Hi Guys i hope you like it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK0k7sKRfpc

Greetings Rico

¡¡¡Fantastic!!!

Nice job Rico nicely performed....but with your voice I would of much preferred you singing & playing this wonderful song instead of an instrumental although well played it doesn't do it justice it truly deserves. Another of my pet peeves is using the joystick on Brass/Trumpet parts,...if not done correctly just doesn't work. You have a great sound there and the SMF I would assume is commercial or created from scratch by you?.. or is it a Style of some kind,?.. since you posted this tune which I love I had to voice my true personal opinion, no disrespect intended. I hope you worked out the MIDI interface concerns you had asked about control using both KB?...
anyway have a good day!

An SMF?

Hi Mvoltrega,
Thank you verry much my friend
I wish you a nice weekend !
Greetings Rico

Hi Diki,

You can get it in SMF but this is not standaard SMF

I play indeed with midi but is not SMF and i also always edit my midi files to my likings
and strip ofc some channels so i can play myself
Greetings Rico Have NIce weekend

HI DNJ,

Thank you verry much for your nice comment my friend

I do understand what you mean but i am someone who or sings it or plays it most of the time, i dont do the same at 1 time
First, funny though i never done that before, second is that i like to get the full 100 % of attention of what i do to playing or singing
Maby in the future i wil try to do those both i would love to try it but to be honest i dont know if i can heheheh
because i simply never done that

Its indeed midi i use but its not an smf
its edited and some channels stripped ofc
but you can get this file in GM
I met a specialist in midi and he is working on it
he told me that he can get annything to work so that makes me happy so i hope he wil mail me the settings soon of what i need to do to get this to work
Hey told me thats if this works that i can layer 6 sounds this way
Now that would be awsome
Have a great weekend my friend speak to you soon
Greetings Rico

Nice One Rico...at first I thought it was an audio backing, but no matter, midi or audio, your style and personal touch to a song makes it even more enjoyable.

BTW...Glad to see the Jack Russell is back making a brief appearance.

Yeah... no criticism implied. SMF's have their uses exactly the same as style play. It was just hearing those counter-lines without seeing them played that made me think it wasn't an arranger demo.

I also use a few 3rd party SMF's, and do the same as you. I'll heavily edit them to my liking, and strip as much as humanly possible from them to give me the most to play. After all, why should the sequencer have all the fun!

Why the shame in playing over SMF or Custom Backing Sequences ......
the music world doesn't revolve around repetitious Arranger KB styles? Personally I'm well rounded & love the versatility to mix it up and make music in so many different ways which keeps it fresh and interesting. My audiences love it.

Donny... I don't read any shame about SMF's on this thread anywhere.

Don't see it where it doesn't exist.. No need to get defensive, we are all with you!

Well, not completely. For me, it depends on WHY you're doing it. If it's to cover up the fact that you're a poor player, I'm against it. If it's to allow you to SHOWCASE your playing ability, then I'm OK with it. Take Marco Parisi (sp) for instance. He can use all the SMF's he wants because when he plays, I'm listening to HIM because of the magic he's laying down, not the incidental background. JMO.

chas

Diki it's more of a "hidden shame" that quietly lies "between the lines" mostly with arranger Kb players who profess to "playing live"....not so much with WS players who are very creative with their musical approach. In reality styles are only small SMF that are controlled by the operators playing ability just like a SMF track... when you play alone as a pro on stage you need some kind of backing to produce a band type accompaniment & how you do that is fine as long as it sound good to your audiences and you happy with it yourself..I embrace all forms of creation as there is good stuff to learn and absorb in all of it no matter the genre.

Hi Donny,
It is kinda like "lip syncing" isn't it.

Deane

No more than using an arranger...

Using an SMF is no different to using a style. How much are YOU playing? How much is the machine?

That's the difference. Most of my SMF's are drums, bass, and maybe a bit of guitar. Played for years in live bands, and I was expected to cover EVERYTHING else. I don't feel comfortable doing anything less, even as a solo.

Let's face it. Holding down a chord, and hearing a full accompaniment issue forth is as much 'lip-synching' as pressing 'PLAY' on the sequencer and hearing the same full accompaniment issue forth!

