Hi guys I'm a Singer/Songwriter who needs/wants an Arranger to sequence Original tunes only.

I was leaning toward the KORG PA 500, but the guy at KORG said what I want below isn't possible with that machine. The Yamaha PSR S710 interests me, but the manual doesnt really sound like the sequencer is all that much.

1. I want an Arranger because it has Drum patterns (styles) ready to go. I want to use the styles/drums like a drum machine. I like the fill buttons/intros/endings.

2. Can I use drum patterns already existing on machine to track initial song length like a drum machine? Am I able to edit drums extensively after initial tracking....

3. the Sequencer must have auto-punch & step editing

Also if I sequence with auto-accompaniment on, can I later go back and re-record say for example the BASS ? And still keep, say the electric Guitar?


My plan is to go with a PAY AS YOU PLAY Internet order....So does the KORG PA 500, Yamaha s710 PSR, or Roland GW-8 work? That's the top of my budget.

The Yamaha MOX6 seems like it would be great, but I really, really want fills I can use readily.

Please, I want an Onboard Sequencer only. (Roland BK-5 would've been nice) I want to also use live with me playing keys or play sequencer while I play Acoustic Guitar.

The reason I don't go workstation is I really, really want fills Onboard my keyboard. If I go workstation I will have to buy a drum machine.......



Thanks for any help

Hi Steve,
have you possibly considered another option like Band in a Box for accompaniment ?
http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.htm

unless of course you really want to play a realtime arranger.

Band in a Box has styles. Midi & Audio.
Type in chord progression it does a backing track for you.
If you want to do further editing , it comes with a pc sequencer called Real Band. Load in the song you've created in BIAB, change your bass, drums, piano whatever. The styles used in
Band in a Box are also used in Real Band.

For instance, just say you've got your song recorded, but you decide you don't quite like the bass line, you can literally
regenerate the bass line with the bass from another style, you can redo the whole track or just a few bars, or you could manually edit the track.

You could use any keyboard you like with it, arranger or synth, or controller. For the audio tracks you'd need a reasonably good pc or laptop. If you don't have a soundsource you could use a softsynth that comes with it.

If the korg won't do what you want, the yammie is probably even less likely.

Steve.. I think for an arranger with extensive sequencing and editing capabilities, the Roland G-70/E-80(used one) or the Korg Pa3X/Pa2X Pro(used) could be considered. Both of these arrangers have microscopic editing possible.I haven`t used either of these but have heard users mention the flexibility in editing available for these arrangers. In all arrangers you mentioned, there are fills. In addition there are dedicated pad buttons and you could assign a custom fill(drum roll etc.)to each of these pads and moreover I think that these can also be triggered through foot pedals(not sure on this though)connected to the keyboard... so really no need to take your hands of the guitar.

Moreover, you could even consider using a combination of an arranger keyboard and a computer based Digital Audio Workstation(DAW) software. That would mean a lot of flexibility at a good price but then a lot of work with eyes staring at the screen and carrying that laptop wherever you gig

I am just a hobbyist musician.. I`m sure many experts here could guide you on exactly what you`re looking for.
Good Luck.

Rikki

Kinda looking for a all in one solution. I like everything right in front of me, and able to use in live settings as well......I

Let me ask you this: Your PA 800 is the Big Brother of the PA 500, will it do what I'm asking?

I'm hoping the guy at KORG is wrong.......maybe he misunderstood my needs

Correct, Rikki...the Korg sequencer, on the PA-800/PA3x, is far more editable than what is on Yamaha arrangers.

Ian

That's what it looked like in the manual......

I really need KORG PA 500 owners to chime in on this one......My Budget is a touch over $1000......enough for the PA 500

One of SZ's members, FransN has a PA-500...he may be able to enlighten you on it's sequencer capabilities.

From what I understand, the PA-500 has basically the same sequencer as the more expensive models.

I wonder if the microArranger has the same caliber of sequencer?

Rikki's suggestion of Band-In-A-Box is also a good one.

Ian

Hi Steve,
if the PA500 has the same functions as the PA800, he is WRONG. The Korgs are all but a workstation.

I can only comment on the PA800.

