It seems no one ever mentions the downside of Tyros 4...and I know there are things people would like or dislike about this unit. I have a few things I'd like changed on my S910 that are still IMO problems on Tyros 4.....the MFD that wont save transpose, ability to play style,SMF, Mp3 simultaneously, Bigger display screen, & I've given up on the VH/VH2 processor altogether. Tyros 4 is a very nice unit but it needs improvement....I hope that happens in future offerings very soon.

After having the Tyros4 for a few months now, I'd say the only thing I would want changed (but it can easily be worked around with a foot-switch) is the DSP-Variation switch moved to the lower left hand side of the keyboard.

So far, all I have seen is improvements over previous models. Much, much better Vocal Harmony, sweeter and more detailed overall sound, an even easier to use Audio Recorder, improved Multi-Pad control.

I've never had the need to play style, SMF and MP3 simultaneously, but that's not to say it isn't important to someone else.

Another disappointment were some of the new SA Strings voices, although, again, I have found a way around that, and actually many of the new SA string voices are very nice combined with the older Live! Strings.

Also, I find the memory expansion to be quite expensive.

No arranger is perfect, but I have to say, the Tyros4 is probably closer than any other I've played.

Ian

1. The price
2. The color
3. The width
4. lack of new authentic Latin styles

I'm not sure if those vocal backgrounds would work for me or not.


Overall I think it's a good improvement from my T2. If I were a doctor or lawer I'd buy one:)

1. Lack of really good country styles
2. No decent foot pedal available. Need a six or seven function switch similar to Ketron or Roland. NOT MFC10
3. For the most part, I could do without the vocals in many of the styles.

Don P

The annoying sound glitch which often occurs when changing panel memories when you need to hold a note until the last moment.

I would like the sound to change (without the glitch), only when I release the note I'm holding.

This isn't a problem on my Technics KN7000 which is an old keyboard now so surely Yamaha can sort this problem out.
Tony

Inability of a Music Finder record to call up a REG Bank file

no other complaints.


Anthony, I was able to eliminate that problem by assigning the different instrument voices to RT1, RT2, and RT3, so when changing panel memories, the same RT1,2,3 voices are retained, but simply activated/deactivated when changing to another REG panel memory.

For me the sound is not an issue.....I am happy with that over any arranger on the market, keyfeel is also fine for my light playing style......I'd love to hear someone play an Audya or Korg arranger in the style of Thelmo's Tyros 4 complex arrangements...I don't think it's possible, but I'd be impressed if it was.
Another thing I don't like is the wasted real estate on Yamaha keyboards Tyros is too big overall in size., look at the wasted space on the display it should be fully utilized Imo from top to bottom and touch screen also.. The color I could live with but charcoal gray or black is my preference. Do we really need the silly icons also? I would also like all inputs/outputs on the rear ALL to one side or the other like KORG Pa800 etc, units,....makes it more accessible when using a center post KB stand like my Apex, etc. Most of my needs for Tyros, or S Series are Design flaws & Navigational corrections. NOT sound and styles....except for the silly vocal voices. And for the price premium styles should be afforded to all owners for a very minimal cost.

Sounds, build quality (plastic), planned obsolescence, color.


That's about it (LOL!



R.

(OH, and PRICE!).

Russ have you ever owned or performed with a Tyros/S series model arrangers I don't recall you ever mentioning it?

I know that will work Scott but sometimes I need a complete change of voices and feel that we shouldn't be tied to certain registration panel voices when they are not what we want because of constraints in the operating system.

As I said, old Technics boards have no problem when using any voices you care to choose so I'm surprised that Yamaha can't manage the same all these years later.
Tony

As a former Techincs KN5000 owner, I definitely concur with the points you're making.
In addition, Technics keyboard's rootless jazz chord recognition was much better in ”full keyboard" mode than it is on the Tyros 4.
It was a real blow when Technics stopped producung arranger keyboards.

Does anyone know the REAL reason Technics stopped making arranger Keyboards?

No, but I would think they would be still making them if it was making them money.

Technics, Gem, Roland, so sad....

They were ahead of the game, and ahead of their time.

The KN-7000 was a real beauty...they also knew how to do a "panel" properly, and many companies, including Yamaha, Roland etc. copied some of their unique design.

It was a real surprise when they stopped production....and a real shame.

Ian

Don't count Roland out yet.
A reliable source recently told me they're currently working on a new arranger keyboard model as we speak, and may be releasing it soon.
Time will tell of course.

Id love to believe that Scott I hope it's true...maybe a BK7m included arranger of some sort?