I don't think it is AT ALL ... those times when I use a SMF I am also playing over it and singing ... that's not lip-syncing ...

Let's face it ... most unfortunately, more and more venues are cutting back on their musical budgets if not eliminating it altogether ... but yet, they want full sounding music, as do their customers ... this past weekend I went to the annual Columbus Day festivities on Federal Hill in Providence ... I saw at least 4 'groups' perform - one, a duo used an iPAD for their backing tracks and at least one other group incorporated pre-recorded tracks into their music ... but there were 'performers' working and entertaining the crowd and the crowd could care less where the music was coming from ...

Rico ... you always inspire me ... I've decided to take this song and "It's Not Unusual" out of 'mothballs' ...

This place never fails to suprise me, sitting in your court, have any of you ever put up any work like this, I doubt. It's just a bloody great pity he can make a G70 sound so good, why the hell he every bought one I will never know, it must have been going cheap, no one of his ilk would normally buy something like a G70

Rico Brill my man

Lip Syncing is more prevalent then you would imagine in MANY BIG national touring acts and shows, Like Disneyland, music concerts etc, etc. ....at a distance in a large venue its hard to notice with performers dancing and wearing thin headset mics but these shows are all organized and times to perfection and yes with the vocals already recorded for each actor on stage....so each show goes off flawlessly, even due to illness, sore throat or what ever the show must go on. There are many many ways to make music.......it's all good. Who are we to judge?

Who else? Isn't that the whole point? Else, wouldn't it all be meaningless?

chas

Exactly it is meaning less Nobody cares!

Hi Guys Thanks for @ll the comments

I wil reply in 1 go hehhe....

i always like these discusions btw hehhehe i think its fun
Diki You say you do the same as me thats nice to hear

the reason i am doing it is because of the drums and the way to get as close as possible to the original
styles are repetitive thats for sure
Lipsync i dont agree with that because i tell you that it is harder to play with a MidiFile then with a style because an arranger style you can make a fault disapear with a midi you cant
But that aside when you have the original what it does with me is it gives me more power to play a song because it just sounds better and when it sounds better i play better
And dont forget here i dont read notes and i never had anny lessons i just do what i feel like lol
funny there was 1 guy on YT he said to me Great Playing, nice song but the midi did all the work lol then i thought i think the only work the midi did was the fill-in to my opinion
LOl And i told him that i touched it hehhehe....
It also depends on the song atleast thats for me i also play with styles but i prefer midi
Don, i agree with you its the way you put it together it doesnt matter how you do it as long as the people enjoy it
and the fact always stays you only have to hands lol.....
And for me the most important part is the expression people need to feel in what you do and when you can get that done its ok in my believe
I Would never ever put annything online thats not played by me or faking stuff because thats simply not the way i am, but i am allready accused of doing so hehhe maby jalouse people
I didnt play for 6 years and i almost play for a year now again on yt and i am a verry happy man with all the reactions and comments especialy with Tico Tico Wooow i got almost 70000 hits on that 1 so ya dont here me complaining
I am realy overwelmd with al the things that happend to me since i got that T4
BTw i dont do this as a professions i did in the past but now its just a hobby
But i sure would like to do something in the future because i like to perform for people :))
And Chas m8 i go for the second option showcase :)))
Lets hope i am not a poor player lol.......
Greetings My friends Speak to you soon

Best Regards Rico

PS Sorry if there are anny englisch faults in my text i am not so good in englisch

Not exactly what I meant, Donny, but following your line of thought, I hope that's not the case (that nobody cares). Don't we strive to be better MUSICIANS, to be creative and inovative in the pursuit of creating ART. Are you saying that these qualities no longer have any meaning (in your 'high tech' world). Are you saying that as a 'consumer', I should be satisfied listening to a lip-synced pre-recorded MUSIC concert as long as the DANCE STEPS are executed properly? If that's the case, just kill me now.

chas

Chas,

There are judges and there are pompous judges???

I get what you mean Chas and I think you now what I mean!!!

Tony

Chas I think you need a trip to Disneyland very soon to catch up..........