Basically it has 3 Sequencer record modes.
Step record, you type in your chord progression, put in fills variations etc. After you save it you can go to the multitrack sequencer section & event list edit any notes you may want to change, you could record additional tracks , change whatever data you want.

2nd sequencer mode is Quick Record, just press recor and you play your song in realtime. After you finish, you can do all the editing as per abover.

3rd sequencer mode is Multitrack Recording where you literally record each track individually.

The editing functions on the korg are extensive.

Sometimes it might actually be quicker to do an alteration to the actual style ie drum track may not be quite what you want , change it, save it.
Basically you could do an easy record of your song, go back and do an event list edit, to change any notes.

The are some differences between the PA500/PA800, what exactly you should be able to find on their website.
One that springs to mind is I don't think the pa500 has a sampler. It's more than likely the sequencer functions are the same. I suggest you download the manuals.

http://www.korgpa.com/pa_root/en/products/pa500_comp.html?en

and korg has a user forum that's certainly worth joining.

Been a bit more quiet lately, a lot of the regulars have sort of dissapeared into the woodwork.

http://www.korgforums.com/forum/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=50&sid=96f6c6121ee189249dbaaf97efed7cc7

Anyway, read the manual, you don't have to read the whole thing , just the sequencer section for starters.

I don't really use the sequencer much, but if you ever want any help with style editing, I should be able to help.

Steve,

I went through this nightmare 10 years ago when I started back wanting to gig after a 23 or so year absence. I played tenor sax, so I wanted to sequence backing tracks to play along with.

I do not know about today, but back then I did not get much help here on the forum with the sequencing problem. Most everyone did live performance and did not seem very interested in sequencing.

At that time I made an email friend with a person from Australia who understood my problem. He told me about a keyboard that would allow punch in and all the features you would need to sequence without pulling your hair out.

At the time if you wanted to sequence 15 or 20 choruses you had to sequence the 20 choruses with Yamaha and other arrangers is the info that I received. I do not know about today‘s arrangers. Try sequencing 10 choruses with out making any mistakes. No one is perfect. The other arrangers at that time did not seem to have punch in, nor copy and paste features and such.

I sequenced the first 8, 12, or 16 bars (however the song was structured) and copy and paste them for the next 8, 12, 16 bars etc. Then I would just have to punch in and sequence the turn around for the bridge because it is usually different from the first turn around after the first 8 or so bars, right?

Next, I would sequence the bridge. Then to finish the first chorus all I needed to do was copy the first 8 or so bars and it works fine with the same turn around to get to another chorus. Then all I needed to do was copy the whole song and paste it for as many choruses as I wanted.

After learning the system and doing about 4 or 5 tunes it became much easier. If I were trying to sequence a tune and every time I made a mistake I had to start over, I would still be trying to sequence the same first tune.

Maybe today there are members that use a sequencer on their arranger and they have these features. However, a few years back the arrangers were still years behind my arranger for sequencing.

My friend from Australia told me he bought a PA1X (or whatever) when they came out, and he said that he missed the sequencer on the i30. He said the i30 was still way ahead of the other arrangers for sequencing and he could not understand why Korg abandoned their sequencer from the i30.

I do not sequence anymore because I play the arranger and do vocals. The sax takes too much practice just to keep the chops in shape. I do not gig very much and I find it easier to work with the arranger and do vocals. I still get many compliments using my “DINOASAUR” Korg i30. Some of the guys here still probably laugh at this but I do not have to gig for them. Ha! Ha! The folks I play for enjoy me.
Boo

Hi Ian,
talking off the top of my head, I'd be surprised if the micro had the extenstive editing functions of the pa500/pa800, but who knows. Personally I'd sooner have the pa500, the newer styles are better.
The micro serves a function inexpensive & lightweight take anywhere, great korg starter.

Ian, when are you going to check out BIAB again, gee it's come a long way since the old midi days, though I gather you're an arranger player, thru & thru. haahaa

BRICKBOO.....

I had an old ENSONIQ VFX-SD Workstation that did exactly what you are talking about...I would string together an Intro/Verse/Chorus as patterns into a song...

SIMPLE.....I used an old ALESIS SR-16 Drum Machine

I can actually pick up an ENSONIQ VFX-SD USED for $225.....

