Ok gang, I just uploaded this to my YouTube channel. Here's more live unedited video footage, shot by Tapas Das , of the Korg Pa3X, as demonstrated by Malcom Doak (Korg USA) at Namm 2011. Again, the sound isn't very good (noisy background environment) but it at least offers a more in depth look & listen at the Pa3X's sound and style offerings. Thanks Malcom!

Select 1080p for optimal HD pic quality.

Part 1: (11:40):


Part 2: (09:28):


Part 3: (12:07)

I think "Part 3" perhaps sheds the most light on Pa3X's new sounds & features.

Does Korg just grab anyone to demo these units? .... I'm not trying to be funny, but honestly these are NOT demonstrators at all, I haven't seen any yet ...it's sad to watch them...I hope KORG is reading this also so maybe they will wake up and hire some qualified people who know how to present a product in a professional manner....I don't get it?

Hi everyone:

Malcolm is a good guy, he understands the arrangers, he works in Korg USA, but for what I know, he is not in the arranger division.
I know he makes his best efforts to demo with a unit that probably he has never seen. Malcolm was instrumental for us (Juan Miguel Zarate and I) to get us involved to make the Real Mexican-South-American Styles for Korg USA with Jerry K, and Chris Anthony overlooking the project.

I wish Korg will put some interest and someone in the Arranger section, I do understand the Kronos is a AWESOME workstation, but, why develop a PA3X if is not going to be promoted?....

I hope Korg could consider an "embasador" or local Demonstrator for certain regions, working in coordination with the Korg Rep. I said this, because 99% of the music stores have kids that are clueless about arrangers, "if you don't show, you don't sell".

Think about it, is like Korg have made the Kronos and have nobody to show it, it is wonderful, but if we did not heard it, how would we know it? better, How it would sell if no one knew or heard it?

Actually you guys, Malcolm is the product manager for the arranger keyboards here in the USA. He spends a lot of time at my store when he is in Los Angeles. He does know his products really well but this PA3X was just received in New York right before NAMM. As most of you know, the people who design these arrangers are Italian and only accept input from people like Malcolm and other countries product managers.

Here's my take on the Namm Korg USA team, and especially Malcolm, Korg USA Product Mgr. For whatever they may lack in arranger demonstrator polish and showmanship, they make it up 'plus more' in their genuine interest in and providing 'one-on-one' time to us the customer. Last time I was at Namm, the Korg team greeted me like a member of the family, and Malcolm spent lots of time showing me around the Pa2X as well as asking me what feature(s) I liked/didn't like about it, as well as other features I'd like to see in the future. Later that evening: Frankie, Tapas, myself, and one of the other guys on the Korg team got together for a drink and enjoyable dinner. That said, I concur with what Manuel said above.

Thanks for posting them Scott ...I had low expectations, but even then I was still disappointed....

Korg really blundered here. Either it should have been a full release, or hold it off until MM...

Dennis

George that could be the problem they should be also adding the input from THE PLAYERS & CUSTOMERS also!

You have to remember that NAMM is essentially a 'trade show', NOT a public access show, and as such, the demonstrators there are trying to sell to jaded music store owners that have seen every flash demo for every product for the last twenty years! 'Give me the important info, let me get on to the next booth' is often all a busy store owner can handle. Most of them are capable of telling the wheat from the chaff without a fancy tuxedo'ed OMB running down some dated chestnut standard.

It's the manufacturer WEBSITES that should be the final resting place of the high quality demo, IMO. As much vaporware and beta gets shown at NAMM, I rarely trust what I hear to be what I'm likely to buy. Maybe I'm just a patient guy (few of my friends will agree, mind you!), but I can usually wait until a keyboard is actually on the shelves before I need to hear a high quality demo.

Trouble is, Diki, by virtue of You Tube, this IS a public access show.

An awful lot of people outside of the industry will think to themselves that 'that's a pile of ****' without waiting for the official demos to surface. Agreed, it's their loss, but the damage is done. You put your best foot forward first, and Korg has neglected to do that here.

precisely put 124. Yamaha were clearly aware of that when they demoed the T4 live to the world and wowed us. Korg were apparently aware of this when the launched the Kronos and their teasers were definately aimed at the end user and not the trade people in the run up to its launch.