Thanks, but that's not my usual destination when I want to hear good music. However, I'll keep it in mind the next time I want to see some good lip-syncing.

chas

The Millions & Millions of Disney customers & park goers all around the world at all their location can't all be wrong.. !!

Who Doesn't Lip Sync?

What? So now you're an advocate for lip syncing? The "millions" you're talking about going to Disneyland are either children or adults taking children (or adults acting like children). If the Disney presentations are your idea of "good music", then I'd have to say that you've set your bar pretty low......but, whatever turns you on.

chas

Chas you need to cheer up ....here listen to this with good headphones a couple of times....you'll feel alot better!!

Ok, I listened and now I'm lying here on the floor with both my wrists slit..........BUT, I AM smiling.

Thanks for the laugh, buddy.



chas

If you think that's bad,..... my wife years ago went to Disneyland with the kids and the boat ride broke down going thru the Pepsi exhibit that plays this song in every language ....she was stuck in the Japanese part of the exhibit for 4 hours until it was fixed with the song playing over and over again!!! .....
anytime she hears it now it drives her crazy!! lol

Look, who are we kidding? The minute that ANYTHING you are doing is not actually you live, you have made the compromise. Even if you make your own styles or SMF's from scratch, you are still doing something on stage that involves a machine. Big deal.

We've been sequencing and using arrangers since the 80's. Hardly anything new. Time to stop wringing our hands and wailing 'Woe is me!'

Does it really MATTER?

What matters is what YOU play. The more, the better. The tastier, the better.

Otherwise, go out, get yourself a stage piano, and either go out and get gigs as a straight up pianist, or a B3 and some pedals, and do straight ahead organ (but no rhythm boxes, please!). Or play at home using unaccompanied piano or organ.

Now, don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with either of these forms of music playing. But don't kid yourself. To pull this off takes formidable chops. So, what are you going to do if you are NOT the next Oscar, or Jimmy? You use what is available. If some kind of backing, whether it is a real band, or a sequencer or an arranger helps you get away with more limited skills, and music is what you want to play, I say go for it!

No offense, but their have been solo entertainers as long as there has ever been live music. Not every tribe had a full set of log drum players! Not every mud village had a full mummers consort. Not every theater had a pit orchestra. Finance and availability has always determined that sometimes, the full schmeer can't be used. All kinds of instruments were invented to expand the range that one person could play. Even guitars were developed from instruments of one string, or two. But then, lo and behold, add a few more and now you can chord, bass and solo! The accordion started out as a simple single reed device. But then the left hand side started sprouting bass and chord buttons. Voila! Full band!

Now we have sequencers and arrangers, and even MP3 backings. All these are is the inevitable conclusion of a path created LONG ago. At every stage of this path, the previous generation has gone 'This is cheating', the current generation has gone 'IS this cheating?' and the next generation has gone 'This is how it's done'.

Big deal!

The crux of the matter is, unless you have SOME talent, no amount of any of this is going to make you sound good (except to your mother, and she HAS to like you!). And, whether the backing is a live band, or an SMF, or an arranger, if you suck, you suck! The machine isn't going to cover it up. Unless you don't play a single note. In which case, you HAD better sing pretty good, and dance like Fred Astaire!

Just get over yourselves, quit hand-wringing, and get on with it... However you WANT to make music, make it! Let the audience decide, not you, not your 'colleagues', and not some luddites bent on smashing all machines. Cream rises no matter what you do or don't use, and the grinds sink to the bottom of the cup.

No matter WHAT they use.

The problem with what you just said, Diki, is that up until the sequencers and arrangers, everything was played by the player in real time. One string or a dozen, the player still played every note. You sound as if the audience has NO RIGHT to know whether you're playing it or faking it. I disagree. I DO think there is such a thing as artistic integrity. My father used to say (mostly to women), "If you got something, show it; if you ain't got nothing, SHOW THAT".

