Getting a few coins at the end of the month... Is this upgrade worth it from a S910? Keep in mind I'm studio only. Not sure I want to shell out 3K - 4K if the upgrade does not blow my socks off. Let me know as I think I'll just upgrade my motorcycle instead...

Thanks for taking the time...

in my opinion: no. The Tyros keyboards are very good instruments as is the s910, but I would never spend that much money. Got my T2 for £ 1300 used a couple of months ago. Sure, the T4 has the choirs, etc, but it does what I need it to do and it still has a few excellent sounds, as well as great styles.

3K is a serious money investment, I'd rather make a business investment than buying a T4 , or an Audya, or whatever it is.

These are all good instruments but their price tag is exaggerated, compared to the sound quality nowadays offered by software like Band in a box, Eastwest, etc

The s910 is stilll a nice instrument. Maybe consider an used T2 too if you want the keys and the sampler

In my opinion, yes...and an emphatic YES at that!

I had hoped that I'd be buying the S910 and saving some substantial money. I had the Tyros3 here for over a year and although it is a magnificent instrument, and a healthy upgrade from the old Tyros2 (more features, beefier sound to name two) it lacked the "sweetness" I liked that was present in the latter. No amount of tweaking the Tyros3 could give me that sweetness, and nothing I could do with the Tyros2 could give it the stronger sound of the Tyros3.

So, the S910, definitely had the "sweetness" of the T2 and, although it lacked the strength of the sound of the T3, it had several features of the latter that I really liked, and, it was considerably less expensive, so I figured I'd be pretty happy with the S910.

Then the Tyros4 arrived...and my plan slowly deteriorated with every minute I played this great new instrument.

Yamaha wisely saved a lot of money by not going with a new/different cabinet, and used it to do substantial upgrades to the sound engine, and, of course, to add those great new vocal patches, more SA2 and Mega voices, more new and re-worked styles, and other nice features like MP3 playback and a much larger 250G HD.

The Tyros4 has the sweetness of the Tyros2, and the strong beefy sound of the Tyros3, and comes out of the gate sounding considerably better than both of them, in my opinion.

Part of me wishes it didn't, because an S910 is a good saving, and perhaps in your case, if the money is big consideration, the S910 will continue to serve you very well, indeed...I still like playing the one here, but after playing the Tyros4, there is no contest...and no going back for me.

The people with Tyros4 that I have been in touch with, are every bit as impressed as I was...and, it sounded awesome right out of the box....I haven't tweaked the instrument one iota, and has a wonderfully strong and powerful sound, as well as a soft and delicate tone when needed.

As with any big purchase, I strongly recommend playing the instrument for a good amount of time, or if that's not possible, there should be an agreement to be able to return it if you don't find it exactly what you want, because spending this much money should give you total satisfaction.

I had other uses for the money, not all of them just for increasing the pleasure with my other hobbies, but, I believe the investment in the Tyros4 is worth it, in my case.

Good luck with your decision, Beach, and I hope you get maximum enjoyment out of whatever you decide to get.

Ian

PS...yes, I work for Yamaha, but the reasons I do are because I love their sound, and I love how they do arrangers...it was my choice to work for them, and it was based on those grounds. And Beach, I'd be a total fanboy, even if I never had any other relationship with them other than just playing and enjoying the instruments.

I think your best bet is to get one from Frank. I'm sure he has a return policy. My bet is that once you try the T4 you will be hooked and enjoy using it with your recordings far beyond any enjoyment you have had so far which is what it's all about, isn't it?

Nobody can really tell you which choice to make because they all use their own reasons and rationalizations.

Rationalizations is what keeps a lot of people from having what they really want.

I've never been thrilled about the extra money I had to spend to get a Tyros over a PSR (as nice as the PSR's are BTW). But, having played both, was it worth the extra money? You bet. No real comparision IF you're really making use of all the great sounds.

Having gone from the S910 to the Tyros4 I can Cocur with all the points Ian has made,the most important is, if you can, try it for yourself.
This may also interest you paticulary

http://www.t-2.nl/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=1&TOPIC_ID=2914&#20180

Gilbert.

Maybe a S920

I upgraded from the T2 to the T4 after trying the Pa2xpro and the Audya 4 after swearing I would never again buy another Yamaha because of the lack of drums and the ability to customize. I took a risk by buying the T4 after hearing all those great voices and styles; I tried to look past all the shoo-be-do-wah stuff and look at the meat and potatoes.

