Just wondering about your thoughts on your PA800 vs the Roland G70?...

Good luck with it!

Comparing the PA800 to the G70 is something that can hurt the feelings of die hard PA800 fans
like Uncle Dave and Zuki..

The problem with the die hard Korg fans..they don't have the G70 to A/B..
and most cases they never touched a G70..

If the only keyboard I had or played was the PA800..
I would believe it to be a fantastic instrument (and it is)..

The problem ..comparing shared features..the Korg comes up short to the Roland..

First thing that is glaring..the OS of the Korg is all over the place..too hard to locate and make changes,
especially on the fly..The G70 is much more user friendly, and has much more in the features at hand..

Sounds, collectively I find the Roland better in most if not all categories..as examples compare the scats...
The newer 2.01 OS apparently improved the acoustic piano on the Korg...it is not bad (as in good)..
it seems to only have 2 layers compared to 4 layers for the G70 piano..

I think the G70 has a better selection of pianos including EP..

Sequence playback, edits, and managing SMF's and styles..the G70 remains the best..
not just compared to the PA800..

The covers and make up tools are hard to beat on the G70..


Another area the PA800 comes up short..Effects (only 4 effect modules compared to 9 on the G70..)

The mic input and harmonizer..compared to the G70...sorry no contest..
Roland uses a smart harmony control that recognizes
the chords, in any offering..Style, Vocoder, sequences etc..
The Korg needs direction as does Yamaha and Ketron.

Personally I find the G70 harmonizer better than all offerings..

The audio inputs are a major disappointment to me..you can not run 2 mics with effects..
or a mic w/effects and another source at the same time..
The audio inputs on the G70,allow you to add eq and effects.On another mic or any source.
Speaking of mic inputs..1/4 inch on the Korg..Neutrik on the Roland.

Speaking of edits,, altering a sequence on the fly and wanting to resave it during a performance.
apparently is a no no...you need to load the tune manually into the sequencer ,
make changes and then save..
Roland definately has the better idea...

I heard from some folks how the "songbook" is superior...
sorry I don't see any advantage over the "user proram" of the G70.
They both do the job..

The major and single feature that makes the PA800 a feasible instrument for me..
is the MP3 encoder board.

It is not as quick to use as the player found on the Prelude..but it will transpose MP3's..

Korg had to design the dual player to get around down time with extra button pushes..
Evident when trying to medley
tunes on the fly..The Prelude out does the PA800 here..

But comparing the PA800 to the G70...Korg wins hands down with MP3 play..(None on G70)..


Don't get me wrong..I like the Korg PA800..unfortunaely the question asked..
to compare the PA800 to the G70..it doesn't
..and almost the same price point..
The PA800 at 29 pounds and decent speakers..
is a nice choice for a compact all in one instrument..
Sure I find the OS not suited to today's standards
and the lack of editing the G70 gives..a big negative..

Fran, I have to agree on just about every point. The 800 wasn't for me. I can see how some people would love it, but not for my kind of music and use.
I'm hoping the PA3X will address a lot of these areas.
Ketron Audya certainly did, particularly in the area of the mic inputs, vocal harmonizer and operating system.
DonM

I did like the smooth jazz styles in the Korg's though... They have that in spades over most other types.

Fran, give us a review on the strengths and weaknesses of the styles themselves...

Well, there is one thing that makes the PA800 the winner over anything in it's price range, SAMPLER, period. Now speaking from the other side of the sea, the oriental community does not care about a good piano or more effects to make the sounds better. To each his own, the G70 is a great keyboard but the PA800 is a different beast, also G70 is heavy, no speakers, and should be compared more to the PA2x as far as keys,weight,price,flagship arranger etc

The comparison between the PA800 and the G70...is because I own both units..not because they are like models..Yes the PA800 has a basic sampler and speakers..the G70 has a better keyfeel and more keys..Yes there are differences..I tried to compare shared features and sounds..

BTW: the converted PA800 styles sound better on the G70 then they do on the original PA800..After A/B ing this I was totally surprised...This is not the usual results with converted styles..

The styles do not sound bad on the PA800, but more so..sound more live played on the G70..Just another observation..

Also I agree the PA800 is more suited for the oriental market..than the G70..

Diki, I agree with you...Overall I think the styles on the PA800 are better than on the G70..Although the G70 has many great styles, it also has some styles I would never use..

The problem with the PA800 styles..they seem to be 2 variation styles combined to make a 4 variation style..in other words ..variation 1 and 2..seem too different with variation 3 and 4..The latter 2 variations always seem to be more useable...They are not as consistant as on the G70..Both have their strenghts..as you mentioned with the smooth jazz styles on the Korg...

When I get a chance I will record samples of the PA800 style played on each instrument and let you guys determine if I am correct..

Roland does make great keyboards it's too bad that the flagship arrangers have been discontinued from what it looks like, because if Roland made another high-end, it would be a killer, which would probably included some kind of sampler and maybe even audio drums.

Don' t Count them out yet..

I'm not trying to be smart here...but, it does sound like the G-70 is super and I might even want one...
SO, why the 'H' did the dumb folks at Roland quit making them?

Did sales die? If so, why if it is so super??

No, I don't want a well used one.

LOL, nah the sales did not die, but they barely got out of nappies!!!

These were ghastly when first released. Took Roland a few years to get it right, (and even then not fully) but by then the damage was truly done. The same is true for the Fantom line.

Truth is Roland are now making so much money from their piano range and piano based range of arrangers and organs that they have no desire or need to go back to producing major arranger keyboards.