While I DO agree that it's what YOU play that's important, I am not ready to write off musical honesty as a virtue and that "as long as it pleases the crowd", it's acceptable. This is not being elitist or a purist or any of the other labels people put on you if you dare disagree with their opinion. This is simply what I believe and just because you may be able to articulate your point better, doesn't necessarily make it more valid. If lip syncing was so acceptable, then why all the hullabaloo and scandal over Milli Vanilli? Obviously, SOMEbody didn't think it was OK.

I said before that I have no problem listening to a good player playing over a SMF or an arranger backing (so I don't think that qualifies me as a "pompous judge"). I already said how much I enjoyed that funk jam with Marco Parisi that you put up. But he is a great player and the parts he was playing were quite obvious. The problem I have is the opportunity for deception, especially in live situations where it's near impossible to tell who is playing what (or even IF). Then there is the fact that you are NOT interacting with other musicians in real time, making it impossible to get the kind of true "live" feel that only a live band can transmit.

Sure there are times and circumstances where "compromise" is appropriate, but I don't think we should ever allow ourselves to be comfortable with it or accept it as the norm. JMO and NO, I don't insist that everyone agree with it or that MY logic and sensibilities are on a higher plane than their's. It's JUST MY OPINION.

chas

“Why the shame in playing over SMF or Custom Backing Sequences?”

There is no shame as long as you do not pass it off as all your work.

I have a friend who downloads a midi file, makes some changes and then he calls them his arrangements.

My answer has always been if I do not use the midi file and play it with my arranger keyboard you will not hear all that the original song has to offer. If I do not use my keyboard you will have to hire 4 or 5 musicians to do the job.
(Which would be my preference)

John C.

My sentiments exactly...also, singing over a commercial midi-file, and not playing a note, does not qualify someone as an arranger/keyboard "player"...more like an arranger/keyboard "user", in my opinion.

Ian

More like an "Arranger KB Controller" I would say is we are & do,......operating PRE programed Styles and Sequences is what is being done with these machines, lets be real here shall we?

... you guys trying to take the S-Z jester crown away from Tony Hughes ???

Jezz Tony they would need to get early in a morning to do that and smarten up a bit..

I guess it's down to how you define "keyboard playing" Donny...in my opinion, it means fingers actually pressing keys that make sounds, whether playing along with a midi file or a style or playing piano or B-3 either solo or with a band.

Pressing "Play" on the sequencer and singing over it (or even playing another non-keyboard instrument) is fine, and I have no problem with that...but, I just don't feel think it constitutes someone calling themselves a keyboardist/keyboard player/arranger player.

An "entertainer", perhaps, but not a keyboard player.

"Being real" (as in being a "keyboardist") or not depends on if one is really "playing" keys.

I'm sure that there are performers who combine simply singing over a commercial midi-file and also play the keyboard along with a certain percentage of the setlist, but I'm not talking about those people...I'm talking about those who don't play the keys at all.

Ian

Chas, I think the point that I was trying to make was, whether it's a REAL band, or a sequence, it still ISN'T all you. And I honestly think we are insulting our audience's intelligence to imply that they really DO think it is all you, when you sit down and a full band comes out of the speakers.

They can tell the difference, but honestly don't care. Just like no-one really cared when guitars went from one string to six (or more), or the accordion sprouted the chord and bass buttons.

Yes, I agree that there is a difference between someone who plays a one finger melody over a complete backing, and the player that plays 100% of all the parts other than bass, drums and maybe a guitar rhythm, but unless he is playing behind a curtain, give them some credit and admit that the audience CAN tell the difference.

TBH, as far as the audience is concerned, as long as either is entertaining (remember, we aren't talking studio here!) it is all good. I think the idea that the audience, if they are paying ANY attention at all, can't tell the difference is a bit naive.

BTW, the furor over Minni Vannilli lip synching wasn't that they were lip-synching. Plenty of artists have got away with that in a variety of circumstances. What they got busted for was lip-synching to SOMEONE ELSE'S vocals! Most major artists lip synch to their OWN recorded vocals... sometimes for TV issues, sometimes for health reasons (some of the singer/dancer acts are huge productions that can't be cancelled easily if the singer has a sore throat). And, let's not be rosy-glassed here... Some of the biggest and brightest stars in the world of jazz and popular standards singers have gone on TV singing to tracks. The practice has been going on FAR longer than the advent of sequencers and arrangers!