Donny, I bought a 3000 in a moment of weakness; played about an hour and gave it to my granddaughter. I've briefly looked at all successive Yamaha arrangers, including all Tyros models; usually at Summer NAMM.

No Yamaha arranger product is for me.


It's personal preference; nothing else. All who like them, knock yourselves out!


R.

I suspect it will be based on the BK-7M...wouldn't that make it a bit like the GW-8 or Prelude?

Have you heard the BK-7M in person, Donny? If so, how does it sound compared to the GW-8/Prelude?

Maybe Fran could offer his take on it as well?

Ian

Ian Dave dumped his BK7m before I could get a chance to hear it in his studio...heard it on the phone for a few minutes too busy to make the trip to Philly... Fran kept me posted on his thoughts on the module.. I would say judging by that and online demos etc, it sounded better then the GW units but more closer to the Prelude units of which I have played. I'd be hard pressed to try another module on stage after the MidJay.....I'll stick with an all in one arranger KB for sure.

Well I see huge differences between the Tyros series and the S series. I own both a Tyros 1 and a PSR S 900. While I like the 900 for a board in the studio or a backup, there's no way I could play this on a job. It's a toy in comparison to the Tyros series. I've A B'ed them many times and there's no comparison. I need the feel of a big keyboard. Even at only 61 keys, the Tyros has that. The 900's feel like toys to me. That's just my personal opinion, but it's the one that governs what I play. I will upgrade in the future to a T 3 or T 4.

Joe

What I don't like about the T4 and the T series is generally is the sound. Compared to the Audya, the T4 is way behind the Audya in realism and sound quality.

Sound has not been an issue with me, neither, Donny...I think the reason we don't hear an Audya or Korg arranger played the style Telmo plays his Tyros4, is that these arrangers are a bit behind in realism and sound quality, in my opinion, of course.

Mind you, they still sound great, in their own unique way, but for sheer quality and realism, it is hard to beat those Yamaha SA/SA2/Mega voices.

I was quite happy with the S-Series action too, Donny...light, fast, and accurate.

I also must say, I was very impressed with the sound, and styles, of the Technics KN-7000 in the demo that Larry Hawk put up on another thread. Man, it still sounds terrific, even after all these years. That is an arranger that has really held it's value.

Ian

They said, at the time, that the keyboard side of Panasonic's (Technics owners) operation was such a tiny operation, compared with the rest of their portfolio, that it was not worth carrying on. The limited amount of profit returned after R & D costs did not warrant the effort when they could return much bigger & easier profits through the many other arms of their business.

They were not losing money but wanted to concentrate on more profitable enterprises.

It's surprising that Yamaha carry on really when they are in such a similar position and must make easier profits in their other divisions although they have the advantage of not having the amount of competition which they had to face when Technics & Roland were still making serious keyboards.

Tony

No Akai sample Import
Not able to use VST
Limited Number of layers for left hand and pedal (If connected)
No Touch Screen
Expensive Memory Upgrades
Small & Slow HDD
To get new features, you have to change the board to a later model. (Heavy knock on the finances)

In spite of the above, I still consider it one of the best arrangers out there, just not for me.

Bill

ROLAND has to come out with an AUDYA or TYROS 4 killer with more bells and whistles to survive in the top arrangers market and good price to boot, which they are not accustomed to,so it looks like just a dream so far, for all the Roland fans.

What I don’t like about Tyros is that while I don’t actually need it I’m thinking about it. That’s how contemporary economy works thought.

5. Doesn't recognize the kinds of chording I do (rootless)

Hi Paul,

What "specific" rootless chord voicings do you find the Yamaha Tyros 4 lacking?
Please cite the specific chord notes played, and your desired chord recogition results.

What (if any) other arranger keyboard brand/model includes what you're looking for?

Hi Scott,

Here's some standard,common, run of the mill rootless voicings my Tyros 2 doesn't recognize:

minor chords using a 7,3, 5 combination are interpreted as major chords with a 2nd inversion- which of course they are.

major chords in a 7,3, 5 combination are interpreted as minor chords in 2nd inversion. Again it's the same thing...

Here a simple 4 note chord ii V I sequence in F major:

FABbD= Gm7 (with a 9) EABbD=C7 (with a 9, and 13th) EGAC=F (with major 7, and 9)

My Tyros 2 recognizes this as Bb maj7, Bb maj7 with a flat 5, and Asus.

These are standard "stock" vocings, nothing new or that I made up.


Yes, Yamaha does recongnize some rootless voicings, but it's too limited for my playing style.

Wouldn't be cool with they had a rootless jazz chord setting?

I really don't know if other brands can recognize these chords or not.

