http://www.jazzhooves.com/2011/04/korg-pa3x-pro-review/

and also a video here http://www.youtube.com/user/MusicStoreTV#p/u/1/YT8yyy2n-pU

Thanks Bill...I have sent these links to friends of mine who are a bit on the fence about the PA3Xpro.

Ian

I always suspected the pa3x got the
G70 curse....

The thing I don't get about the G-70 is that it flopped, but on the second hand market it is a huge success. I tried to get my hands on one a couple of weeks ago - it sold for $2.5k - this is a six year old board - four generations behind todays TOTL arrangers - and it still gets top dollar and rapid sales on the second hand market. Why is that? I see Tyroses, Motifs, Fantoms and other TOTL products for $0.8k - $1k all the time. It's just weird....

DocZ

I honestly don't see the point of comparing this arranger to Yamaha. Let's face it, if you LIKE Yamaha's sounds and styles, you are going to get one! The whole POINT of this is to be different. I really loved the comment about the drums being TOO real! That pretty much nails where the reviewer is coming from...

His ne plus ultra is Yamaha. I'm honestly a bit disappointed. I would expect a review like this from Ian, but someone who's JOB it is to do a review, you are supposed to be a little less biased. There are plenty of us out there that want a punchier, more lively, more upfront, and dare I say, more REAL drum sound in our equipment. Many of us play quite a lot with real drummers, and only feel comfortable, if we HAVE to use auto drums, etc, that it sound as close to a real drummer as possible. We don't play in our living rooms, playing ALW or light pop. We ROCK! We ROLL! And we want to sound like our drummer does, too..!

Let me just help everyone out there sitting on the fence.

If you like Yamaha, don't get anything else... Guess what? THEY ARE DIFFERENT! Now, if Yamaha's leave you feeling like you are listening to Muzak, then a Korg, a Ketron, even a Roland (that BK is a sleeper!) may be just what you are looking for. But if you LIKE the Yamaha's, very little else sounds like them. And, I'm sorry, but in MY book, that's a GOOD thing, not bad! But if that's the sound you are after, just buy one. Make Ian happy!

I think this reviewer is hired by Yamaha. A 6/10 hahha what a joke.

My take on the G70 resurgence is that I think a lot of live band players (got two locally who just bought one) are getting into them. IMO, they are one of the few arrangers that hold up comfortably to a full band, but you can go out and do a solo or duo on them as well (which you can't with a WS, easily), if perhaps a HAIR handicapped compared to say a T4. And, as a live performance keyboard with a band, easily the equal of anything in the WS market sound-wise (with an SRX card in), and ease of use is light years ahead of any WS.

I'm glad I got my spare. I do everything from full size real band, studio work and solo's and duos on the same piece of gear, I never have to deal with a learning curve for one keyboard for one job and another for another. Everything that I set up for live band use (splits, layers, sounds that are gig tested against a REAL drummer) I then use for solo and duo work, so I get to set the drums where the real one would sit, and my sound changes little.

That's what I'm shooting for. If I HAVE to work with a machine, I'd like it to sound as close to the live drummer as it can. G70 nails this as good as anything I have ever played. TBH, what is surprising is that ANY G70's are out there for sale. Probably home players getting rid of them. But every live band player I work with has nothing but questions about my G70. 'Where can I get one?' I'm asked all the time.

I really think Roland screwed the pooch with their marketing of the G70. They stuck it in the Mom and Pop piano stores with the KR's, and that's NOT its market... If they had kept it in MI stores, and sold it as a 'Live Stage' keyboard with TOTL SMF playback and decent arranger capabilities as an extra, it should have sold much better. MUCH better...!

I can understand why the reviewer scored the Korg so low.

Simply put, the Tyros4 has incredibly expressive sounds, and each iteration of the Tyros has arrived with more of them.

Notice I didn't say they were "better" than the Korg's.

That's because what I like to hear coming out of my speakers, is different than what someone else wants, and what I like to hear is Yamaha's characteristic overall sound.