But the pianos are weak, plus some of them had reliability issues if they weren't sent back to ENSONIQ for a soldering solution....

I'm REALLY thinking the KORG PA 500 will do what I want......

I really want everything in ONE board.......

I cannot comment on other boards as I have only used technics, but as old a keyboard as it might be, the technics kn series - 7000, or 6500, or 6000 etc. - all have pretty extensive sequencing capabilities ... you can find a kn6000 owners manual to look at here:
http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/SXKN6000.PDF

technics owners here and on the technics forum occasionally will part with their kb

I have HEARD Boo play that worn-out old piece of junk, which I suppose is appropriate because that's what Boo is too.
Actually he makes it sound great, but it's a real shame that he is not longer using the sax much. He is a MASTER on it!
DonM

Steve,

After thinking about this, it seems that copy and paste, and punch in and out are 2 of the most important features. That is if you can also copy and paste a whole tune several times, for my preference.

Also the i30 has five extra tracks that you can go back after sequencing your song, and add more rhythm, solos or what ever with any instrument sound.

I can trigger this BSQ (backing sequence) and playback live with the keyboard, with all the features of the keyboard available. Such as fills endings, ensemble etc.

I didn't see many of these features in the manuals of the other boards that I investigated. Don't forget the friend in Australia said the PAX1 in his opinion did not have as good a sequencer as the i30. I don't know about the other Korg models. I kind of remember checking a few out such as the PA500 and was disappointed with the sequencing features. Maybe I am wrong.

I highly recommend getting a manual for any arranger about the sequenceing capabilites. In the old days all of the manuals sucked. Maybe the newer ones are better.
Hope this helps.

No I am not interested in selling my i30. It's not the keyboard. It's about playing the right chords (no matter how intricate they may be) and singing and being good looking like DonM, Uncle Dave, GaryD and DNJ. None of these guys can carry a tune in a bucket! But they sure can sing, croon and swing!!

For those of you interested in making money just become a DJ. Ha! Ha! That way you don't need to know a Bb from a Q#, 4/4 3/4, 5/4 50/50 or anything. Just how to count your pay. Ha! Ha!. Couldn't help it. "The Devil made me do it."

I appreciate every member on this forum. Even Nigel. Just a joke Nigel! Don't throw me off, OK? I'm hardly here anyway. I just offer a change of paste.

What's wrong with Uncle Dave? I can't get him ruffeled any more with whatever I say now. Oh! "the good old days" when Dave and I went round and round for days and days. It kept our blood flowing. I guess we both grew up and got older.

My best to all,
Boo

Yo Boo! Miss ya, man.
:-)

Ahhh Dave is gettin' old

Steve, what is your goal with your songs, what are you planning to do with them?

I write Christian/Country/Rock Pop.....

Closing in on 100 tunes. The ones I feel strongest about I use my session players in Nashville & L.A. As per my Soundclick page. But financially I just can't swing recording every song this way....

Also, some tunes I feel it would be better for me to play a lot of the parts to keep the original feel. So, I guess I would be making tracks to go into the Studio (I don't have one on purpose) to cut vocals and add other parts.

At the same time I could use my tracks via Keyboard Sequencer "live" and play piano or Acoustic Guitar with it at different Churches, Open Mics Etc.

The tracks I do may end up being re-cut with session players but if I track a REAL good feel for the song, it will be closer to the original.

I plan to release these tunes via CD and Downloads...

A lot of my songs are Acoustic Guitar written, Probably 75%. So I was hoping I could create some interesting Guitar Parts on the Keyboard in addition to my Breedlove American C25 SME Acoustic Guitar.

As I thought, you and I are very similar. This is JMO, but I'll give it to you FWIW.

I don't think you will find a solution in the arranger arena. If it had to be an arranger, I would say Ketron Audya is, by far, the best, since it sounds the most like live instruments. (I owned one.) However, it's expensive and support issues exist.

I think your only real option is a synth sequencer workstation. If you were to get good enough to lay down various tracks on one of those, it would sound most like a commercial release and, it would be more 'original sounding' than an arranger can provide. (I'm not good enough to do that. Yet.)

