The Musician's Union and the Synthesiser “Ban”.

http://www.music.arts.gla.ac.uk/muhistory/?p=65

Ian

I remember playing as member of Local 802 of the AFM in NY and the union would determine how many musicians HAD to be hired for certain rooms, based on capacity ...
One of the first synth 'scandals' in my hometown was when one of the popular young band leaders started using backing tracks and hired non-musicians to stand in front of KBs and make believe they were playing ... of course the 'stand-ins' were paid about 1/3 what a musician would have made ...

This thread hasn't been hijacked from the original topic,
Has it?... Just sayin' ...

Wow! Wasn't much fuss about it here in Cape Breton, but in bigger music centers the synth replacing live players(especially string players) was pretty hot stuff.

In my area we have a trio (two young female singers and a guy sax player) and they use the sequencer in one of the keyboards as a backing track source.

The sax player does most of the solos (and he is pretty good) and both girls sing and stand behind a keyboard each...strange thing is, that neither girl is actually playing the keys, but "pretending" to play...one has Local Off set on her keyboard (the one playing the tracks), and the other just has the sound way down...if you are a keyboard player, and you can manage to pay attention (both girls are gorgeous) to what their hands are doing, you can easily discern that neither is playing what is being sent out through the PA system.

It certainly doesn't seem to bother the audience (many of who are "hearing with their eyes"), and both girls also seem to feel they are doing perfectly okay "entertaining", but it does make one wonder just what listeners/spectators have come to expect.

I suppose "smoke and mirrors" are okay if you are a "magician", but what about "musicians"?


These keyboard guys(one is the composer Hans Zimmer) work it nicely with "live" players, but I suspect an arranger player into this type of music (Telmo, for instance) could pull off a reasonably decent version.



Ian

Two things:
...............Naw. Sorry. There are just no words.
Unions, synths, lip-syncing .... nothing good can come out of furthering that discussion.
I withdraw my hand, and politely zip my lip!

Hmmmmmm. Trying to figure out the reason for that post. If, half way through, you decided not to post, couldn't you just not submit it? Must be some other message you're trying to convey. Just curious, that's all.

chas

The Union issue was in venues that COULD easily afford live players, and was an attempt to prevent unreasonable layoffs for Broadway, studio work, TV and things like that.

But basically, the Union was conspicuously absent in small clubs and restaurants that had never hired string sections or bigbands in the first place. I played the 802 area in the early 80's, and never saw those guys! At least in the small clubs.

For me arranger(style) playing is the last line I am willing to go to.Don't get me wrong.I like arrangers and use them every time I perform.But,I would rather play with real musicians.Sometimes adding a guitar or a solo violin or sometimes I play accordion and someone else plays arranger.It makes a big difference in our performance.And I love that.Everyone givers a piece of themselves in every tune we do.
I never played on midi.And I never will.It would make me feel cheating on music even more than I do with arrangers.Like I said ,that's the last line for me.
And I don't judge people that use midi.As long as they use it as a tool while performing.I mean mix styl playing with midi playing.
But buying top arranger just for using midi is beyond my understanding.It's such a waste of money and technology.

Guys, can't we put this issue to bed once and for all? I have been a professional performer all my life and I've worked in basically 3 different formats. I started playing in bands as a teenager and I love the band format. It's great to get to play with really talented players. Then I went to the OMB format. At first, I did it with B 3, and a drum machine. Later I went to keyboard bass, right hand keyboard and a drum machine. All the while I was doing this I also played lots of solo grand piano gigs. I am a trained pianist and I've always loveed playing solo piano. When arrangers came along I thought I had died and gone to heaven. Now I could bring the whole band with me and still play and sing til my heart was content. I still do a full series of arranger gigs and piano concerts and I must tell you that I get tremendous satisfacion out of both. The OMB shows are for audiences that want lively, dancable music. The piano concerts are a more serious listening time. I will share with you a compliment I got recently at a venue where I usually do OMB shows and dances. I did my first piano concert and afterwards a resident came up to me and said: Joe you are a great entertainer and we always love it when you come here. But tonight you showed us a different man. Tonight, you were an artist. As I said before, there is room for both. People want to be entertained. It is our job to do just that. It's our heart that is important, not our methodology.

Keep playing,

Joe

Chas,
I actually was trying to send a sort of subliminal message - this topic has never been an easy one on this forum, and I doubt that it will ever be. My point, if I could sum it up in a few thoughts was this:

Whether you front a band, play bass pedals on an organ, use styles, trax, drum machines, iPads, pods, phones ... WHATEVER - its 2000 friggin 12, man! This is a technological age, and these are the tools and toys of the day. use 'em, don't use 'em ... who cares? Just be advised that if you choose to WORK in this business, then expect your competition to be using the same tools. The choice is yours, but but make no mistake - this is just good, solid business practice to know your field and keep a competitive edge. Without a business sense, you're doomed to be one of those "Starving" artist types. I prefer to be a "working" artist, and I've done it all - no midi, some midi, lots o' midi, mp3, tape, CD, bad players, great players, so-so players ... the one constant in all of it over the years has been THE AUDIENCE. My job, and my ONLY job, as it relates to business is to please the client. My duty to my soul as an artist is to find a compromise between talent and technology that can co-exist peacefully, and make good music that feeds my soul and my family.
To argue over the "lesser" of two evils (midi vs. styles) is just so ridiculous that I couldn't find the words before. I'm glad you shamed me into a reply - thanx.

When I front a band, I do far less than when I run a one man show with electronics - they are 2 entirely different techniques to reach the same end result - making good music that entertains and satisfies.