I guess it's too late to edit my reply but the F major should read: EGAD (7,9,3,6)

What I don't like about the Tyros 4?
I don't own one.

I started thinking what would be a great funtion for a keyboardist that uses rootless/nonstandard/ and two handed vocings would be a looping function. You coulld play through the tune or section one time in auto-accompaniment mode and set the loop. Then you could be free to use both hand as you wish:)

Isn't that considered faking in a way, ?

Enter the " Chord Sequencer"

The Korg PA3X is the only new arranger keyboard which includes this terrific feature.

Scott I still don't buy that feature.....someone please convince me that this CS sounds good. I had it on my G1000 and NEVER used it ....jury's out until I hear its uses favorably while playing live styles witjout a glitch.

There's nothing complicated about the on the fly triggered chord sequncer feature.
At any time while playing live in auto accomp mode, you can enable the chord seq to begin rec the chords recognized by the Kb's auto accomp engine, and then when you press a button to stop recording, the auto accomp simply loops continously on the chord progression recorded. This then frees up our ability to play the entire keboard any way we want without having to play a restricted set of notes to satisfy the rigid chord recogition of an arranger's limited chorf recognition table. There's no cheating involved. in fact quite the contrary as it allows a pro keyboard player to fully maximize their playing potential and pianistic possibilities.

I hope Yamaha and Ketron will see fit to add this feature now as well.

I agree. It would be nice to see it appear on the next generation of these arrangers.

My first experience with the Chord Sequencer was on a Roland E-70, was back in the day, and I thought it was pretty handy.

Mind you, I can live without it, but I can live without lobster too...but it is nice to have it on the menu.

Ian

When I hear someone play it I Might change my mind...but up till now.....I'm not a fan at all. Fix the MFD to save all REGISTRATION information including Transpose would be a better option & utilize the whole display area increasing its size.

I'm sure one of the many new Korg PA3X owners would be more than glad to show you how the Chord Sequencer works, Donny.

I have sent your recommendations to Yamaha already, so, let's hope you get what you want in a future Tyros or PSR.

Ian

I have sent numerous emails also to Yamaha upon deaf ears...who knows maybe TYROS 9 will have a few of these improvements?

Well, Donny, all we can do is ask...meanwhile, I'm going to enjoy the instrument for what it is, not what I would wish it to be.

The latter is a waste of precious time.

Ian

Donny, I kinda of recall the PA3X's chord sequencer being demonstated in one of those Namm(?) videos.
Either way, I'm anxious for Korg to showcase this feature in one of their upcoming official PA3X videos,
as imo, it's the 'most appealing' improvement of this model.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Yeah Ian , and I suppose I could live without your live fresh flown in from 'Prince Edward Island' mussels too, but now that I've had them,
I gotta keep havin' them (steamed in white wine, garlic, shallots, spinach and pastis. Delicious!
I suspect having an 'on the fly' while performing auto accompaniment 'Chord Sequencer' feature will have the same effect.

Ah, Scott, that looks so good. Many a night on PEI, we were digging in to "a feed" of mussells.

It's hard to imagine, but lobster was actually food that was eaten by the poorer population...it was not considered the delicacy it is today.

Many were tossed back when they got caught up in the trawler nets, or taken home and eaten by the fisherman's family.

Now, it one of the most expensive seafoods.

I have a few "feeds" of lobster every season...I like it cooked (boiled), shelled, and then sauteed in butter until a tiny bit crispy. YUM!

Ian

Watch out for the GOUT with all the shell fish

Good point Donny. Thankfully I can only afford to eat these shellfish treats occasionally anyway.

I just got over 4 weeks of Gout Flareups in both feet, been on major meds to control Uric Acid in the body...it ain't no picnic, OUCH!!! was using crutches at one point....watch what you eat my friends !

I don't think a loop function would be "cheating" anymore than using styles, canned intro/endings, SMF, MP3/audio backing tracks...

For me it would be great- I could do two hand montunos or any type of chord voicings I wanted to. It would free me up so much. I'm really liking the idea. Maybe a Korg is in my future?

Yes, darn good point, Donny.

I eat shellfish very moderately...in fact, I eat everything in moderation. My weakness is the occasional big bowl of sliced strawberries and have them covered with Eagle Brand sweetened condensed milk...especially nice in the summer months.

Gout, from what I understand, is very painful.

Ian

The PA3X's 'chord sequencer' feature alone is one reason I'm still keeping a close eye on the possibility of auditioning one myself soon.
And NO, the purpose for the chord sequencer is not for cheating at all, but on the contrary,
giving us the ability to actually play left & right hand traditional keyboard comping patterns LIVE.

It all depends on the usage, I suppose.

