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#313243 - 01/20/11 01:04 PM PA2X vs PA1X
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
I wanted to get a PA800 but really would like to stretch for a PA2X because of the keys, but won't be able to afford it, even used.

Is the PA1X so far behind the 2X ? I have heard that it is but I can't remember the reasons. Anybody would refresh my memory?
thanks

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#313246 - 01/20/11 01:12 PM Re: PA2X vs PA1X [Re: arranger_yes_pc_no]
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
No DNC (SA2 type sounds), no Guitar Mode, less FX, lots less sound ROM, etc..

If you can afford the PA800, get that and a 76 controller...

Or wait until people start dumping their PA2's to get the PA3. Prices should tumble, soon...

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#313248 - 01/20/11 01:24 PM Re: PA2X vs PA1X [Re: arranger_yes_pc_no]
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3353
Loc: The World
Originally Posted By: arranger_yes_pc_no
I wanted to get a PA800 but really would like to stretch for a PA2X because of the keys, but won't be able to afford it, even used.

Is the PA1X so far behind the 2X ? I have heard that it is but I can't remember the reasons. Anybody would refresh my memory?
thanks


There is actually less of a difference between the PA3x and the PA2x (also read PA800 apart from dual MP3 and HDD both options on the PA800) than there is between the PA1x and the PA2x.

The jump for PA1 to PA2 was very big!!
DNC,
built in dual MP3,
much neater and tweaked harmoniser settings,
48v Phantom power available to a condenser mic,
Main output 3band eq (sweepable mids),
Guitar Mode,
External Audio input to main output,
much faster graphics engine,
faster boot time (without PCM autoload on)
MUCH better keybed,
much easier style load and copy to fav banks, user banks etc, better overall styles....

There are a few more but I cannot remember them all...

On the PA3x most of it SEEMS to be tweaks of already existing PA2 features and functions (although without playing it or having access to a manual it is really difficult to be sure)..

With the main upgrades being the addition of a Chord Sequencer (almost worth buying a PA3 just for that!!), and extra assignable switch and Guitar Mode II, whatever that means.

Hope that does not confuse you too much!!!

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#313356 - 01/21/11 09:28 AM Re: PA2X vs PA1X [Re: Diki]
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
Originally Posted By: Diki
No DNC (SA2 type sounds), no Guitar Mode, less FX, lots less sound ROM, etc..

If you can afford the PA800, get that and a 76 controller...

Or wait until people start dumping their PA2's to get the PA3. Prices should tumble, soon...


thanks Diki....I have read you between the lines. Seems like the PA1X is not really worth getting. I'll go for the PA800 and see how I like it. Thanks

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#313357 - 01/21/11 09:31 AM Re: PA2X vs PA1X [Re: miden]
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
Originally Posted By: miden
Originally Posted By: arranger_yes_pc_no
I wanted to get a PA800 but really would like to stretch for a PA2X because of the keys, but won't be able to afford it, even used.

Is the PA1X so far behind the 2X ? I have heard that it is but I can't remember the reasons. Anybody would refresh my memory?
thanks


There is actually less of a difference between the PA3x and the PA2x (also read PA800 apart from dual MP3 and HDD both options on the PA800) than there is between the PA1x and the PA2x.

The jump for PA1 to PA2 was very big!!
DNC,
built in dual MP3,
much neater and tweaked harmoniser settings,
48v Phantom power available to a condenser mic,
Main output 3band eq (sweepable mids),
Guitar Mode,
External Audio input to main output,
much faster graphics engine,
faster boot time (without PCM autoload on)
MUCH better keybed,
much easier style load and copy to fav banks, user banks etc, better overall styles....

There are a few more but I cannot remember them all...

On the PA3x most of it SEEMS to be tweaks of already existing PA2 features and functions (although without playing it or having access to a manual it is really difficult to be sure)..

With the main upgrades being the addition of a Chord Sequencer (almost worth buying a PA3 just for that!!), and extra assignable switch and Guitar Mode II, whatever that means.

Hope that does not confuse you too much!!!


buying the PA3 for the chord looper ? Yes, maybe if I were crazy.... smile

thanks for all the other info about the PA2X.....seems like a much improved version of it's predecessor

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#313608 - 01/23/11 10:12 AM Re: PA2X vs PA1X [Re: arranger_yes_pc_no]
Uncle Dave Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/01/99
Posts: 10757
Loc: Philadelphia Pa, USA
Originally Posted By: arranger_yes_pc_no

buying the PA3 for the chord looper ? Yes, maybe if I were crazy.... smile


Actually, it's not so crazy - with all the new articulation options, it's great to free up your left hand for alternate controllers while playing over a chord pattern created on the fly. Like Don Mason said ... try "Sleepwalk" without it ... you can't work the bend right.
_________________________
Everyone, and everything I listen to is my teacher. Every instrument, every voice, every sound in nature ... they are all my private tutor ... 24/7 for free.