Boy, am I glad I did. After owning the T4 for a few months, I am blown away by it's sonic ability, sheer volume of top notch voices, and the great styles. Plus I didn't have to give up all those Yamaha styles I have been hoarding over the years. The FLASH ram has worked out really well for me as I do a lot of custom sampling and load times are ZERO when you power up this puppy. I love the more diverse and capable vocal harmonizer. It's just a great overall board and leaps and bounds way beyond the T2. Do yourself a favor and go and play one to experience the sound quality first hand. The string and Sax voices alone will knock your socks off.

only in the studio?.....keep the S910 for syles.....buy a KRONOS for sounds

I have owned a S910, a Tyros 3, and a Tyros 4 all at the same time so I was able to do a side by side comparison of the three. First and foremost, the S910 did not sound anything like the Tyros 4 as has been suggested. Nor did the Tyros 3 compare well to the Tyros 4. I sold the S910 and my Tyros 3 and have not once had any remorse about that.

I gig with my Tyros 4 daily and all my audiences just love the new sounds. It has been a good investment for me.

Hammer

You can't put a price on happiness I always say.
If you want something in life get it somehow and smile

Life is too short to dilly dally

I'm pretty much on the same page as Al except I never really had an interest in the Audya. I'm not using much of the vocal harmonizer but nevertheless it is much improved. Unlike years past with other arrangers at this point I can see my keeping the T4 for a very long time. In short I'm very happy with it. The s910 was a great board too, but it's just not a Tyros4.

In 'one' word . . . YES !

but with with you adding 'that' line, it depends on just 'how much' it would cut into your finances, especially now in challenging economic times.
Basic living expenses: food, shelter, and transportation I would expect, must take precedence.

Shop till you drop Donny, your the man with the money, now how do you fancy a new RED MS, BTW whatever happen to the MS, it's all gone very hush hush!

go ahead and throw your money away like all the other posters here who rationalize the crazy action of spending 3k for a frigging keyboard that will be worth 1 fourth of that not too long in the future, with excuses like 'you can't put a price on happiness'. These are the people that guarantee Yamaha producing a keyboard and slapping a 4k price tag on it.

And for what? for a few more sounds and a couple more features....

the psr910 is an excellent instrument, as it is my T2, you can make a lot of music with either. I do. Loads of music.

You only need a very good instrument: you never need the latest one....the s910 is a capable instrument. Put it in the hand of a musician like Peter Bartmanns and you would be very surprised.

Hell, with 3k I'd rather enroll in a music conservatory. At least then I know I can play.

now THAT would be money well spent, and what I call an investment.

4k for the latest keyboard with 320 mb of sounds...omg...

I will never forget the story about a man who never wanted to spend, he told his wife he wanted to take the $$$ with him. What a sight seeing that check for $ 1,000,000 that she laid on his chest as they closed the casket. Last I heard his widow is on the FiJi islands somewhere enjoying her new found wealth.

I'm now in the same boat as you guys (Steve and Al) having actually spent some quality time with this instrument, and the more I play it, the more I realize what a bargain it is...absolutely the best Sax, Guitars, Strings, Organs, Clarinets,...[phew]...let's just say pretty well the most expressive sounds in any arranger, at any price...in my opinion.

Yes, the S910 is a bargain and sounds pretty darn good, but, Beach, the power of the Tyros4 is what we guys who are particular about sound are really aiming for.

The new Vocal Harmonizer is also terrific...another nice upgrade not on the other Tyros, or the S910.

But, don't take our words for it...play one, and see, and hear, for yourself what we are raving about.

Ian

This is pretty good advice from someone that has an S910...!

I guess a lot depends on whether you do much sequencing, and replacement of the S910's sounds already, or you tend to want it easy, and everything come out of one machine, ready to go. If the latter, then the step up to the T4 is probably a good bet.

But, in all fairness, most TOTL WS's are more capable than their 'home keyboard' siblings, with fancy groove, loop and arp capabilities, usually MUCH more capable and flexible samplers, master keyboard capabilities and DAW control possibilities (sliders for track control, transport buttons, etc.) and, on the whole, better, more punchy sounds. Especially in the case of the Kronos, you get 12GB (!) of samples, ready to go. That's more than any loaded up arranger, by a factor of at least six (and more like 15 )!

And, the sad thing is, even the Kronos is likely to be less expensive than the T4. A Kronos 88, at that! The 61 will definitely be less expensive!

Another WS to take a good hard look at would be the Yamaha MotifXF. Over twice as much flash RAM as the T4, and a software KARMA module is available, if you like that. Plus full audio loop and arp capabilities, and some seriously punchy sounds.