To see someone use SMF's and "pretend" to play over them (yes, I've seen people do this) at a gig, a paying one at that, sure wouldn't do much for arranger player credibility if that person's ruse was discovered.

Maybe we'll see more Chord Sequencers on other arrangers now that Korg has initiated it's implementation, although I don't know if I would get a Korg PA3X strictly because it has one. So far, the rest of the instrument is not as impressive as it was hoped to be, at least in my opinion.

The Tyros4 does it for me...it has the sound I like.

Ian

For sure, it really comes down to sound. That's why I play Yamaha. All the bells and whistles don't mean a thing if it doesn't sound nice to your ears.

Hey gang...you know...I just read all these posts.
Oh my gosh I don't see any complaints from Telmo??? Or Robbie??
So, doesn't seem like the guy(s) that has done the most posted music for us recently has anything he needs that he does not have??

Seems like they are able to play some absolutely incrediable music for themselves and us without any issues.

Good enough for me.

No keyboard is perfect for everyone...but, based on the type of music I love to play/hear.....I think I can get by with a T4 quite nicely!

I don't currently have one, and if I did I'm sure I would have things I would complain about, but, to get myself back in line.....I will just listen to a few performances from Telmo, and others as well.

Hello there,
I have to agree with the majority here pointing out Tyros4 weakness. But, to me, in the long run, after testing Korg, Roland and some others, I realised the Tyros4 would be suitable to my musical experience. As there is NO perfect keyboardist, there won't be a perfect arranger keyboard. But if you choose any arranger, and take advantage of all its features, you can really accomplish something. Of course, no way, Tyros4 is a perfect arranger. I'd like to have more keys, speakers integrated, compatible to Vst, more expansion memory, and so on. Perhaps,if we could pick the best out of every keyboard, we might build an almost perfect killer. Take a look at youtube videos for instance: you'll find beautiful performances from several keyboardists of different manufactures. Like our dear member Montunoman states: "It's not entirely the keyboard, but the keyboardist who makes the difference". In conclusion, with all due respect to all, to me, at present, Tyros4 rules. Greetings from Brazil, Telmo.

I really don't like the voice editor on the Pc,to small window to work with.
In this time with all that nice pc synths,they cant make a new and better voice editor that works in real time like the Mox series .

Impuls

I'm may be the onky one to complaint about.
For me the size, the keyboard is to big, don't fit in my car trunk. And I realy like a keyboard with onboard speakers.

So for that I change my T3 for S-910.

Jean-Marie

Hi

I don't have a Tyros 4 but I did have a Tyros 1 a few years

ago and the main reason I got rid of it was, mainly its

appearance.

I felt it did not match up to what I'd expect to see on the

bandstand or whatever at a professional gig or performance.

I always felt I was playing a home keyboard or kids toy.

I am sure the Tyros 4 has great sounds and styles but I would

not buy one unless it had a 76 note keyboard and finished in

black, similar to the Korg PAX3 or the Roland G70 which I have

now.

Wow, Mockie...that's the first time I've heard a musician buy an instrument for what it looks like, rather than what it sounds like. But, I learn something new every day.

Personally, I wouldn't care if the Tyros4 was purple, with yellow stripes, as it has a sound like nothing else...SA/SA2 and Mega voices are exclusive to the Yamaha Tyros and give it a multi-dimensional sound, rather than the more one-dimensional offered on some other arrangers.

A friend of mine has an old Telecaster guitar, that looks pretty bad, and is an odd greenish color, but he won't use anything else because it sounds better than any other guitar he owns. I suppose he could paint it, and perhaps you could get a can of paint and a roller and do up a Tyros in whatever color you want, but, the bottom line, at least for most musicians, is the sound...not the look.

I'm sure there are more than a few people wishing the PA3Xpro sounded as good as it looks.

Ian

I had exactly the same feeling with Tyros 2/3.

I really liked the PSR-S910, and, personally, I thought it sounded terrific, and actually a bit "sweeter" sounding than the Tyros3.

The S910 is a very powerful instrument, and quite a few pros are using them.

Ian

I get what Mockie is saying. The Tyros looks plasticky and depending on the type of gigs you get presentation is almost equal to performance. Purple with yellow stripes is fine if your in a 70s tribute band, but if you want to get booked again at quality venues you better take it to the paint shop.

