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#322586 - 04/22/11 08:07 PM Re: New Songs Uploaded [Re: Bill Norrie]
Mike Aviv Offline
Member

Registered: 07/02/05
Posts: 43
Bill, I have just uploaded the songs, great stuff, thank you
Mike Aviv

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#322599 - 04/23/11 03:51 AM Re: New Songs Uploaded [Re: Bill Norrie]
Bernie9 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/02
Posts: 5507
Loc: Port Charlotte,FL,USA
Bill
I have 43 of your songs that I am going to use in vocal performance. As I previously stated, most are better than the midikaraoke songs from various sources.

As many of us know, many of these were done from scratch, resulting in great drum and bass parts that exceed Technics styles. The time and care spent on these is astounding. Also, great care was taken to use original lead and backing instruments.

Since I sing about 60% of my music, I am very grateful for the new found material.

Thank you Bill
Bernie
_________________________
pa4X 76 ,SX900, Audya 76,Yamaha S970 , vArranger, Hammond SK1, Ketron SD40, Centerpoint Space Station, Bose compact

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#322679 - 04/24/11 12:33 PM Re: New Songs Uploaded [Re: Bill Norrie]
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Bill,
You deserve to carry the honor of being a foundation on this forum. Your giving and your manner are truly appreciated by many.
I visited your site years ago and now I feel it is time for me to contribute, if needed.

One large thank you for you my friend, John C.

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#323086 - 04/28/11 07:30 AM Re: New Songs Uploaded [Re: Bill Norrie]
Anthony Johnson Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/02
Posts: 347
Loc: Sheffield Yorkshire England
Hi Bill,
Just downloaded a few of your songs and wished to thank you for your kindness and to state my appreciation of your skill on the KN7.

Your work is of such high quality that you could have worked for Technics and in particular, I found your "Conquest of Paradise" to be truly awe inspiring.
When playing songs of this quality, the Kn7 still matches the sound of the latest keyboards and I can say that as the owner of a Tyros4 besides my beloved KN7.

I spent quite a long time searching for a 6/8 style suitable for "Elizabethan Serenade" but found every style sounded too modern so I wondered if you had ever thought of having a go at this piece of music?

What marks your work out is that you try, and usually achieve, the sound of the original recording (as in Conquest of Paradise) and this song also, is quite unusual and hard to match up with the styles available.

Very best wishes to you Bill,
Tony

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#323205 - 04/30/11 05:34 AM Re: New Songs Uploaded [Re: Anthony Johnson]
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2330
Loc: North Yorkshire UK
Thanks for your kind comments Tony - They are truly appreciated......

With regard to your style for 'Elizabethan Serenade', it's not one which I have considered recording - but you never know wink

However, although the piece is written in 6/8 time, I had a brief 'play around' with it using some of the built-in 3/4 styles on the KN7000 and a few seemed to fit quite well....

For example : Try Ballroom > Vienna Dance > Variation 3 at around Tempo 135 using Flute Soloist in RT1 (Vol 127), Flute Soloist in RT2 (Vol 85) and Technichord on RT2 (Close Option), Ballad Strings on Left (Vol about 85)

Have Fun.......

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#323286 - 05/01/11 11:21 AM Re: New Songs Uploaded [Re: Bill Norrie]
Anthony Johnson Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/02
Posts: 347
Loc: Sheffield Yorkshire England
Hi Bill,
Thanks for your advice mate but I've already tried that.
Finally spent many hours taking bits from various 3/4 styles and putting them together.

The result was a couple of passable efforts but still spoilt the character of the tune by being unmistakably, a 3/4 style when I had wanted to recreate exactly, the original recording which gives the impression of being a very old tune from the virgin Queen's period.

Also tried mixing and matching all my 6/8 styles in the same way but they all sounded too modern.

Suppose I will have to settle for that or learn how to compose styles - have done a lot of style re-arranging but never actually written one myself. Don't know whether I could cope with the frustration of knowing what I want to do but finding it too hard to achieve it.