I am not aware of any arranger that is going to provide a decent alternative to hiring session musicians unless you are content to sell a few cd's here and there or you just want to record your songs for the sake of archiving them. Nothing wrong with that. And if I were buying top of the line, it would be Ketron Audya or Korg PA3x. But to get a sound decent enough for commercial release (in any genre), I doubt an arranger is the answer.

If you want to gig with an arranger, that's another matter. IMO, again, the best for live sound is Audya or PA3x. Roland is worth checking out. Yamaha is awesome for orchestrated pieces and big band stuff but for small combo / band stuff, it's not my choice. And I've owned three Yamaha arrangers.

Good luck!

Hi Steve,
why don't you check out Band in a Box, there's a forum.
Hey, they even offer you your money back if you don't like it.
You can record your backing tracks as audio files.
All you need is some sort of a keyboard to play along with.
The software has Real Tracks, ie real guitar strums, real guitar picking, real drums & bass. Real piano.
The realtrack style library is growing all the time.
Just have a listen to the demo's & talk to some of the muso's who use it for gigging, & a couple of them that I know of even use it in a studio.

The forum guys over there are really helpful. Doesn't hurt to ask.

SEMI-LIVE

Yeah, I was realizing that last night.....WORKSTATION.....

Leaning toward the MOX6....that's my budget for now.....its got 6700 Arpeggiators, so there are a lot of basic drums in there....The sounds I'm sure are more current than the KORG PA 500...,

I will add a drum machine, possibly a BOSS 880 DR later......

I really don't want computer stuff......yet.....I'm guessing BIAB is software that RIKKI is talking about.....

My best songs I'll still record with my session players....I think I've found a winning formula.....

Unfortunately or Fortunately, I'm getting a little bit more "prolific" in my Songwriting so I will DEMO them first myself....the ones that stand out will go to the session players...

I guess it's a good problem......

Hi Steve,
yes BIAB is software. I gather it's not really the way you want to go, but it might be worth 10 minutes of your time just to check out some of the demo's.
http://www.pgmusic.com/bbwin.demos.htm

I luv my arrangers because I enjoy playing them & I enjoy fiddling round with the styles.

On the other hand if all I wanted to do was create backing tracks or record songs, I could have saved myself ( or should I say, saved my husband) $1,000's of dollars on my arranger keyboards in the last 3 or 4 years keyboards.

Prior to the real tracks , I wouldn't have considered BIAB as an alternative, I was never really that happy with their midi styles. Some were good ,some mediocre, some really bad.

Also depends on the genre of music you like, BIAB is big on Jazz,Rock/Pop & Country. They also have midi classical & soundtrack which I enjoy.

Korg PA800 doesn't have a great deal in the way of country, it has some, but members used to complain there wasn't enough.

So really be worthwhile if you are interested in an arranger to not only make sure it has the sequencing functions you require, but that it also has the type of styles you require.

Rikki does the pa3x have more country styles then the pa800 had?

I'm not Rikki, but I can answer that. YES it does. It has some really good ones, plus many of the styles in the Unplugged bank are conducive to playing Country.
It has a really good Country Waltz, and a couple more Waltzes that are great for Country. It has some great Country Ballads that feature a crying pedal steel and a number of modern uptempo 4/4 and shoddish-type Country beats.
It's a little weak in the Country Shuffle category, but I found a couple that work and was also able to change sounds and kits to Country-fy a couple of Swing beats, in addition to loading a few styles I found on the World Wide Web.
Having said all this, nothin' does Country like Ketron.
Some day, after I win the lottery, I will develop an arranger that is the best of all worlds, with the good stuff from Yamaha, Ketron, Roland, Korg plus the stuff they forgot to remember. No one will be able to afford to buy one, but at least I'll have one and I will let ya'll listen.
DonM

Hi Donny,
I'm not a country style user, just what some of the owners used to complain about, not enough country on the PA800.
I've started compiling my list though, the new styles are
Easy Country
Country Blues
Slow Country
West Coast
Country Hit
Finger Pickin

Country 8 Beat is not 100% identical to Pa800
& they've dropped Country Shuffle 2

There's now 21 compared to the original 16.

The ones they've added are different ie they haven't just added a 2nd waltz or a 3rd ballad.