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#313763 - 01/24/11 01:20 PM Re: PA2X vs PA1X [Re: arranger_yes_pc_no]
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
I find that the large majority of musical 'bends', whether guitar, horns, synths, whatever, ALL tend to occur exactly at chord change boundaries. In fact, they are MEANT to happen there, as the bend emphasizes a musical change. Honestly, listen to 'bend-y' music carefully, and try to count just exactly how MANY bends occur just as you are supposed to change chords. It's amazing how many, and how ALL of these can't be performed if you have to use your LH to trigger the next chord.

In fact, many of music's best 'flash' moments come as chords change rapidly, during fills, turnarounds, and many other moments where, if you tie up your LH, you simply can't get them right, as they were originally played with TWO hands.

Trust me, a 'Chord Sequencer/Looper' allows you to play much closer to a two handed keyboard player or sax player, guitarist, etc.. Getting the SOUND right while not putting in the inflections that the real thing does is basically as bad as getting the sound wrong! Neither is a convincing performane.

DNC, SA, and footpedal bending can go a BIT towards mitigating this problem, but if you truly want to NAIL the sound of a sax, or guitar, or lead synth, you HAVE to have that hand free for the bender when the MUSIC wants it, not when you can spare it from inputting chords...

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#313856 - 01/25/11 04:02 AM Re: PA2X vs PA1X [Re: Diki]
tassiespirit Offline
Member

Registered: 01/25/08
Posts: 329
Loc: Devonport, Tasmania, Australia
Originally Posted By: Diki
I find that the large majority of musical 'bends', whether guitar, horns, synths, whatever, ALL tend to occur exactly at chord change boundaries. In fact, they are MEANT to happen there, as the bend emphasizes a musical change. Honestly, listen to 'bend-y' music carefully, and try to count just exactly how MANY bends occur just as you are supposed to change chords. It's amazing how many, and how ALL of these can't be performed if you have to use your LH to trigger the next chord.

In fact, many of music's best 'flash' moments come as chords change rapidly, during fills, turnarounds, and many other moments where, if you tie up your LH, you simply can't get them right, as they were originally played with TWO hands.

Trust me, a 'Chord Sequencer/Looper' allows you to play much closer to a two handed keyboard player or sax player, guitarist, etc.. Getting the SOUND right while not putting in the inflections that the real thing does is basically as bad as getting the sound wrong! Neither is a convincing performane.

DNC, SA, and footpedal bending can go a BIT towards mitigating this problem, but if you truly want to NAIL the sound of a sax, or guitar, or lead synth, you HAVE to have that hand free for the bender when the MUSIC wants it, not when you can spare it from inputting chords...


And that what makes a good professional sounding keyboard player over a home sounding keyboard player. The extra effort put into the little( but important) things. Both can sound good, butwith the C S/L it would be some more icing on the cake, IMO.
_________________________
Getting old sucks, but so do straws.

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#313912 - 01/25/11 04:03 PM Re: PA2X vs PA1X [Re: Diki]
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
Originally Posted By: Diki
I find that the large majority of musical 'bends', whether guitar, horns, synths, whatever, ALL tend to occur exactly at chord change boundaries. In fact, they are MEANT to happen there, as the bend emphasizes a musical change. Honestly, listen to 'bend-y' music carefully, and try to count just exactly how MANY bends occur just as you are supposed to change chords. It's amazing how many, and how ALL of these can't be performed if you have to use your LH to trigger the next chord.

In fact, many of music's best 'flash' moments come as chords change rapidly, during fills, turnarounds, and many other moments where, if you tie up your LH, you simply can't get them right, as they were originally played with TWO hands.

Trust me, a 'Chord Sequencer/Looper' allows you to play much closer to a two handed keyboard player or sax player, guitarist, etc.. Getting the SOUND right while not putting in the inflections that the real thing does is basically as bad as getting the sound wrong! Neither is a convincing performane.

DNC, SA, and footpedal bending can go a BIT towards mitigating this problem, but if you truly want to NAIL the sound of a sax, or guitar, or lead synth, you HAVE to have that hand free for the bender when the MUSIC wants it, not when you can spare it from inputting chords...


sorry, I need to see a lot more than this chord looper before I'll be convinced to spend almost 4 grands on a new keyboard.

As for the rest, it would be a lot better if companies allowed us to control pitch bending through the use of aftertouch.

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#314261 - 01/28/11 11:49 AM Re: PA2X vs PA1X [Re: arranger_yes_pc_no]
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2144
Loc: Columbia City, IN USA
Upgrades to newer kb's are not just about the features, functions, bell, whistles, etc...it's aso VERY much about the sound quality and realism.

As an example...I am seriously considering a T4...but the features, functions, editing, configurability, VH ect...are not even in the same ball game as a PA2/PA3. It's about the sounds.

It also depends a great deal on the type of music you play and for what purpose you use the arranger.
_________________________
Lee S.

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#314273 - 01/28/11 12:45 PM Re: PA2X vs PA1X [Re: arranger_yes_pc_no]
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
Bending goes both downwards and upwards... No way to do this with either a pedal OR aftertouch.

Plus, if you have ever seen a graphical piano roll of standard playing, you'll notice that, if you play with the full dynamics the keyboard allows you, you will ALWAYS get aftertouch messages whether you want them or not. If these are tied to pitch, you are going to get all kinds of bends where you don't want them.

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