They may release a "new" Fantom type synth WS, but I wouldn't be holding my breath.

The only reason they came out with the BK module was to augment the home piano range.

Roland usualy builds Top Quality units that LAST a long time inbetween releases, eg: G1000, G70, so just because we havn't seen anything in an arranger KB yet doesn't mean they still won't release anothet TOTL offering in the future...what's the rush? Just think people are still very happy with the G70 now thats a good bang for the buck I would say. I kinda miss mine & always on teh lookout for one for the studio or a backup unit.

I auditioned and played a G70 about 3-5 years ago and appreciated its solid build, loved the key feel and it's overall sound and instrument voices.

but . . .

Here are two important things (to me) that kept me from purchasing one:

1) Size and Weight: difficult to easily transpoert daily, and in a case much heavier still!

2) lack of rootless pro jazz chord recognition, of which the rest of the TOTL arranger brands (except Roland) now include as follows:

LH Smooth voicing leading II- V7 - I chord progression in all 12 keys:
Dm9: F1 -C2-E2
G13: F1-B1-E2
C69: E1-A1-D2

F13: (LH: Eb1-A1-D2) (RH: G2-C3-F3)

It's a big let down that Roland remains the only major arranger brand still not onboard with this.

They certainly are branching out in some strange, and perhaps, significant directions....this new product is arranger-based.




Very interesting indeed!

http://www.rolandconnect.com/product.php?p=at-350c

But, is there a market, and what else will follow...a piano-based arranger to augment the organ-based unit?

Ian

That's a good question Lee. Now let's compare a Korg PA500 with a Roland GW8. I own both and the big loser is the Roland. Every sound and style on the Korg is better except the synth leads which is the reason I bought a second hand GW8. The drums of the GW8 are good but not as good as the PA500. OS is much better on the Korg. And the Roland don't use pads and I and my PA500 do. A great Pro of the Roland is the MP3 playback and better GM compatible.

I'll chime in a little here, but I won't take Fran's bait to egg me into a real debate. He and I have been friends long enough for him to know that he's misguided and biased about Roland products, and he's only in the music business for the pretty girls in pink anyway, so it probably helps his "helpless old man" image when the young girls see him huffing and puffing as he wheels in what appears to be a coffin and then unveils a banquet table sized keyboard that makes him feel like he's sittin' at the dashboard of an Old's 98!

There is no way you can compare a 76 key, silent slab, overweight instrument with a portable, powered and sleek performance system. It just can't be done! LOL
Sure, they both have some of the same features, but honestly - they are aimed at 2 different markets. The buyers who need portable and powered (like me) will never have the likes of that G-Beast because it is simply too limiting for our needs. You know, I played a very small wedding once and the only amplification I needed was the internal speakers, PLUS - space was so limited that I was actually at the end of the BUFFET LINE! (serious!) I was right after the green beans and potatoes! If I had a G-70 there, I'd have no room for my amp, pole, vocal monitor, yada, yada ....

So, you see - there is no comparing these two instruments because they are different beasts...and Fran's PA800 will wind up as my spare before you know it anyway. (LOL)
Laugh it up folks - this was all meant in good fun. Except that I hated the vocal processor in the Rolands too. There is no way that a G-70 can compare to what I get out of my TC harmonies in the 800. Well, maybe the Roland scat voices sound better than I do ... but only a little! (I do LOVE that sound)

I had to demonstrate how I was playing the scat voices tonight. A customer insisted I was played "tapes". I wanted to slap her, but I was nice instead. It got me a nice tip instead of a slap back!
DonM

Tapes?....how old were they/...hahahahaha

Awful lot of opinion dressed up as FACT (especially FransN) but hey! That's SZ in a nutshell...

I think my take is that Roland saw the writing on the wall sooner than most. The market for arrangers is slowly dying out (there sure isn't a whole new generation playing them) and there's only room at the top for one to make a decent profit. So they bailed on the TOTL and MOTL segment, left it to Yamaha, and have concentrated on the low end. Each successive $1000 arranger has got better and better, and incorporated more from their old TOTL models, and in today's economy, that makes sense, IMO.

Maybe, if the economy turns round, and kids start playing arrangers in larger numbers, there's a hope they will return to TOTL production, but the market keeps shrinking, and Yamaha's share keeps growing. That's not a recipe for profits at the TOTL end. Unless you house them in a piano like shell, and charge a fortune..!

In the meantime, products like the BK-7m offer MUCH of Roland's TOTL technology (including the amazing Cover and Makeup Tools) at the @$1000 point, and that's a GOOD thing, isn't it?

They only way the new Roland module will be a success is if the styles are at least G70 quality or much BETTER....if they are just GW8/Prelude caliber of which I have played both and honestly didn't measure up AT ALL to the quality of Yamaha Ketron or Korg...it will quickly go the wayside of "Nice Try" but NO Cigar like so many other ideas that have been offered, it's a shame i personaly like Roland products & would love to see them have a winner.......another wait & see I'd say.

Or maybe, JUST maybe, others could have a better source of information than you

Don,
What are you playing the Scats on??
Can't remember...G-70?

Don Scats on a E50 now,,,

Probably 80, that's why I decided not to slap her.
Don

Awwww, come ON...! You know that isn't the SZ way..!

Let's all make our minds up before we have heard it, seen it, or played it.

If we are feeling generous, we'll wait to make our minds up until the first amateur phone-cam demo of someone playing it for the first time.

That's usually enough, isn't it?