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#310905 - 05/20/10 12:13 PM HOW SAFE IS IT BUYING GROOVE X7
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3930
Look Chaps,

You have seen what has happen to me and others are still having problems with Ketron, Ketron have a small number of dealers on the planet and I see problems with spares parts, dealer holding parts, people who use their KB to make a living and they are not reliable, I cannot even get a supplier for the UK for a GROOVE what chance would I have getting backup anything probably less chance than Ketron and that would be hellish. I think me buying a X7 is looking Leezonish.
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#310906 - 05/20/10 12:52 PM Re: HOW SAFE IS IT BUYING GROOVE X7
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 4957
Its pretty safe to buy a mediastation as its a PC with some extra peripherals and anyone with extensive knowledge of PC's can diagnose it.

Most parts are COTS (Custom of the shelf)and you can replace them yourself, some parts are custome made by lionstracs and need to be ordered by lionstracs.

So actually its easier to diagnose faults in mediastation. If you want to use the mediastation for gigging, make sure you have 2 harddisks you can use for swapping, and do not experiment on the HD wtih your stable version.


This i base on my extended knowledge of computer hardware. I have had no handson experience with mediastation however.
_________________________
Korg PA4x(76), korg Kronos 88, Ipad, Macbook, Mainstage3, Komplete Ultimate 11, Omnisphere2, Keyscape, Trilian, Serum, pianoteq5, Ivory2, Blue2, Zebra2, Diva, Hive, V/collection, Synthmaster2.8, Halion 6, Superior drummer.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#310907 - 05/20/10 01:25 PM Re: HOW SAFE IS IT BUYING GROOVE X7
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3351
Loc: The World
Quote:
Originally posted by Bachus:
Its pretty safe to buy a mediastation as its a PC with some extra peripherals and anyone with extensive knowledge of PC's can diagnose it.

Most parts are COTS (Custom of the shelf)and you can replace them yourself, some parts are custome made by lionstracs and need to be ordered by lionstracs.

So actually its easier to diagnose faults in mediastation. If you want to use the mediastation for gigging, make sure you have 2 harddisks you can use for swapping, and do not experiment on the HD wtih your stable version.


This i base on my extended knowledge of computer hardware. I have had no handson experience with mediastation however.



Actually Bachus the ONLY things that are truly "off the shelf" or bespoke (apart from power sockets-audio sockets et al), are the Asrok Mother board and ram sticks, the CPU and the power supply. Everything else ONLY works with Lionstracs propietary mainboards and daughter boards linked to other boards.

It is a bit more involved than perhaps you realise.

Dennis

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#310908 - 05/20/10 01:46 PM Re: HOW SAFE IS IT BUYING GROOVE X7
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 8134
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
Some of the circuit boards appear to be off the shelf, but in fact have modifications by Dom..To answer your question...Is it safe to purchase?...absolutely...you have access to the "boss" and a group of "know how" customers to boot..that can and will assist you if you need assistance...
_________________________


www.francarango.com

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#310909 - 05/20/10 01:56 PM Re: HOW SAFE IS IT BUYING GROOVE X7
Fran Carango Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/26/99
Posts: 8134
Loc: Levittown, Pa, USA
If you are asking if sometimes you will be pulling out your hair....the answer is YES!!!... ..but it is worth it..

Just today while playing the very acceptable G70 piano....and playing the MS with the 1 gig piano....what a difference...No one , not even Diki would select the G70 piano over this giga piano ..

And if you did the same comparison with B4 and the G70 draw bar organ (mostly because of the Leslie simulator)....The MS and B4 win again..So you can see with a little effort (Okay a lot of effort)...The MS can be made ridiculously superior to what I consider the best arranger sounds (G70)..
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www.francarango.com

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#310910 - 05/20/10 02:02 PM Re: HOW SAFE IS IT BUYING GROOVE X7
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 4957
Quote:
Originally posted by miden:

It is a bit more involved than perhaps you realise.



I must admit as an electronics engineer and Network system engineer my view of these things is somewhat different then the average user.