I did a bit of a comparison thru the same amp between my pa3x & pa800, overall the styles just sounded better balanced or something.

There's also 6 new unplugged styles.

Unplugged Heaven, (titles a bit of a give away.)
Acoustic Rock
Sally Groove (wonder if that's the one Don was referring to for mustang?)
Unplugged Reggae
Unplugged Ballad4
Easy Strumming

Quite a few new rock styles & they've dropped some.
New Pop, plus they've dropped a few
Ballroom pretty much the same ( 12/8 new), they've drop a few,
& altered some

Quite a few new latin styles & they've dropped quite a few also.

A few ne Jazz styles, again they've dropped some & changed some.

Couple of new soul styles.

They've added some Mexican Styles
Dropped a lot of the Schlagers , Polka's & Waltzes in short the european styles. Pa3X still has some , but they're new ones.

So Donny,
if you're thinking about a PA3X ( haahaa) I'm doing a full list.

Rikki, Sally Groove is for Lay Down Sally (Eric Clapton, Don Williams), not Mustang Sally.
I'd love to have the Styles that were on the 800 that they left off, just to see if they are useful.
There is also a style called Zydeco that is perfect for Don't Mess With My Toot-toot, and other Cajun songs.
DonM

Hi Don,
whoops,thanx, OBVIOUS I don't play Rock or Country . haahaa
Much shorter list of what I do use, than what I don't.

There are actually a number of styles missing. Some I think they may have only recorded some new intro's/endings for, so I'd include those.

Country regrettably there's only one that they dropped . Shuffle 2. It's the one that Pete mentioned to you that would be handy for a particular song you mentioned over at the korg forums a while back.
I'll send you country 8 beat also, may just have a new intro /ending, I'll have to check.
I compiled this rough list about 6 months ago , so I really need to do a proper comparison and listen to both styles again. The ones I wrote down as NEW are definately New, but I did a heap of "Not The Same" which could mean they may just have one or more new intro's & endings, and the actual variations are identical to pa3x.
I've found a few like that, so what I've done is just copy the old pa800 intro/ending to the actual pa3x style. Means one has the 4 fills rather than the 2.

I'll send you some as soon as I can.

Thanks Don,

I'm no judge on country styles, don't really use them, though I must admit I have taken a liking to Bluegrass BIAB styles, though wouldn't have a clue what songs to use them with. haahaa
I'll get that country shuffle 2 from the PA800 , to you asap, just in case it might be of some use to you.
Got any favourite Ketron Country styles? i'll start a new thread, we've hijacked poor Steve's long enough.

Thanks Rikki!!!! You are great!
DonM

Hey everybody, Steve came into my store today and I showed him that both the Korg's and the Yamaha's will do exactly what he wants. What Steve wanted to do and both the Korg product support people and the sales guys at Guitar Centers didn't know was to just record a factory styles drum pattern into the keyboards sequencer without all the other style tracks and then be able to record all the other tracks with his own recording. Simple, showed how both the korg and yamaha did it and he is quite happy. Now it's just a matter of him deciding which he like the sounds and features better for him. I really think he will enjoy using the Yamaha better and he liked the piano sounds, etc. more on the Yamaha.

Hi George,
that's great.


[quote=George Kaye]

George, I still would think a workstation, not an arranger, would be better suited for that. Plus, the numerous other sounds you can lay down. But as far as using an arranger's drum patterns... NOT a Yamaha arranger. His recordings will NOT sound near as 'live' as other brands. JMO.

Hi Rikki, I agree with you, Band in the box 2012, with real tracks, has come alive...This version is a 100 percent improvement....I have had it for about a week now..I notice on some computers, it hogs some resources..On my good laptop, it flies...For folks that have glitches with it..I suggest, Go into your PC performance and select "best performance", and not "let windows control"...After I changed this setting..No glitches...I also loaded the PG program onto my internal hard drive, instead of the supplied USB drive..(I think the USB drive causes glitches)..

PG Music is on top of it's game.....foR song writers...you should try it.."Band in the Box"..

Yep, 2012 version of BIAB is worth considering.

After listening to demo's on BIAB site for 2012 edition, drums sound to me as they always have, flat. Wish they were punchier.