The reviewer's disappointment in the Korg wasn't based on it not sounding as good as Yamaha...it was because the instrument did not show much improvement over the previous series...he said, "Playing the Korg takes me back to PA80. There seems to be little all change since then."

I'm not familiar with earlier Korg's so I can't agree or disagree, but I do concur 100% with his statement that "styles are the heart of any arranger keyboard".

He says, regarding the Korg, "The overall style sounds unbalanced and too clunky"

If the heart of the instrument is "unbalanced and clunky", no amount of cool features and chord sequencers will fix that...maybe a lot of reprogramming on the part of the user, but this sounds suspiciously like the issues with the PA-800/2Xpro whereby the styles didn't transition very well.

As I said in my earlier posts, I would love for the Korg to be terrific...it would have to be to compete with the Tyros4...Yamaha did their homework and improved the parts of the arranger that are most important to the intended buyer; styles and sounds. They were markedly improved from the previous models. Maybe non-Yamaha users wouldn't notice the bigger improvements, but Yamaha users did, and consequently, they wanted to buy. Not being a Korg user, I may not notice the changes as mush as a Korgian would...but the latter better darn well notice them, or they ain't gonna buy!

Did Korg do improve their sounds and styles?

So far, it doesn't appear that way, at least to the reviewer, who says he is familiar with the earlier instruments.

Maybe, another reviewer will feel differently than the one at JazzHooves?

It's still only early in the PA3Xpro's launch, so maybe Korg needs to do an OS update?

Roland had a similar issue with the G-70, but finally managed to correct it with updates, although it did have a negative effect on sales. The Roland G-70 sounds are now dated (it does have one great piano), as are the styles, but it still sells well second hand mainly because of the 76-note keybed. E-80's and E-50's aren't anywhere near as popular.

As for the PA3Xpro?

Time will tell...

Ian

I still fail to hear any TRULY significant change in Yamaha's sound since the T2. Subtle improvements, yes. New sounds, yes. A paradigm shift in Yamaha's sound..? Not really.

I'm just not sure why ONLY everything else is supposed to be radically different each new model. If incremental improvements are good enough for Yamaha, they should be good enough for every other manufacturer, too.

It really doesn't matter if YOU hear the significant changes in Yamaha's sound from Tyros to Tyros...it's hardly surprising, since you don't play them enough.

However, the changes were definitely significant enough for Yamaha users.

In Korg's case, since it's only early in the launch, it would be fair to say the jury is still out.

However, since the reviewer is equally familiar with both Korg and Yamaha arrangers, and has had hands-on experience with both, I suspect he may be right in his assessment of the Korg...certainly more accurate than I could be, since I have played only the Yamaha, and far more accurate than you, as you have played neither.

Ian

It looks more like a witch hunt to me. All these negative things about the PA3x. First the videos where too bad now the demos are too good. I have take a look in the manual of Korg and there are lots of new sounds. Yes there are also legacy sounds in the PA3X to keep it compatible with the previous models. Say they had only put new sounds in it then people started to nag about that it isn't compatible with their previous PA.

Nothing about the new PA3X seems to be right to some people.
I decided to buy my PA500 after hearing the demos on korgpa.com and I can assure you that the PA500 really sound as good as the demos and I am sure that the PA3x also sound as good if not better as the demo's. The question is only can you play that good.

Ian, you don't play Korg's much yourself, either. Yet you are PERFECTLY willing to say there's not enough of a noticeable improvement. All I'm doing is the same...

I'm pretty sure there's enough of a noticeable difference for Korg users to have them want to move, especially those with a PA1x or PA80. As quite a few have said, the difference between the T3 and T4 may not be enough for many to want the expense of the move, either. And that's from people who HAVE a Yamaha, not people unfamiliar with them.

Like yourself and Korg, for instance...

It's funny that people take these reviews serious. I see no name who wrote this review. I myself own review sites and people pay good money if you write a good review about their product or bad reviews about their competitors.