But most of the time with the right tools and knowledge its not that hard to figure out which parts are causing the problem.

The personal support of Dom and the experienced users may also help a lot for less experienced technicians.




[This message has been edited by Bachus (edited 05-20-2010).]
_________________________
Korg PA4x(76), korg Kronos 88, Ipad, Macbook, Mainstage3, Komplete Ultimate 11, Omnisphere2, Keyscape, Trilian, Serum, pianoteq5, Ivory2, Blue2, Zebra2, Diva, Hive, V/collection, Synthmaster2.8, Halion 6, Superior drummer.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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#310911 - 05/20/10 02:35 PM Re: HOW SAFE IS IT BUYING GROOVE X7
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3351
Loc: The World
Quote:
Originally posted by Fran Carango:
To answer your question...Is it safe to purchase?...absolutely...you have access to the "boss" and a group of "know how" customers to boot..that can and will assist you if you need assistance...


Yep, a big PLUS 1, to that Fran

Dom proves it over and over again that he will always help out when he can.

The ONLY thing you must be aware of Bachus, is he is extremely busy, so replies to queries MAY take a little longer ( although if the timing is right you can sometimes get answers almost immediately ).

The important fact is you WILL get all the help you need

In fact with the experienced user base increasing as quickly as it is, a lot of the time you will get help right here on our forum.

Dennis

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 05-20-2010).]

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#310912 - 05/22/10 12:03 AM Re: HOW SAFE IS IT BUYING GROOVE X7
LIONSTRACS Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 664
Loc: Italy
Just a note:
Now is about 15 years that I make this work, before I was supplyer from Roland Europe, Generalmusic, Solton (SG-X)and some others small companys too.
I had sell also many keyboards/module around the world.

try to search/find on the net IF one time the LIONSTRACS have stolen some money or have never shipped what the custumer have payed.

I really like to know IF ONE exist.
Same way for the all replacements parts, sometime in delay ( if was not on stock) but always shipped when request.

One example can be Midem...have ordered the PCIExpress VGA...do you get it and was working?
I gave you the all support that you have request me?

Of course sometime I'm busy too or I'm in production, for that sometime the emails have some delay.

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#310913 - 05/22/10 11:58 AM Re: HOW SAFE IS IT BUYING GROOVE X7
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3930
Quote:
Originally posted by LIONSTRACS:
Just a note:
Now is about 15 years that I make this work, before I was supplyer from Roland Europe, Generalmusic, Solton (SG-X)and some others small companys too.
I had sell also many keyboards/module around the world.

try to search/find on the net IF one time the LIONSTRACS have stolen some money or have never shipped what the custumer have payed.

I really like to know IF ONE exist.
Same way for the all replacements parts, sometime in delay ( if was not on stock) but always shipped when request.

One example can be Midem...have ordered the PCIExpress VGA...do you get it and was working?
I gave you the all support that you have request me?

Of course sometime I'm busy too or I'm in production, for that sometime the emails have some delay.


Dom
Maybe you didnít understanding what I was getting at when I said was it safe to buy a GROOVE from Lionstracs, can you understand that all that has gone on with Audya which I bought 12 months ago and we still don't have a finished product, Skude can't get his Audya fixed whatever he does and no one appears to be concerned about him, he has had real problems for months and now more serious problems, they are all playing ping pong with him,Ketron should send him a new KB and then he should return his in the box they send, him. If my new GROOVE did this would you take mine back and send me a new one that would give me confidence to buy after the Ketron. I am sure you know how Ketron work why have they not sorted Skudes KB out for him, do you think they value their customers or don't care.
BTW Skude should not be taking the top of his Audya of to replace parts whilst it is still under guarantee, a Ketron engineer should be doing it for him, frank has said it does make much on Ketron, so there is no incentive for him to keep spare part, the importer CMC will be in the same boat making a couple of bucks per KB, I donít think Skude has a hope in hell of getting his KB working properly, I would drop it down the stair and claim on the insurance. Sorry this is LIONTRACS but I am trying to compare and hope if I buy a GROOVE this wonít happen to me, I am like Skude, at the ends of the Earth.
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#310914 - 05/22/10 12:57 PM Re: HOW SAFE IS IT BUYING GROOVE X7
Irishacts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1631
Loc: Ireland
Hi Tony.
The story with Ketron is beyond a joke at this point and your bad experience with them should not effect your confidence in buying a product from Lionstracs. They are nothing a like. It's been very clear for a long time that Ketron have serious administration and resource problems within the company. Issues like that and the odd lie here and htere are the results of what has happened an it ain't going to get any better for them anytime soon.