I feel for the Korg arranger product manager who basically just had his legs cut off from under him because Korg it would appear does not care about its arranger line. It isnt a good sign for ongoing product support if they couldnt even be bothered to try and sell the unit in the first place......

Sorry if what I am going to say ticks some folks off, but it is what it is.

Of course I realize that everyone wants to know everything about every product that isn't even out yet (me included ) But NAMM, National Association of Music Merchants, is a trade show. The operative words being trade and merchants. This trade show is for merchants of the musical instrument industry. It is not a public event. The complaints some of you have regarding videos shot at NAMM should not be directed at the manufacturer or distributor, but at those folks who make their way into this trade show by some means, shoot lousy videos and then upload them for the public to view. These types of videos do little to promote the instruments and as others have pointed out, actually do damage to a product. But it is not the fault of the manufacturer or distributor. As consumers, you just have to be patient and wait for demos that are aimed at consumers; as painful as that can be (for me as well).

Actually I suppose the real people at fault are the music store owners, and even sometimes manufacturers/distributors who give entrance badges to friends who really should not be there. Those non-industry people distract from what the show is all about by taking up the time of those working the show with personal questions, add to the already heavy crowd, grab giveaways that are meant for the dealer, and upload videos that have no business being seen.

Then why the Yamaha LIve Vodeo feed for all to see?

I don't know anything about a live video feed from Yamaha during NAMM. However if Yamaha provided a feed like this I'm sure they had full control over the content. I am referring to amateur videos being uploaded to internet sites, not marketing presented by a manufacturer.

Interesting as I've not read any complaints about the quality of the Namm videos shot of the Yamaha Tyros 4 or the Korg Kronos. In fact, people post here that they enjoyed these a lot. The only complaints are of the ones shot of the Korg Pa3X. hmmm.

If Namm's so strictly limited to the music manufacturers & music merchants only, should Keith Jarrett and Stevie Wonder be kept from attending too?

Here you go Dave....regarding the Live feed during NAMM 2011...

http://www.synthzone.com/forum/ubbthread..._Sho#Post312250

Thanks for the link Donny. But that is very different from what I am talking about.

Dave

I'm not sure about the Kronos, but you could use the lowest quality video recorder while jumping up and down on a Pogo Stick and shoot a video of a guy playing a melody a half-step sharp of the chords he is playing on a Tyros and there are those around here who would think it was incredible.



In my opinion, yes, absolutely. Some manufactures hire artists to demo products in their booth or for headline shows after hours. These artists get paid for their services. Personally I see no reason they should be allowed to roam around the show floor. Again, the real and only purpose of NAMM is for musical instrument manufacturers to have the opportunity to sell their products to musical instrument dealers. That's all. Anything or anyone that diminishes that opportunity should not be there. When I first started attending NAMM some 30 years ago while working for a local dealer, I was thrilled to see some of my heroes walking around with everyone else. I was young then. But having worked the other side of the track while demoing and selling for various manufacturers over the years, I have an enlightened view.

Actually David I really have to disagree with you here ( and I usually agree with most of what you write ). I am not ticked off at all, I just think you are wrong.

The days of NAMM being ONLY for dealers are LONG gone. With sites like Sonic State, Scott and Tapas' excellent videos, Yamahas constant live video streaming....

It is now a public event. Whether you want to admit it or not.
"Technically" yes, it is a trade only show, but out here in the real world it is most certainly a public event!!

Korg USA knew this, but they still went in with sub-par effort to even display the PA3 in it's best view, let alone assign any decent audio or booth resources.

In my view this was a knee-jerk reaction to the strong Yamaha showing, AND so it did not detract from the Kronos launch.

But handled correctly, Korg could have totally gazumped the entire NAMM show with their two premier keyboard releases. And it would have provided a perfect launch platform for MusikMesse (the OFFICIAL PA3 release). Instead of generating a positive vibe, KOrg have succeeded very well in dampening most, if not all the possible future interest in the USA, apart form "die-hards" like us on this forum.

It was a utter joke and a pathetic attempt, and unfortunately that is EXACTLY how folks in the US (and the rest of the world) are now seeing the PA3.

It will take a huge effort at MM, and massive marketing to undo the damage caused at NAMM.

