited only by the amount of creativity you possess. You can be in a small jazz band, a symphony orchestra, a twangy Country band, or a jazz organ trio. You can turn parts off to thin out the band.

I still play the piano, only now it's a digital one...I don't ever want to lose those skills, however, I like developing new and different keyboard skills, hence the arranger and prior to that, the Electone and various synthesizers.

What one would I take to a desert island (with electricity, okay?) wink.

Probably the piano, although it would be a tough choice, now that I enjoy the arranger so much too.

What would you take on a desert island, given a choice between a piano (you'd have to tune it), a Hammond B-3 with bass pedals (and Leslie 122), or Fran's G-70? confused

Ian

Sorry for the long winded post...I got a bit carried away...I'm not getting out much lately. frown



_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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