The development on a Lionstracs product is in a different league altogether. The speed is WAY faster and once a problem is found your looking at only days for a fix, not a year like Ketron, which knowing them will likely not fix the problem entirely. As for new functions, no closed keyboard can compare to the speed and progress of an open keyboard.

It's like someone trying to compare a horse & cart to a porsche just because they are two means of travel. Ketron ain't Lionstracs & Lionstracs aint Ketron.

Buy a Lionstracs and welcome to the fast lane. Just make sure you known your limited though and don't try do a sink or swim from day one. A Groove X7 would be the ideal stepping stone for you into bigger and better things, but I'd recommend using your Pa2X for the arranger and the X7 for all your sounds until such time as your comfortable and ready to start working with the X7 has an arranger.

Regards
James

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 05-22-2010).]

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#310915 - 05/22/10 01:10 PM Re: HOW SAFE IS IT BUYING GROOVE X7
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3930
Quote:
Originally posted by Irishacts:
Hi Tony.
The story with Ketron is beyond a joke at this point and your bad experience with them should not effect your confidence in buying a product from Lionstracs. They are nothing a like. It's been very clear for a long time that Ketron have serious administration and resource problems within the company. Issues like that and the odd lie here and htere are the results of what has happened an it ain't going to get any better for them anytime soon.

The development on a Lionstracs product is in a different league altogether. The speed is WAY faster and once a problem is found your looking at only days for a fix, not a year like Ketron, which knowing them will likely not fix the problem entirely. As for new functions, no closed keyboard can compare to the speed and progress of an open keyboard.

It's like someone trying to compare a horse & cart to a porsche just because they are two means of travel. Ketron ain't Lionstracs & Lionstracs aint Ketron.

Buy a Lionstracs and welcome to the fast lane. Just make sure you known your limited though and don't try do a sink or swim from day one. A Groove X7 would be the ideal stepping stone for you into bigger and better things, but I'd recommend using your Pa2X for the arranger and the X7 for all your sounds until such time as your comfortable and ready to start working with the X7 has an arranger.

Regards
James

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 05-22-2010).]


Many thanks for that James, they will be jumping around now, I just need a source Germany is looking like it. I think you can buy direct from the factory.

Regards
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#310916 - 05/22/10 01:48 PM Re: HOW SAFE IS IT BUYING GROOVE X7
Irishacts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1631
Loc: Ireland
I'm sure Domencio will sell direct to you.
You just got to go through his web store.
http://www.lionstracs.com/store/-c-154.html

I know you mentioned your interested in the X7, but what colour tickles your fancy ?

Red or Black ?

If I can be of any help too, just fire away. Surly you have some questions you would like answered.

Cheers
James.

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#310917 - 05/22/10 02:51 PM Re: HOW SAFE IS IT BUYING GROOVE X7
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3930
Quote:
Originally posted by Irishacts:
I'm sure Domencio will sell direct to you.
You just got to go through his web store.
http://www.lionstracs.com/store/-c-154.html

I know you mentioned your interested in the X7, but what colour tickles your fancy ?

Red or Black ?

If I can be of any help too, just fire away. Surly you have some questions you would like answered.

Cheers
James.


James Sexy Red, BTW I tried to ring you last week the number on the website did not appear to be working, is it an old number.