No you're not.

You are not even half qualified...you have played neither one.

Ian

I wouldn't take any one review as Gospel Truth, Frans. I'm sure there will be more posted in the near future, once the Korg gets out to more players.

Lee does have experience with both Korg and Yamaha, and, he has never been known to be biased before, but, again, it is one person's opinion.

Let's see what the future brings.

Are you going to get a PA3Xpro? Will you keep your PA-500 if you do?

Ian

That review doesn't make sense. He compare the Korg with a Yamaha and we all know how different they sound. Also rating 6/10 is a joke not to mention what he said about the drums are too real.

That site has only a few reviews not even reviews of the previous PA models. The site do have alot of articles about the Tyros 4 so I don't think the site is unbiased.

Yes Ian as soon the PA3x hits the store I will get one. No I will sell my PA-500 no need for keeping him.

I already sold my GW8.

What PA3X are you getting? The 61 or the 76?

Ian

The 61

Hey Fran, why did you sell the GW-8?
I don't think the PA3x has any new synth sounds over the PA2X.

Yes the PA3X do Nick. Haven't you read the Pa3X Advanced Edit Manual yet. There you can see the new Factory sounds,the legacy sounds and the gm2/xg sounds at chapter: "Sounds (Program Change order)"

Besides later this year I gonna buy the BK 7m as addon to my PA3x

There are elements of the review that i think are purely the preference of the writer. some people dont like contemporary styles and i know that Jazzhooves in particular prefers old school styles so i bare that in mind when i read the review. When he says the drums are too real he means too contemporary. Anything that is not part of a jazz brush kit is going to sound too 'real' for jazz hooves. However , what in my opinion is something to pay close attention to is the few issues he mentioned about some of the samples not looping correctly and not playing as the real instrument should play. It wasnt for most of the sounds so before folks jump all over this just keep it in perspective but i know lee or leezone (i alway confuse the two) has mentioned these subtle anaomalies especially when playing slower more orchestral peices Telmo style. You wont notice it in hard edged fast paced funked out/rockedout styles (which i prefer) but if you are a critical listener to sound quality it might be a consideration.

What the reviewer said that rings true in my ears is that the sounds of the korg have not progressed much further than the earlier keyboards. That's not to say that it does not sound good overall but for me that view is right on the money and i say that as a Korg User and supporter both in terms of my money and my time.

There is no getting away from the comparrison in terms of sound quality to the yamaha keyboards. Instead of adding more features to the PA products which are already immensley feature packed even going back to my old PA1X, Korg should have paid more attention to updating the quality of the sounds and the realism of the sounds.

Obviously it doesnt matter what any reviewer writes or what i write about the instrument. Folks have to go out there and try it for themselves and see if it suits them and is value for money.

Where are the other reviews of this site. And who is the writer. Site looks very biased to Yamaha. Who owns this site? I quess an employee of Yamaha.

Like I said I also have review sites (not arranger related) and get paid to write or post reviews from diverse products. That is how I earn my money

so are you saying you are biased in your reviews when you write them depending on who pays you ??? Tell me the name of your site so i can avoid it......

You didn't know that? How naive. That's marketing my friend. That's how review sites works and make their money. Only independent sites you can trust.

so help me understand this....

Yamaha , wersi, korg , bose , roland , casio and a whole bunch of other companies pay jazzhooves to write reviews on their products right ???? So who paid Jazzhooves to write the review on the korg product if it wasnt Korg ????

Let me put it to you that Korg provided Jazzhooves with a Korg Pa3X to review as they did the Pa800 previously and jazzhooves wrote a less than glowing review of the product as they did the PA800 if my memory serves me well. I assume korg then paid for that review. It doesnt sound like Jazzhlooves understood the terms of the 'deal' or perhaps, just maybe ... they were providing in their view an honest accurate review based on their experience of the product and their prefernces like we all do.