Where was the outrage?

Sorry, but this is a far deeper question than simply sequencer or not. Let's face it, the TRUE question goes back to the wax cylinder. The minute that ANY music got produced without a roomful of live musicians, the rot had set in. I bet you have a CD player, an iPod, a radio. That's not "everything was played by the player in real time", even in the studio while it was being created..!

Just give the audience more credit. If they are looking in your direction while you play, and give a damn at all, it's pretty easy to tell what YOU are doing and what you aren't. And if they don't give a damn at all, who CARES what they think?!

The Musician's Union and the Synthesiser “Ban”.

http://www.music.arts.gla.ac.uk/muhistory/?p=65

Ian

I remember playing as member of Local 802 of the AFM in NY and the union would determine how many musicians HAD to be hired for certain rooms, based on capacity ...
One of the first synth 'scandals' in my hometown was when one of the popular young band leaders started using backing tracks and hired non-musicians to stand in front of KBs and make believe they were playing ... of course the 'stand-ins' were paid about 1/3 what a musician would have made ...

This thread hasn't been hijacked from the original topic,
Has it?... Just sayin' ...

Wow! Wasn't much fuss about it here in Cape Breton, but in bigger music centers the synth replacing live players(especially string players) was pretty hot stuff.

In my area we have a trio (two young female singers and a guy sax player) and they use the sequencer in one of the keyboards as a backing track source.

The sax player does most of the solos (and he is pretty good) and both girls sing and stand behind a keyboard each...strange thing is, that neither girl is actually playing the keys, but "pretending" to play...one has Local Off set on her keyboard (the one playing the tracks), and the other just has the sound way down...if you are a keyboard player, and you can manage to pay attention (both girls are gorgeous) to what their hands are doing, you can easily discern that neither is playing what is being sent out through the PA system.

It certainly doesn't seem to bother the audience (many of who are "hearing with their eyes"), and both girls also seem to feel they are doing perfectly okay "entertaining", but it does make one wonder just what listeners/spectators have come to expect.

I suppose "smoke and mirrors" are okay if you are a "magician", but what about "musicians"?


These keyboard guys(one is the composer Hans Zimmer) work it nicely with "live" players, but I suspect an arranger player into this type of music (Telmo, for instance) could pull off a reasonably decent version.



Ian

Two things:
...............Naw. Sorry. There are just no words.
Unions, synths, lip-syncing .... nothing good can come out of furthering that discussion.
I withdraw my hand, and politely zip my lip!

Hmmmmmm. Trying to figure out the reason for that post. If, half way through, you decided not to post, couldn't you just not submit it? Must be some other message you're trying to convey. Just curious, that's all.

chas

The Union issue was in venues that COULD easily afford live players, and was an attempt to prevent unreasonable layoffs for Broadway, studio work, TV and things like that.

But basically, the Union was conspicuously absent in small clubs and restaurants that had never hired string sections or bigbands in the first place. I played the 802 area in the early 80's, and never saw those guys! At least in the small clubs.

For me arranger(style) playing is the last line I am willing to go to.Don't get me wrong.I like arrangers and use them every time I perform.But,I would rather play with real musicians.Sometimes adding a guitar or a solo violin or sometimes I play accordion and someone else plays arranger.It makes a big difference in our performance.And I love that.Everyone givers a piece of themselves in every tune we do.
I never played on midi.And I never will.It would make me feel cheating on music even more than I do with arrangers.Like I said ,that's the last line for me.
And I don't judge people that use midi.As long as they use it as a tool while performing.I mean mix styl playing with midi playing.
But buying top arranger just for using midi is beyond my understanding.It's such a waste of money and technology.