Regards
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#310918 - 05/22/10 02:54 PM Re: HOW SAFE IS IT BUYING GROOVE X7
AFG Music Offline
Member

Registered: 03/12/09
Posts: 513
Tony Hughes maybe Domenico has even more surprises for you to with OS 4.3 next week.

I guess he maybe will make usable real-time multiple video outputs again,

or maybe bass and chord inversion for qranger!!!!!!!


simple we do not know

or...............

So next week is week of surprise.

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#310919 - 05/22/10 04:46 PM Re: HOW SAFE IS IT BUYING GROOVE X7
Irishacts Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 1631
Loc: Ireland
Quote:
Originally posted by Tony Hughes:
James Sexy Red, BTW I tried to ring you last week the number on the website did not appear to be working, is it an old number.

Regards


The Red Head huh.... very nice.

Yeah they changed the phone lines here about a week ago when laying broadband lines so I've a new number and I need to update my website.

My new number from the UK to Ireland would be.... 00353 51 399951

Cheers
James

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#310920 - 05/22/10 10:15 PM Re: HOW SAFE IS IT BUYING GROOVE X7
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3351
Loc: The World
Quote:
Originally posted by LIONSTRACS:

One example can be Midem...have ordered the PCIExpress VGA...do you get it and was working?
I gave you the all support that you have request me?

Of course sometime I'm busy too or I'm in production, for that sometime the emails have some delay.


Yes I can confirm, 100% Dom was rock solid in support. He was alos rock solid in support of some issues we were having re the LiveArranger as well..


As he said, sometimes we need to wait just a day or so as he is busy, but as I said, if you get the right timing and he happens to be there, the support is pretty much immediate.

You cannot get better service than that

So you need have no fears buying the product, and knowing you can rely on getting great help from Domenico.

Dennis

PS: By the way Dom, don't be so formal, its Dennis not Miden!!!!!

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#310921 - 05/22/10 11:10 PM Re: HOW SAFE IS IT BUYING GROOVE X7
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3930
Quote:
Originally posted by Irishacts:
The Red Head huh.... very nice.

Yeah they changed the phone lines here about a week ago when laying broadband lines so I've a new number and I need to update my website.

My new number from the UK to Ireland would be.... 00353 51 399951

Cheers
James


James,

I am selling the Audya this week and moving on the whole thing with Ketron is flawed, look on SZ Ketron you will see my thoughts on the matter. Thanks for the phone number I will give you a call next week for some purchasing advice. The telephones in Ireland have never been OK I worked at King Crisps about 30 years back and it took about 1 hr to call Manchester. Happy days are here again!
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#310922 - 05/23/10 03:59 AM Re: HOW SAFE IS IT BUYING GROOVE X7
Bachus Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/06
Posts: 4957
Quote:
Originally posted by Tony Hughes:
James,

I am selling the Audya this week and moving on the whole thing with Ketron is flawed, look on SZ Ketron you will see my thoughts on the matter. Thanks for the phone number I will give you a call next week for some purchasing advice. The telephones in Ireland have never been OK I worked at King Crisps about 30 years back and it took about 1 hr to call Manchester. Happy days are here again!


Just don't expect a flawless product when you buy a lionstracs. These instruments will have their issues and will probably allways have their little issues.

But since the issues are software, when you can make a good description of the problem, DOM can prolly fix them quickly (ATLEAST HE WILL TRY HIS BEST)


One more tip, if you need a rockstable OS for performing, never jump to a new OS/software verion on the day of release. First wayt and see what issues the early addapters have with the new software version.

Also make sure you have your original OS backed UP safely before upgrading, so you can allways make a step back when problems arise. Its a new way of thinking, if you can addapt to it, you'll be very happy with your RED (just love the looks of it) dreammachine
_________________________
Korg PA4x(76), korg Kronos 88, Ipad, Macbook, Mainstage3, Komplete Ultimate 11, Omnisphere2, Keyscape, Trilian, Serum, pianoteq5, Ivory2, Blue2, Zebra2, Diva, Hive, V/collection, Synthmaster2.8, Halion 6, Superior drummer.

http://keyszone.boards.net

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