I am not paid by yamaha or Korg but some of the comments the reviewer made rang true for me. Either way Jazzhooves sounds a whole lot more honest to me than the 'untrustworthy'' review site you openly admit you make your money from......i cant say that i am shocked .

Me for one...pay NO attention to Jazzhooves reviews. They are not my kind of reviewers.

I would like Korg to send a PA3XPRO to Telmo, and then we see how it sounds!

So why can't I find that review of th PA800 on their site? I only see a review of the Tyros 4 who get a 9/10. How shocking hahaha. I don't believe they received a PA3X from Korg. Jazzhooves is no authority site. They just make it all up.

Believe what you will...

If you think the keyboard is great, thats excellent - you are Korg's target audience and you will buy this keyboard and you will have lots of fun with it.

Jazzhooves is 100% independent, no connection to manufacturers. Someone makes a great product, it gets a great review, someone makes a bad product,... gets a bad review. It's simple. A review is a personal viewpoint and for me, there are better arrangers out there, including the Ketron.

I've played arrangers since they were invented. I have owned and liked Yamahas, Ketrons, Technics, Rolands and Korgs, even a Casio.
I like the PA80 in it's time--hated the PA800 because I got an early one and it sounded awful.
I've had a PA3X for a few days and so far I love it. I'm anything but a Korg fan, but fast becoming one. Jury is still out. As much as I wanted to buy from Frank or George, I bought it from a company with an option to return for $$ within 45 days, because if I decide not to keep it, there is nothing else out there that I like better than my Roland gear.
I am probably going to use it for the first time tonight on my NY's Eve job. Maybe. Still a couple of hours of setup work I need to do and time is running out.
The Korg is extremely deep, but I think I've figured most of it out. I do know it has excellent controls for playing live.
I'll do a review later, but as with all reviews, it will be my opinion and related to how it works for ME.
DonM

I have a strong feeling about that if you give Telmo a arrangerkeyboard, whatever brand, he will make it sound heavenly!

Cheers
GJ

I thought Leigh did a great job in the PA3XPro review, and it matches the opinion of several PA3Xpro owners and former owners (those that returned the product).

It appears Spalding is correct with the statement, "...the sounds of the korg have not progressed much further than the earlier keyboards..." and, again, the users I have spoken with, and conversed via email, are of a similar opinion.

That's not to mean the Korg is a bad instrument...au contraire; it is a wonderful sounding instrument with that typical Korgian sound that you either like a lot, or, not like so much.

I happen to like the sound, even though it tends to a be a bit synthetic compared to the competition, but, again, that's the nature of the sound's design.

Feature wise, it's ahead of some competitor's instruments, and behind in others...it depends on what features are most important to the user.

I'm sure most buyers will be happy with the product.

Ian

Hi,
got me intrigued.
How long do you guys actually get to spend with a keyboard before you decide it's great or mediocre.
Sadder still would be, if potential buyers decide yes or no based on someones review.

I totally agree with you Johnny. It is all up to the talent of the musician. I think Telmo could make even a 10+ year old arranger sound exquisite.

Hi Rikki,

You're right, I'm sure there are those who will hand over a wad of cash just because some slick sales guy gave them the old waffle. I've trusted my ears for nigh on fifty years in this game and they've never let me down yet. I don't take anyone else's opinion - that's all it is, someone else's opinion. I buy and play what's right for me.

The people who do find value in these reviews are probably those with no prior experience of keyboards and, as such, reviews do have some value to them. Sales reps naturally will try to sway them to their own particular brand, but there's no substitute for one's own ears, and new buyers should pay attention their own.

I mean, you wouldn't buy a perfume just because someone else told you it was wonderful. Same with keyboards.

Nigel, you're on the money, too.

Yes Nigel+Jonny I Agree with you both, the big difference with Telmo is he doesn't talk about how good he is, he shows you how good he is, a very sincere and gentle person , I doubt him having a bad bone in his body. Some of us could learn a lot from Telmo, me included. Telmo has been a member since 2005 and only 220 postings, he listens whislt others speak.

Happy New Year Telmo.