Dennis

Hi Dave,

My beef is the same as yours, a trade/merchant show makes its way to the public at large via camera phones and You Tube. Short of confiscating every cell phone at the door I don't know how you avoid this situation. Clearly, there needs to be more vigilsnce about who they let in.

It's just the way things are now, but, in knowing that, I would have thought that any manufacturer allowing a work-in-progress unit to be displayed would have had serious second thoughts about showing their hand, so to speak. Dodgy decision in my book.

Hi Dennis,

You are probably right that Korg should have though more about the decision to show the product. My guess is there were a number of Korg folks who would have chosen to not have the PA3X out in the open and maybe only allow key dealers to view it in a hidden corner. You've got to feel for Malcom though. He surely had little time to look over the new instrument before the show started. As for the PA3X being ruined for life... come on. I say we grab a couple pints and wait for the PA3X to hit the stores.

124,

There was a time when NAMM featured a consumer day. That was cool because the dealers knew to get there work done prior to that day and the manufacturers knew not to expect much business and leaned the product demos toward the consumer. I thought that worked out well because it did allow the public to get a preview of things to come and to ask questions pertaining to their own interests. It's a shame they don't go back to that idea.

As far as 'who' they let in, in recent years, it's now far more stringent than in years past when people were able to simply borrow a badge from a friend, but now they not only check that you've got a badge, but have you show your personal ID (ie: drivers license) to verify that your Namm badge info matches the name and personal information on your personal ID. I honestly don't know how much more vigilance they can enforce more than that.

With the advent of wireless technology and live video streaming available to virtually everyone who owns a personal electronic device like a cellphone, it will be virtually impossible (if not impractical) to prevent people from bringing them in, short of airport body scanners and/or strip searches at every door. The truth is, the world's changed, and there's no turning back, so the industry had better adjust or lose out.

That said, I too think that Namm should bring back their open to the public 'consumer day'. Musik Messe has this , so why not Namm?

Dave I didn't say "ruined for for life" at all. I did'nt even use those words. Please if you are going to paraphrase, do so accurately or not at all hey?

And you know perfectly well my comments had nothing like that intent, and further, you even hinted at it being an over-reaction by suggesting I have a beer (or pints?? - we don't have them in Oz,)??

Please, if you want to maliciously misquote someone, make it someone else!

That said, yes I agree, I do feel for the demo guy, although it's not like Korg popped this out of the oven two days before NAMM is it?? The guy should have perhaps made a better effort at at least, coming to grips with it's basics.

I also agree that a public, or consumer as you put it, day on the last would be a great idea. It might even generate some tourism for California...I know I would save my $'s to make the trip!!

Dennis

All I can add is that I met Malcom at Frankieve's store in September 2008 when Frank hosted an arranger fiesta. He was a first class act and was very helpful. At the time it was prelease of the Korg DNC voices, but Malcom had them loaded on the Pa2xpro he demoed. Tony Mads and Mikey Maestro, Nedim and Lucky2be here were all there a few other members too, including John whose handle on SZ is.....prelapse ( I think? ) A J was there too. Frank was behind the scenes making sure everything went off smoothly and that everyone had plenty to eat from the catered buffet.

My apologies to you Dennis. I meant nothing malicious in any way. And sorry for re-wording what you said. As for sitting down for a couple of beers (sorry, I didn't realize the word pint was not used in your area) I was trying to point out, not so successfully apparently, that we (everyone) needs to sit back and give the manufactures some time to do what they need to do in the way of demos, etc. I was simply suggesting how nice a cold beer would be about now, as long as it's not that Fosters stuff.

Friends?

Dave

Hey Dave, of course m8, it was never any different! Thanks for the apology, appreciated and accepted

Yes I agree, that manufacturers should be given the time, as you said. But Korg have had about three years to get this right, and to lump it onto the poor Korg rep, with what seemed like a really crappy audio setup, in a very noisy part of the room, was NOT the right way to go about it, in my view...They probably didn't even give the guy a basic run through before the show!!

Like at 4.30pm on the day before NAMM......"hey Malcolm, watchu doin for the next coupla days?" "err, nothin"... "well you are now demoing this PA3 at NAMM, good luck" ...."oh by the way can you take your own monitor?"

Personally I can read through all the hoopla and see this is a really good top-notch upgrade for PA1X users, not so much for PA2X users, but possibly still worthwhile.

