Ian, nice Tyros 4 example of converting Cool8Beat from straight to swing.

Ahhh, the groove I'm talking about is not the same groove feature on the Yammie or other arrangers. Midi drums must align their beats to a specific boundary specified by the limitations of the hardware/software granularity. A real drummer has an infinite level of granularity and can hit a bit anywhere in the measure. As a drummer, I can play around with the pocket by hitting the Snare on the beat of the measure; OR I can play around with the listeners head and hit the beat micro-seconds BEFORE or AFTER the beat of the measure to give the impression the beat is faster or slower. When you retard the beat a little, it gives the song more of a groove or funk kind of feel. Playing a little sooner give the listener the perception the song is moving faster.

Did I explain this correctly or are you MORE confused? LOL

Al

Al, I did understand your meaning of groove...I play drums a bit myself(not very good), but the groove or playing in the pocket, timing can also apply to keyboard solo phrasings, chord accompaniment patterns, ior even left hand bass lines, when playing in a group.

I think the Audya's drums are awesome.

My query was about being able to take Audya's audio drum patterns and edit them as described above in the Style Composer, or whatever Audya calls it.

The ability to be able to change a straight 8 to a swing 8 would, as Donny says above, double the variations of the preset styles.

I am just curious if audio drums can be "Swung" or if the user/player is locked into what groove/pattern the drummer has already laid down, or in the Audya's case, recorded?

Ian

ALl i can say is that you can do this on any professional sequencer...

So technically it should be possible to "swing" audya styles...

"Swinging" audio drums would be pretty cool...either in a sequencer or the keyboard (far handier)

I wonder if AJ, or someone with an Audya (DonM?) could post two examples (one straight 8 Beat, the other the very same style, "swung"), much like I posted earlier in the thread which were done on the Tyros4?

Ian

The ability to convert an Audya's audio loop style from 'straight to 'swing' or vise versa would be awesome.
If really possible, I'd certainly love to hear a sample of that.

I doubt it could be done internally. But many audio DAW programs can now 'snip' a loop and change straight feel to swung and vice versa.

The problem tends to come in fills... It's not so much the eighths (the core beat of the pattern) but the beats INSIDE the eighths. A simple timebase switch rarely gets those dead on. Of course, with a MIDI style, you can edit that, but audio is MUCH trickier. Requires a fair bit of hand massaging to get acceptable results.

Anyone that jacked around much with ReCycle in the early days of D&B can tell you about such things, or if you use Beat Detective with ProTools, or 'Elastic Audio' with many other DAW's, you may have run across these issues.

If the Audya's loop import features are finally completed, doing this to an audio loop would be tedious beyond what it already is on a MIDI arranger, but at least it OUGHT to be doable..

It appears that reprogramming or editing the style to swing would involve, in Audya's case, a combination of audio drums, bass and guitar parts, as well as midi parts as well, and some of the guitar parts are a combination of midi and audio, depending on the chord.

It seems like it would be a monumental job using the instrument's on board style creator/editor, but is there a program that lets you edit a Audya style in a PC?

Ian

I would think that simply recording the loops, then swinging them and slicing them, then re-import to the Audya would deal with the audio stuff. Repeat on the MIDI side (with a percentage swing quantize tool) would deal with that, too. But yes, as I have said for SO long, audio loops complicate things that are often MUCH simpler when dealing with just MIDI.

I definitely envy the Yamaha system for this feature. Roland's, I believe you have to go into each style division individually and do the quantization. A one button 'Swing value' would be a GREAT addition to the OS.

I STILL think you would probably need to massage the fills, though..

Re-listened to the audio for the changed style you did, and what I wanted to point out was about every 8th being swung nicely (in fact, that style would benefit from being swung just a little less, but I know you were making an easily heard example) but I had issues with the 16ths they were playing. A real player would have straightened those out a bit, even when the 8ths were swung as hard.

Doing this to a lot of the older, simpler styles is VERY effective, but I still have problems when more modern styles leverage the 'ghosting' and inside the beat stuff that makes the straight version of the style so tasty! Things used to be so much simpler, and back then, many things DID have a 'swing %' knob, but as patterns got more complicated, that no longer worked as well, and eventually got dropped.

But that's a great tool, Ian. Sure wish I had 'one button' swing on my Roland!