What does BIAB offer the player who plays by ear & doesn't read music to input chord changes?.

Donny,

I have a couple of "Fake Books" and it is very easy to just type the ghords into the bars of BIAB. You can do a different chord on evey beat of the measure if necessary. It has a very nice feature of having the pedal bass playing the 5th note of the root chord on turn-arounds on the 2nd and 4th beats as many a jazz recording uses. I haven't heard an arranger that does this yet, that I know of. and the feature is a click or two away.

It would be great for playing your accordian along with on swing tunes too. It also works great on Dixieland tunes. My improvisation brain kicks in at these turn-around licks by the pedal bass. Man what a grove if you dig the jazz standards. Heck I even do it on the country tunes that I do.

Thanks George for taking the time to show me that what I'm trying to do is possible..
Yamaha confirmed this, though they did tell me it's better to get it done on one pass rather than edit later.....

Georges knowledge is second to none.....I was having trouble keeping up with him, but man, he's great.

He turned me on to the A2000 which is black, looks sleek, and sounds great. I just have to get past the left side of the board with the middle eastern buttons I will NEVER use.

He got me ALL excited about the 910, too bad my funds aren't in order yet....I'm only about 20-25 % there. So I got time to think this through. I like the recording of my acoustic Guitar to the 910 George.....

Guys......I'm just looking at an all in one on the keyboard for now....I can add BIAB or similar later. You guys keep steering me there.....that's an easy add later...

For now I want a one stop shop...

Steve, it was a pleasure and I know I talk a lot but I really like to share my knowledge with interested folks!
I'm a bit confused by Yamaha's comment "it's better to get it done on one pass rather than edit later....."
I can record each track one at a time a build a complete song or record every one of the 16 tracks at the same time but that wouldn't work well for the ability to multi track different ideas one at a time.

Sorry George, he meant I should get my drum part down PAT through one pass, because editing drums later would be really, really tough......So I need to get my drums down EXACTLY how I want it in one pass......I can then Multi-track like you say

BTW.....KORG says the PA1 PROx I tried yesterday won't do what I want, they say no PA will.....2nd person there to say that.....But should I go Arranger the Yamaha 910 is my ticket because of the ability to record my acoustic guitar, harmonies, and of course drum tracks.......I guess I will have to chew hard on getting my drums in one pass.....That does really hurt my flexibility.....

Better make sure it has copy and paste, punch in, punch out and so forth or you'll find yourself spending weeks if not months doing one tune.

Hi Fran,
great to get some feedback.
I find it brilliant.
I think some of the Real Tracks started to become available about 3 years ago. My laptop at that time really couldn't handle them. Glitchy. The real drums have been about a bit longer. What I actually tried doing with those was use them in my PA800, ie chop them up into short loops to use with my styles. The available memory in the PA800 was too small & not upgradeable , so I gave up on that notion.
Basically put biab away again, ecept for the odd midi style I converted for my pa800.

Just over a year ago, I got a new laptop, came across the actual demo's, I was sold, I was finally able to run the real tracks properly. I upgraded to the little usb drive so that I could get all the real tracks etc. I installed onto my laptop also, why have an external drive.

The other thing that made it better was the early version didn't have the elastique or something like that, so now instead of having 500 gigs it's down to 100 or so, because we were able to do away with a lot of the loops.

Fran do you also use Real Band? If you haven't had a chance definately look into it too.

I'm sort of getting interested in recording mp3's because my PA3X has the ability to play them, never bothered adding the function to the pa800.

Anyway back to Real Band, if you're a midifile user or use mp3's this program's really worth looking into.
You could load in a midifile , it will work out a chord progression if it hasn't got one,( don't know how accurate it is , but can be fixed) and you can actually replace a midifile track with a real track.
So if your midi drums are lousy, replace it with a real track. If you've got a strumming midi guitar track, replace with a similar real track. You don't have to do much, when you regenerate the guitar track it just follows the chord changes.Save as a song, or as a wav file.
Imagaine some nasty little arranger song , with lousy drums,replace with a real track.

They keep adding more & more of them with each upgrade. Definately worth buying the paks. I think I paid $99 or something for my last upgrade including the real tracks & program. Each of the REal TRack sets would have been $29 each. & I certainly got more than 2 sets.