Guys, can't we put this issue to bed once and for all? I have been a professional performer all my life and I've worked in basically 3 different formats. I started playing in bands as a teenager and I love the band format. It's great to get to play with really talented players. Then I went to the OMB format. At first, I did it with B 3, and a drum machine. Later I went to keyboard bass, right hand keyboard and a drum machine. All the while I was doing this I also played lots of solo grand piano gigs. I am a trained pianist and I've always loveed playing solo piano. When arrangers came along I thought I had died and gone to heaven. Now I could bring the whole band with me and still play and sing til my heart was content. I still do a full series of arranger gigs and piano concerts and I must tell you that I get tremendous satisfacion out of both. The OMB shows are for audiences that want lively, dancable music. The piano concerts are a more serious listening time. I will share with you a compliment I got recently at a venue where I usually do OMB shows and dances. I did my first piano concert and afterwards a resident came up to me and said: Joe you are a great entertainer and we always love it when you come here. But tonight you showed us a different man. Tonight, you were an artist. As I said before, there is room for both. People want to be entertained. It is our job to do just that. It's our heart that is important, not our methodology.

Keep playing,

Joe

Chas,
I actually was trying to send a sort of subliminal message - this topic has never been an easy one on this forum, and I doubt that it will ever be. My point, if I could sum it up in a few thoughts was this:

Whether you front a band, play bass pedals on an organ, use styles, trax, drum machines, iPads, pods, phones ... WHATEVER - its 2000 friggin 12, man! This is a technological age, and these are the tools and toys of the day. use 'em, don't use 'em ... who cares? Just be advised that if you choose to WORK in this business, then expect your competition to be using the same tools. The choice is yours, but but make no mistake - this is just good, solid business practice to know your field and keep a competitive edge. Without a business sense, you're doomed to be one of those "Starving" artist types. I prefer to be a "working" artist, and I've done it all - no midi, some midi, lots o' midi, mp3, tape, CD, bad players, great players, so-so players ... the one constant in all of it over the years has been THE AUDIENCE. My job, and my ONLY job, as it relates to business is to please the client. My duty to my soul as an artist is to find a compromise between talent and technology that can co-exist peacefully, and make good music that feeds my soul and my family.
To argue over the "lesser" of two evils (midi vs. styles) is just so ridiculous that I couldn't find the words before. I'm glad you shamed me into a reply - thanx.

When I front a band, I do far less than when I run a one man show with electronics - they are 2 entirely different techniques to reach the same end result - making good music that entertains and satisfies.

I think the reason this appears to be (but really isn't) a source of contention, is because there are two populations on this board and each tends to speak from their respective viewpoints. They are the Pro's/Semi-pro's and the non-pro's (amatuer/home player). The latter may or may not play at a 'pro' level but have chosen to make their living in another profession/vocation. The Pro may or may not be concerned about the 'purity' of the art but is always concerned about the business aspect of it. That translates into how well he is received by his paying audience. Rarely does a 'Pro' enter into discussions like this without some mention of "feeding his family". When that is the primary motivating factor, then 'all's fair' in love, war, and how we go about making music. This is not to say that Pro's don't care about the 'art' behind the business, but in the end, if a chicken hat will put a chicken in the pot, then so be it.

All this business about SMF's, arranger KB's, etc., is just a smokescreen. If you're a good musician you're a good musician; if you're lousy, you're lousy. Maybe YOU don't know which you are, but WE do .

I say, do whatever makes you happy, no matter what category you fall into. I do think, though, that there are some basic truths:

1. If you can't play, a new 'latest, greatest' keyboard is not going to change that.

2. If you can't sing, a vocal processor is not going to change that (I know, I've tried).

3. If you post a tune and only get the 2 or 3 obligitory "good job" or whatever, it usually means that it sounds like crap.

4. If you can't play a gig without a SMF, stop gigging and go home and practice.

5. If Mom is the only one that's telling you that you have talent, well........

6. Even if you're a Pro OMB, try to play with other musicians once in awhile.

7. Record yourself and then listen critically. You don't need to kill yourself after listening to the playback, just shore up the bad patches.....that was the point.

8. Finally, and most importantly, take everything I say as gospel .

chas

I guess quite a lot comes down to preference... I am getting the impression from some here that, even if they COULD perform and get paid in a larger, full band, they would still rather perform solo, with either the arranger, SMF's or even MP3's.