And he is absolutely not a minority musician caring about the look. Whilst the Tyros look is not a problem for tea dances and old folks homes, all of the high profile bands I have worked with demand a certain standard from their keyboardist

(Not wanting to drop names but you probably know WHO I am talking about, DEEP PURPLE with yellow stripes would not cut it and in your diary where bookings once were you would see only a black MARK. RONS ON the wrong track too with silver plastic, he might be out in the COLD PLAYing for beer money and that sure would STING the wallet plus he would miss the applause and only get the odd CLAP. TONy hughes would be ok though with his metal keyboard. He might even feel a right big JOHN, LORDing it over all the plastic toy keyboards which would be BAD MANNERS to put it SIMPLY. RED seems to be fine for quite a few younger bands for some reason; even if it does seem like MADNESS. but YES you might say, after buying my silver plastic keyboard wth the bright buttons i would expect money to be handed to me on a "plat ARGENT" it should be win...WIN. WOOD is required too for the bigger stuff otherwise your income will jump off the keyboard stand and vanish like a PROCUL HARUM in the night)

Stage presence is of upmost importance when your playing to a large audience and wanting to be paid well!

Yes how a keyboard looks is also important to me so I also agree with Mockie. That is also the reason I bought a PA500 Musikant because that one was black instead of the international one that was blue.

The last Yamaha arranger that looks good was the psr 9000 pro.

But of course...I have (stage presence), I do (play to large audiences) and I am (paid well).

Thank you, thank you very much.

Ian

TWD, what high profile bands did you work for that used an arranger keyboard?

Ian

No problem for me, IMHO...any of the bands you are thinking about would not have ANYONE playing an arranger keyboad.
In fact MOST (no not all ) of the time you can not hear the keyboard player AT ALL (or barely at all)...so why bother even having one, as the guitars and drums drown out everything else.

I'm like you Lee...quality sound is very important to me.

Not only that, but anyone that doesn't have quality sound as their top priority when buying a keyboard can't be too concerned about how their music sounds.

People hear with their ears, not their eyes.

They can dress up an Audya all they want, and make it out of precious metal, but it would only be like putting lipstick on a pig...it will still be a pig. The same for any other arranger or any electronic keyboard, for that matter.

The color of the case, the material it's made from, and the appearance of the buttons that activate it have nothing to do with how an arranger sounds and performs...nothing.

If it was a guitar? Yes, because the kind of material it's made from will affect the sound...same for a trumpet, acoustic piano, and even a harmonica.

The Tyros4 has a place on my keyboard stand because it sounds awesome, works very well in all genres, has an easy to use, intuitive Operating System, a great feeling FSX keybed, well laid out panel buttons, and is very reliable and very well made.

The fact that I like how it looks, is just a bonus.

Ian

In all the bands I played in, the only two things the others ever gave a toss about was - could I play, and how did I sound, ie did my keyboard SOUND match the get-go of the band......

Looks NEVER came into anything, LOL - apart from my own personal look!! Got bagged out (not sacked mind you) a few times for that!!

I have played in bands with my keyboards (Technics KN6000 / Tyros 2 / PSR 3000) and never once did anyone question what type of keyboard it was or comment on how it looked.

most band members that I have come accross(guitarists / drummers / bass players / singers) don't even know what an arranger keyboard is compared to a synth.

I have seen some live bands on TV play at very special events using cheap low end keyboards which is also surprising.

Nick

Ha ha...I think some keyboardists are more poseurs than players, Dennis...they think they need to have a certain look, or stacks of instruments, or their keyboard has to match the stand, and/or the amp...as I said before, people hear with their ears, not their eyes.

I think Montunoman (Paul) sums it up very nicely with his signature that says, "It not the keyboard, it's the keyboardist."

Ian

Paul Schaeffer plays a silver colored keyboard... shame shame

Lar

I play a Motif 6 workstation in a cover band .... would it matter to me if it was made out of silver plastic rather than silver metal ... nope. All I care about is how it sounds and feels. My audience and bandmates don't care about anything other than how it sounds.

Ask Fran Carrango how it works. He knows it from the G1000 and am sure he could take the time to explain it to you.

Why do people, and especially this topic, complain so much and focus on the negative?

I call it the "pussification" of the American male. Everyone is whining, complaining, bitching, moaning, griping, etc...

Why not focus on the positive! Be optimistic, create hope where there is none, try to get the most out of the little you have?

Life is too short to focus on the negative; embrace that plastic case?

Al, great post, especially the last comment "Life is too short",
In the last 10 days 2 friends one 58 the other 71 and another family member 84 passed away. Makes ya stop in the big picture, doesn't really matter whether it's plastic, metal, aluminum or titanium enjoy the next 24 hours and what you have today.

Have you read the Topic question

'What don't you like' means focusing on the negative

Larry

Al, good post. Also, really like the slow rotation on the horns.

GREAT GRAPHIC for a keyboard player!

Russ