I don't know if, at the moment, you are using the S910 solely, in the studio, or whether you already use it for the initial ideas, then flesh it out with sequencing, editing and replacement, but if you do, give the Kronos or MoXF a serious look. If you want to just get 'close enough' and do it all in the arranger, then maybe the T4 is worth the money. But that's a WHOLE chunk of change to do something that your S910 already gets 80% there as is...

Beach, If you want to know what a T4 can do for your happiness and inspiration, just watch any Telmo video. How can you put a price on that?

Spot on Al.

Al,
may I ask you what you didn't like about the Audya 4 and, more in general, your overall impression about it?
Thanks.

HI Andrea,

I liked the Live sound of the drums, the piano, organs, Rhodes, and Sax's were very good. I liked thed features geared to the performer like Pianist, Bass only, etc.

The big killer for me was reliability. I went through two units and I did not trust the unit on a live gig. I did not like the Style Creation tools. I didn't think there were enough styles in certain categories. Overall they keyboard felt like it wasn't finished. Manual was horrible, fit and finish was flimsy, screen flickered, loose connections, Operating system was kind of funky. Many users here and on other forums are actually opening up their Ketrons and fixing them themselves; replacing boards, tightening wires! On a $4000 keyboard???? Yikes!!!!

Some of the voices did not meet with today's high standards.

I think Ketron is on to something with the Audio Drums, but their execution is not very good. The support was terrible. When I called for help, I was told I could only get help on Monday's and Tuesdays on certain hours????? No distributor support Forum here in the US, no 1-800 toll free support number, heck there isn't even a registration process??????


--- Please don't bash, this is all My Opinion!!!

I haven't played or heard one live but I would really hesitate to spend 4K on an arranger for studio stuff. If you were gigging all the time and making good money- yes, I'd think it would worth it. I would also think for studio work you want invest to in software, computer, great mics, and a great workstation. In my oppinion arrangers are for live work, having fun at home, or "stratch pad" to work out ideas in the studio.

Thank you Al,
I had a feeling it could something like that.
What a pity on Ketron's part...

i think montunoman is right. If you simply want to use the instrument in the studio , £4000 on on piece of equipment is incredibly excessive. This kind of arranger is designed to make music live . You can achieve the same or similar results in the studio for a 5th of the cost and a few hours learning he technical skill to use software.

$4000 spent on the RIGHT studio gear is an investment...

Wow... Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond... Think I am more confused now.
First off let me tell you what I use the keyboard for. I use it to compose; I am not a slick musician, or even a musician like most of you folks who can do live gigs. I do pretty well on filling in the leads and what not, but I rely on the board and style to create a song. I never know what I'm going to write till I fiddle with some styles and it comes out. Heck my best hit Island Love was done on a 3000...

I have messed with the software and what not; I shelled out $500 for Sonar, a new computer new sound card and pulled out my hair for 6 months. I ended up going back to my old recording gear.

I do not have the time since I work about 50,60 hours a week at the real job and this is a nice hobby that pays a little bit of $...

I'm thinking I try used tyros 4, sell the s910 and at the end of the month see how many coins are left over and maybe add an XF.

The problem with workstations and Software is the time it takes to learn it all which I do not have. As far as the tyros demo's my socks were not blow off as everything posted like to use the vocal sounds of the unit.

I'm looking for, Rock, Pop and Latin and the rest I will not use very much....

Hey, once again thanks for the input and it's much appreciated!

then we are similar in some respects. I am a composer (not hobbyst, though) and I too hate Sonar, Cubase etc, but I have to use it too because of my sample libraries. However, I compose with the Tyros, not the computer....like you, I used to tear my hair off and went back to old ways : keyboard workstation.

As for all the rest, it's your money....

Hi Beachbum

I would also recommend the software route, however the software you choose must be designed for Live Play (Sonar & Cubase are good for production but are not ideal for spontaneity, hence you pulling your hair out)
My recommendation if you wish to include everything in the software would be Albeton Live http://www.ableton.com/live-8 which is designed for your type of work. (You can also download a free trial to see how you get on)

Another option is to use your computer as a Host to control sound selection, (Including the internal sounds of your 910) so it effectively becomes a Midi Expander/controller.
NOTE: Yamaha Arrangers are brilliant as a module. (Pretty much everything can be accessed)
My recommendation here would be Kore 2 http://www.native-instruments.com/#/en/products/producer/kore-2/?src=navi for the following reasons.