By the way, just been listening to your "Angel in blue"
Incredibly true to the original and another testimony to your talent.

Thanks again,
Tony


Edited by Anthony Johnson (05/01/11 11:25 AM)
Edit Reason: forgot a bit

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#323367 - 05/02/11 10:50 AM Re: New Songs Uploaded [Re: Anthony Johnson]
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2330
Loc: North Yorkshire UK
Hi Tony,

I would be interested to know more about your 6/8 styles, because as far as I can determine, it is not possible to create a 'True' 6/8 Time Signature style within the KN7000 Composer. Even the Built-In 6/8 March style shows up as 4/4 when copied to the Composer. I think they way it is constructed is a bit unconventional, when compared with other styles, and I would expect that your 6/8 styles are constructed in the same way.
The only available time signatures when starting from scratch in the Composer, are from 1/4 to 8/4 with no capability to change the 'denominator' of the Time Signature to 8, or indeed any other value......
What I often do in circumstances like this is to create the complete 'Style' in the Sequencer instead of the Composer, which gives much more freedom. So, instead of using the Composer for 'Backing' during playing, the entire accompaniment to the melody uses the Sequencer, but still leaves RT1, RT2 and Left parts to play Live.
Can't promise anything, but leave it with me Tony......... wink

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#323393 - 05/03/11 03:03 AM Re: New Songs Uploaded [Re: Bill Norrie]
bruno123 Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/02
Posts: 4912
Loc: West Palm Beach, FL 33417
Bill, would you elaborate on your statement below it sounds interesting.
How do you create the drum part? And if you create a piano part for the accompaniment and make it repeat?

Thank you, John C.

“What I often do in circumstances like this is to create the complete 'Style' in the Sequencer instead of the Composer, which gives much more freedom. So, instead of using the Composer for 'Backing' during playing, the entire accompaniment to the melody uses the Sequencer, but still leaves RT1, RT2 and Left parts to play Live.”

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#323397 - 05/03/11 06:21 AM Re: New Songs Uploaded [Re: bruno123]
Bill Norrie Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/16/02
Posts: 2330
Loc: North Yorkshire UK
Hi John,

Firstly, thanks for your private email - Your comments appreciated smile
A few words may help to explain......

The thing to bear in mind is that the KN7000 Built-In Styles and the Composer, are just like a Mini Sequencer, which continually repeats itself until another Variation is chosen. So essentially, there is little difference between using a Sequence, and using a 'Built-In' or Composer Style, to provide accompaniment for a song/tune. The main advantage in some cases, is that the Sequencer allows much more freedom for creating the more complex accompaniments.

There are many occasions when I wish to create a 'backing' for a song/tune, where it is not really possible to achieve a realistic interpretation of the original song/tune, using the 'normal' 4 measure repetitive style in the Composer. Sometimes, even extending the length of the Composer Variations to 8 or 16 measures also has limitations.

Some examples are :

1. The 'backing' accompaniment is quite complex and requires more than the permitted 5 Accompaniment parts (ACP1 ACP5) in the Composer.
2. The natural length of a phrase in the song/tune is greater than 16 measures.
3. There are the odd 2/4 measures 'thrown-in' to an otherwise 4/4 time signature.

Example 1.
The majority of songs/tunes which I've recorded have been implemented using the Composer to provide the accompaniment. Some just use Composer Bank A , Variations 1 through 4, but at times, I also use Composer Bank B Variations 1 through 4 and in some instances, even Composer Bank C. This provides me with up to 12 Variations, 32 Fill-Ins and of course the normal Intros and Endings.
Despite having all these Variations available, it is sometimes easier to implement parts of the Accompaniment - such as occasional 'Brass Figures' - in additional tracks of the 16 channel Sequencer, rather than within the Composer, especially if I run out of Accompaniment parts in the Composer (ACP1 - ACP5). In this case, the 'Backing' then becomes a kind of Hybrid, since rather than just using the Composer Style for Accompaniment, I use the Composer and Sequencer together, to provide a total 'Style'. Using this method, still allows Live performance of Right1, Right2 and Left parts, as normal, since I avoid using these tracks within the Sequencer.