Hi Donny,
have you never actually used BIAB?

As brickaboo said, you just buy a fakebook , & type the chords into biab. choose style, press play, automatic backing.

It can be as simple or complex as you want. I've had it for years and hadn't bothered to learn everything that can be done.

It can even write songs for you. You just have to keep pressing the button till it come up with something you like. You might wear your finger out, but the functions there. haahaa
It comes up with solo's, it can do melodies.
I've never tried this sort of stuff, at times I wish I wasn't such a keyboard addict, I'd probably have a lot of fun with BIAB on it's own.

Hi Bill,
they actually have 2 versions, the more expensive version of the real tracks is supposedly better quality, same styles but they use uncompressed wav files. Wonder what they use for their demo's.

With the Real Drum tracks, I believe I read somewhere a long time ago,that you could even do your own real drum tracks for use in BIAB. Never tried it as I only have the 1 cd of drum loops.Plus it was prior to them using the elastique function ( don't know if that would make any difference ,anyway?), just sounded a bit too complicated at the time.
Be interesting to see if it could still be done & whether the process has been simplified.

Hi Rikki, yes I have the whole library, bonus paks etc...

You touched on a useful feature...Reading an audio file and laying out the chords (Reasonably acurate)..then you can take the chord progression, add composite styles, VST's and real drums and tracks..and you can get a backing track that really kicks butt..This can be done without playing a single note

It is also a great feature for learning tunes from CD's etc...

Hi steve,
i have a psr, but i don't really use it, and I can't comment on PA1X, sequencer is possibly different to pa800.
If your your drums are going to be a problem, have you considered recording it as style instead.

OK
KOrg has 4 variations, each of these variations has 6 cv's ( chord variations) that gives you 24 different drum patterns you could have , each up to 32 bars long, just for the variations themselves.
Plus each of the fills , intro's, endings have 2 cv's each, they can be 32 bars long also, including the fills.
Just say you created the style, you could copy parts, edit them whatever it's got a great style editor..
Once you've got your drum style recorded,you could use the step mode record function. Put in the chords & variations for the drum track. Save. Load it into multitrack & record the rest of your tracks.
The reason I mentioned having to type in chords is, each of the cv's is triggered by a different chord type of your choosing.

Fran,
luv to hear a demo one day of a well known tune. PG do such obscure music for their demo's.
Even though I can type in a chord progression, (anyone can), be good to hear a tune with a well played melody ( leaves me out , haaha) or as a backing for a singer.

Well I settled on a used KORG Triton Extreme 61 keys....

I'll pick it up in 2 weeks......

Original Owner, Studio use only, NOT A SINGLE SCRATCH ON IT

$600.......

I figure with the $1000 I save I could add on any of the following...

(Drum Machine BOSS 880, or maybe the Roland Arranger Module BK-7)

Plus with our tax return $$$ we are spending $700 on a new PC.....So as Rikki and others suggested BIAB and also I will need some software for home recording.....

I get all kinds of flexibility, and I will have extra cash flow........

Thanks for all the help guys.....

Hi Steve ,
congratulations.
Bet you can't wait till the 2 weeks are up. haahaa
Take your time about what add on you want to get.
It's easier learning one then adding the other.
I made that mistake a few years ago. Bought a friends
Roland VA7, few weeks, later the Technics KN7 came out,
VA7 sat in the corner for the next 2 years till I decided to sell it. I never gave it a chance.

As for software for you new pc. Should you happen to decide to give Band in a Box a try, it comes with a seperate sequencer called Real Tracks. Doesn't get much coverage, but it should.
Real Tracks is included with BIAB, so just keep it in mind.
There's also a RealBand forum over at PG Music.

For home studio, you've even got options like One Man Band realtime arrnger software. It loads & plays yamaha formatted style data.
Styles usually need a fair bit of tweaking to get them to work with whatever soundsource you want to use, great way to get access to yammie styles though. It even has a basic sequencer, a style editor, arranger page where you type in chord progression & style parts, save as midifile.

http://www.1manband.nl/

At least you've got some time to do a bit of homework before you need to decide.

Congrats , once again.