At MusikMesse I think will see the TRUE PA3

As for the beer m8, well we have a very healthy one here, vitamin b , or as its better known VB (or perhaps Fourex or Cascade at a pinch).

We export the Fosters stuff..we don't actually drink it!!!

Dennis

I could be very wrong, but I'm guessing the old "consumer day", a good idea indeed, was pre-cellphones. And frisking everyone for cellphones at the door is totally impractical and unworkable, so manufacturers should be careful about what they put on display. Unfortunate, but there it is. I also felt a bit sorry for Malcom Doak, it looks like he got thrown in at the deep end. Maybe it'll all turn out to be a learning experience.

Yes just open up NAMM to the public and let the pieces fall where they may..:)

What few mention, BTW, is that this NAMM is NOT the debut of the T4 by any means. Yamaha demonstrators have had considerable time to play with the final product, and craft demos that leverage its best sounds and features.

One wonders what they could have done given the same time constraints and unfamiliarity, if given a beta T4 just before a major show...

And yes, I completely agree about how SOME keyboards are given a 'pass' for lousy user videos, where others AREN'T. If ALL we knew about the T4 was floor cellphone recordings, I'm sure the general consensus (except among Yamaha devotees) would be underwhelming. In fact, I seem to remember when it DID come out, the first few user demos left many wondering what all the fuss was about.

Rumor-mongering drives the business. We have had 'little birds' whispering all KINDS of rubbish (and the very occasional truth) here at SZ since time immemorial. Trouble is, some actually take these Kreskin moments as truth!

Strangely, Yamaha get a pass for tons of pre-T4 launch hype, but this from Korg at NAMM, essentially the same thing, gets held to a higher standard. I must admit, I agree with Scott... While the Kronos and many other keyboards gets a pass for lousy user videos, the Korg PA3 seems to be almost the ONLY one that doesn't. Perhaps our prejudices are showing more than we would like to admit?

I believe that Yamaha have a MUCH more professional marketing and demoing staff, and Korg could do much to emulate them. But, OTOH, are we REALLY so sheep-like as to count on these as any way to make our OWN minds up? Marketing and demo-ing should only influence those that CAN'T play. The rest of us simply need to wait until we have our hands on the real thing to make our minds up. If you are in the market for a TOTL arranger NOW, are you honestly going to base your decision on whether to get the PA or not on just this pre-release showing? If you are, you deserve whatever you get stuck with! Buy in haste, repent at leisure...

But, as I've said before, those that have already made the manufacturer decision (Korg over Yamaha, Yamaha over Korg, whatever) neither the T4 nor the PA3 is going to change anything. And neither is a great demo or lousy one, either. As radically different in sound, styles and features as most of the TOTL arrangers are, 99% of us stick with what we already know we like.

Diki ... I have to admit most of the time you really hit the mark!! I think your comments are a very fair assesment! Play it and buy it or play it and don't buy it!!! But play it!!

Every one of these terrible demo's I see...moves me closer to a T4!
Lee S.

Then I suggest you go watch some lousy user demos of the T4, to help balance your opinions! ANY arranger can be made to sound bad...

Ok, for an 'apples to apples' comparison, here are a couple of lousy(?) 'user shot' impromptu Tyros 4 demos (utilizing a simple VidCam with built in mic) taken at a similar "new product showcase expo"
when Tyros 4 was first shown at the Okey Festival (Oct 1-4, 2010):

I don't know...Michel Vonhen's wasn't too bad...
Better than Iv'e seen from Korg PA3 so far. At least you could here a few voices/styles VH etc. The Violin/strings part was pretty good.

And it sounded like Elvis was in the building!

I love Michel's demo playing, but seriously ..... he should never sing.

OOps...that said...I definetrly should never sing :-)
But...darn it I want to.....:-(

I this he's an amazing talent, and phenomenal player ....besides that, he sings great in another language that in itself is an accomplishment.

Well, I already regret posting that - I don't mean to start a singing war .... I just think he should stick to instrumental demos, that's all.
He's so good at that, I guess it would be cruel to the rest of us if he was a singer too! lol

Believe me Voncken has the Pedigree to do it all ;:

Each day playing the T4, I marvel more and more at the quality of the voices. It's an outstanding and versatile instrument.

Great!! good luck ....how about a song for us?