Example 2. and 3.
Generally, the majority of music we play, naturally conforms to groups of 8, 12 or 16 measures, but occasionally, I come across songs with 17 or 18 measures within a phrase. Since the maximum length of a Variation in the KN7000 Composer is 16 measures, a phrase of this type cannot be implemented within a Single Composer Variation. The phrase could be split into two parts - say the first 8 measures into Variation 1 and the remaining 9 or 10 into Variation 2, but this can be 'messy' and I don't like this approach. Furthermore, this particular type of song/tune quite often includes 'out-of-time' measures, such as 2/4 measures in an otherwise 4/4 time signature. ( Queen's 'Bohemian Rhapsody' is a good case in point - 4/4, 5/4 and 2/4 measures !) Having set the Time Signature in the Composer to 4/4, it is not possible to momentarily change it to say 2/4 or any other base.
So, in these cases, I generally implement all, or Most of the Accompaniment, as a Sequence. When I say 'Most', I may still implement part of the 'Style', within the Composer, for instance, if the Drum Track is fairly simple and repetitive - as it often is - I would keep this in the Composer. If the Drum track is more complex, then I would include this within the Sequence, and would generally add this track, in real time.

Using the Sequencer or 'Hybrid' methods, still allows the use of the Panel Memories, to implement Voice and other Program changes, via the Sequencer's 'Control' Track, and Technichord and Chord display can still be used, by recording the chords in the APC track.

To answer your specific questions John......
As I mentioned above, if the Drum part is fairly straightforward and repetitive, I would create this in the Composer DR1 part, and if necessary use the DR2 part to add occasional accents/figures. If Drum Breaks are required, I would normally implement these in a Fill-In.
For more complex Drum parts, I use an electronic drum kit, connected to the KN7000 via MIDI, which triggers the KN7000 'Drum Kits' to allow me to create the drum track in real time, using 'The Sticks' - cheating a bit I suppose but I only use this method rarely.....

If the 'Hybrid' method of Accompaniment is being used, a Piano part can be implemented in two ways : within the Composer ACP1 - ACP5, as normal, where it will be part of a normal Style Variation. Even if the style of the Piano part varies throughout the song/tune, it can still be implemented in the Composer, by using the Variations within the Style. Alternatively, the Piano part could be implemented in one of the 16 track of the Sequencer, if there was a reason not to include it in the Composer, such as Time Signature changes.

Hope this answers your questions smile

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#323404 - 05/03/11 08:32 AM Re: New Songs Uploaded [Re: Bill Norrie]
Anthony Johnson Offline
Member

Registered: 02/03/02
Posts: 347
Loc: Sheffield Yorkshire England
Hi Bill,
You are of course, right about Technics inability to create 6/8 styles (although I had not realised this until you pointed it out).
I didn't mention, that when I was working on this tune, I was using both the KN7000 and the Tyros4 - the 6/8 styles were all Yamaha's styles and didn't fit the tune (to my satisfaction) anyway.
I did also try some Technics Ballads (such as the Summer Place ballad) and Slow rocks, but they proved impossible to use for this tune.

I always considered myself quite adept at working with the composer but this was, of course, simply changing style parts etc rather than actually composing my own - as a result, I'm full of admiration for your ability (especially after reading your reply to John's post.

I do have quite a good midi file of Elizabethan Serenade but always feel constricted when playing over a midi file rather than using the composer - always seem to lose my place and never really feel comfortable. Added to that is the fact that I have never been able to find the music for this tune either but I'm so besotted with the tune that I keep on trying to achieve (my idea of) perfection.
Thanks again Bill
Tony

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