I guess that's the line I won't cross! If I get offered a full band gig, I'll take it over a solo any day of the week and twice on Sunday's! I don't mind using the machines to cover for a band if it's understood that it's a stopgap measure. But to take the machine OVER a real band... that's just something that makes me cringe.

I really don't care about how good arrangers get, or SMF's, or even how good the karaoke tracks are. They are going to be the same, night after night (I'm sorry, but slightly varying your chord input to a style that is going to play it the same way don't count, in my book!). But a live band is a living, breathing thing that probably couldn't play it identically on two nights even if it WANTED to!

But.... we all live and work in the real world. If the live band gig doesn't materialize, I'm not going to agonize over using the machines. Again, preference comes into it. All I want out of the machines is the bare-bones backing. Bass, drums, and as little else as I can humanly get away with. The day that I have a hand spare, and let the machine play something tricky or important, just shoot me!

Bare Bones or Full Bones doesn't make any difference........
no body cares!.......just make good music and people will enjoy it bottom line.

I still like it, even after your post was hijacked to Mars

Hey Larry, Mars is the hot new planet these days .

chas

Let's face it...it all boils down to musical "Talent"...and that includes feeling and creativity.

If you have little or none of the above, or have never tried to learn or earn them, playing with styles/SMF/live players isn't going to help.

Rico obviously has talent and the other included qualities, and, instead of just talking about them...he shows us.

Fine job, Rico.

I enjoy playing several times a month with a bunch of talented "live" players (number varies) and also I enjoy playing my Tyros4 arranger keyboard equally as much, whether stripping a style down to the basics, or using it full-blown (again, the number of players varies, only this time it is my choice).

A lot of times I learn cool new things from the "live" player interaction, and, in as many instances, I learn fresh material from using the Tyros4, especially playing genres I don't normally get to do with "live" players...also, with the arranger, I enjoy having the freedom to play any time I feel like playing, no matter what the hour or day.

Both situations have their benefits, and negatives..it's entirely up to the player to make the most of each position.

Donny said it best..."just make good music and people will enjoy it, bottom line", and I would emphasize the words "make" and "good".

How we successfully accomplish that goal, is no-one's business but our own.

Ian

I'm afraid this is the attitude I have to disagree with. Unless it IS 'barebones', it isn't YOU that is making good music. And, unless your audience is paying you no attention at all, they CAN tell the difference.

Let me ask you a question, Donny. Is it OK for you to lip-synch to someone else's SINGING? Now, the audience MIGHT not notice, and they MIGHT like it even more than your normal voice (if the singer is TOTL) or at least as well!

If 'no body cares!....' to quote you, are you comfortable with this? And if not, why, and what exactly is the difference between doing this and doing the EXACT SAME THING on your keyboard?

Im from the close your eyes and listen school of thought.....
what do you hear?... it's either good or bad...all this trying to fudge what someone plays and how they play it is of no consequence when your eyes are closed & you let your ears make the decision. Bottom line if your not playing a SINGLE solo instrument "without any automation" your just an operator of the machine your using to generate some kind of sound...stripped or full version..people have been lip syncing for decades it's nothing new, I personally don't use this method but, there are circumstances when it makes sense...you see it on shows, and stages all over the world & on TV many times...vocal harmony units is another form of automated singing also......musicians do care a bit more of what they do sometimes too hard on themselves.....but the people listing mostly don't care either way....if it SOUNDS GOOD is what is absorbed and enjoyed or not. So in conclusion I will always close my eyes ....listen......and absorb......my personal opinion of "what I hear" is my prerogative. Have a nice day I just finished a Fresh Mixed Garden Salad with Extra Virgin Olive oil & Aged Balsamic..soooo good ...now I'm off to another gig this afternoon,...fyi....all live styles full blown arranger KB w/ vocals NH gig...... no BT/Smf,..
For me everyday is a different bag of tricks baby!

Donny,

I could not agree more and most people would do the same.

So, in that case, a DJ is the best musician in the world? Close your eyes, sounds fantastic!

I think you kind of dodged the question, Donny. This isn't about what sounds best with your eyes closed. It was about, if you DON'T personally lip-synch, how is that different from playing much less than you can?

btw Tom Jones is one of my all time favorite singers also!!