1. Sound selection (Including the internal sounds of the 910) is similar to most arranger keyboards
2. It has Performance Pre-sets (Just like the Total Pre-sets on the 910) which you can set up as you would on the 910.
3. It has over 500 sounds (5GB) of its own, and has many option sound packs available
4. It will host 3rd party VSTi, with sound selection being the same as if they were part of Kore 2
5. It is very resource efficient, as it is designed for live play
6. It comes with its own hardware controller, with mappings for most popular VSTi
7. A software trial is available so that you can see how you get on with it
NOTE: You will need your 910 Midi Manual to identify channels and voice bank and program changes (These can be stored and named in Kore 2 as you use them, thus they become part of Kore 2)

Additionally if you can find a used Wersi Abacus/Ikarus with (Or add) the OAA, you can play all Yamaha styles up to T2 without converting, and if you don’t like the sounds Wersi have programed for the styles you can use the sounds of the 910 via Midi, this is because all the Yamaha style controls are available in the OAA, and because the styles are not converted the outputs will be a 100% match for the Yamaha mapping, including Megavoices
NOTE: The Wersi can also load and play Akai samples and host VSTi, so without any additional components (Just Midi and sound connections to the 910) you have instant access to a wealth of sounds.

Hope this helps

Bill

I think it help to distinguish between the two stages of songwriting...

First is actually writing the song. Having an arranger with a wide selection of inspiring styles is your main need here, and simple operation.

BUT... the next stage is making the demo (if you are making a demo to pitch to the biz). This is the area where deciding whether the arranger ALONE is going to be sufficient to make your song stand out from the pack. Knowing what your clients listen to from others, how 'slick' they want the demos, how finished they want the arrangement (be careful... often a fully realized arrangement gets in the way of appreciating a good song) is going to be probably where you decide whether to stick with the S910, and go the WS/software route, or whether blowing most of your budget on a better arranger is the best move.

TBH, there's a certain 'blandness' about arranger demos compared to demos played by live musicians or those done by pro keyboard players using WS's, at least at the upper end of the pitching scale. And, not to put Yamaha's down, but they come in at the slicker end of even the arranger sliding scale (that's a GOOD thing if you ARE going for 'slick'!). But only YOU know who your competition is, and what level they work at. It may be a PITA to learn how to effectively substitute WS or VSTi sounds for arranger Parts, but if that's what it takes, that's what it takes.

IMO, I would be wary of thinking that a better arranger is a magic bullet. As many (including Ian, for so long!) have pointed out, an S910 is a VERY close substitute for a Tyros. Personally, in your situation, I would perhaps look at blowing my budget on more MOTL arrangers from other manufacturers. Each one has something they do BEST. Each one has sounds that theirs are the best, each one has style areas they excel at. Plus, at the end of the day, you can hook them all up to your DAW on separate MIDI ports, and have a MUCH wider selection of sounds to substitute for whatever is weakest in the arranger you made the core demo on.

But knowing what and who you are up against is 90% of the battle. If you can't match them for production values, perhaps it is time to go the other way? Many a song has been sold with nothing more than an acoustic piano or guitar backing and one vocal. If it's a great song, it sounds stronger (and more versatile) like that than a fully realized demo...

Well looks like I'm going to be adding an XF and keep the s910. Kronos won't be out to June, July my dealer tells me. Karma is coming out in April for the XF and the Sonar upgrade from 8.5 to 1X it is suppose to be easier, we will see about that but it will be only $99 to upgrade) I will also check out some more software programs and sounds, looks like another year of schooling for me but that seems to be what everyone’s using...
Thanks again for the tips and when it comes time to upgrade the 910 maybe the t4 will take a price cut or their will be the 920

So, no new motorcycle? Bummer!

Ian

Whoops... Looks like I have T4 coming my way... My dealer told me the Motif XF was on back order and I asked about the T4 and he had a used one he made me a deal on. Guy only had it about 3 weeks and upgraded t a Clavinova... So by the end of this week or beginning of next, I'll be finding out just how good the T4 is...

Thanks for the help!

Great news!

Now the LOOOOOOOOOOOONG wait for the UPS man/woman.

Congratulations and best of luck.

It's funny, I was thinking of upgrading my Motif XS to the XF to get more voices and the Flash Ram, and then the Kronos was announced; The odd keyboard out for me is the Roland Fantom G6; I just don't use it anymore.

Anyone want to buy an Roland Fantom G6 in pristine condition?

Shell out ONLY what YOU are comfortable with.

A pickup truck costs just a fraction of a Rolls Royce...

But, the Rolls Royce can't haul firewood.....







Casio WK 7500

I own the XF and I use to have the S910 along side it Midi'd together... great combination!!!

Playing in arranger mode on the S910 using sounds from the XF. It worked perfectly!

good luck with it!

Nick

How did you deal with the XF playing the style sounds? Especially the Mega-voice stuff? Did you have to re-map the style?