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#309810 - 01/23/07 08:09 PM Band In A Box
santantoni Offline
Member

Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 65
Hi,just wondering... anybody knows if Band in A box can read PSR styles like OMB? Thanks

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#309811 - 01/24/07 11:40 AM Re: Band In A Box
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 4243
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi,
BIAB has it's own style format. It's also not really the same type of program.
It's great for composing songs or doing backing tracks etc but it doesn't follow chords in realtime like OMB does.

best wisheas
Rikki
Quote:
Originally posted by santantoni:
Hi,just wondering... anybody knows if Band in A box can read PSR styles like OMB? Thanks
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

Korg PA4x, Korg PA3X, PSR S950, Band in a Box 2016
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#309812 - 01/24/07 06:27 PM Re: Band In A Box
RobertG Offline
Member

Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 464
Loc: Southeastern PA, USA
Anyone ever wonder why BIAB has never added realtime chord follow? It's the one feature I always hope they would add and they just never have. I am sure they have had lots of requests for it.

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#309813 - 01/24/07 07:46 PM Re: Band In A Box
santantoni Offline
Member

Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 65
Hi Rikki,I thought that too... PG would not sell many of it's styles if the Yamaha ones could be used with BIAB. I have had BIAB for a while now,just did not dig yet into it's innumerable features...I only know how to use the basic functions. Seems a great program

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#309814 - 01/24/07 07:48 PM Re: Band In A Box
santantoni Offline
Member

Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 65
Quote:
Originally posted by RobertG:
Anyone ever wonder why BIAB has never added realtime chord follow? It's the one feature I always hope they would add and they just never have. I am sure they have had lots of requests for it.


At first the realtime chordal function would seem strange to me as well,but as Rikki pointed out,BIAB is a different kind of program...it always automatically varies basslines and so many other things
it's explained here
http://www.pgmusic.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=124119&an=0&page=1#Post124119

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#309815 - 01/25/07 01:39 PM Re: Band In A Box
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 4243
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Robert,
maybe the way BIAB is written doesn't make it a candidate for realtime arranger functions, or maybe there's really not enough people interested in using it as a realtime arranger.

Soundtrek has Jammer Live ( realtime arranger version of Jammer Pro). I read on their forum they're not going to update it which is a real pity. I've been waiting for 3 to 4 years to see if we'll ever get a Jammer Live 2.


I'd luv to have realtime arranger functions in BIAB.

best wishes
Rikki

Maybe we should start a petition & send it to PG. haahaa

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RobertG:
[B]
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

Korg PA4x, Korg PA3X, PSR S950, Band in a Box 2016
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#309816 - 01/25/07 01:59 PM Re: Band In A Box
RobertG Offline
Member

Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 464
Loc: Southeastern PA, USA
Santantoni: Thanks for the link from pgMusic. After reading that I can understand why BIAB will not add real-time functionality. It preprocesses the progression of chords to allow for maximum variety in the style played. This could not be done easily in an arranger, unless they did some type of AI predictive algorithm to "guess" what was likely to come next based on what was previously played. Rather unlikely to see that in BIAB. Wouldn't be surprised to see that from Yamaha at some point in the future.

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#309817 - 01/31/07 07:27 AM Re: Band In A Box
cajun100 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 114
Loc: Mill Valley, CA USA
I find that BIAB is extremely valuable to me for PRACTICE. Nowhere else can I really get into the chord structure (and melody lines, solos, individual parts) as easily, to play along on my MIDI keyboard. Those who have not seen the latest 2007 version should take a peek. Take a REAL peek at the new function that will pull chords and structure from MP3, WAV and related files.

For example, there are a number of "jazz riffs", intros, ending, etc. stock in the program. Call one up, play it copule of times, slow it down -- read the notation sheets and play whatever parts you wish.

Truly a marvelous program. I did not really appreciate it until I decided I needed much practice with my left hand (too much arranger time). I am sold.

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#309818 - 01/31/07 12:28 PM Re: Band In A Box
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 4243
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Cajun,
haven't actually tried that function yet.
Does it work well, & is it easy enough to use?? I'm not really an mp3 user.

I became interested in BIAB again a couple of years ago, when I came across some of the new age styles & soundtrack song files.

They're not the type of styles you usually find on arranger keyboards. Another genre it covers is classical.


The Real Drum audio loops make some of the styles sound much better too.

best wishes
Rikki


[QUOTE]Originally posted by cajun100:
[B]I Take a REAL peek at the new function that will pull chords and structure from MP3, WAV and related files.
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

Korg PA4x, Korg PA3X, PSR S950, Band in a Box 2016
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#309819 - 02/01/07 10:13 AM Re: Band In A Box
cajun100 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 114
Loc: Mill Valley, CA USA
rikki:
I have imported a number of MP3 files via the new "chord conversion" -- perhaps 6 WAV files -- most have worked fine. It's an interesting process. One or two did not come in right and produced errors, which does not surprise me. Between taking MIDI files and providing all parts in notation, and now these other conversions, the program is a real winner, in my estimation.

Try one or two MP3 files and have some fun.

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#309820 - 02/01/07 10:17 AM Re: Band In A Box
cajun100 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 114
Loc: Mill Valley, CA USA
I believe that I am about through purchasing arrangers. At least until the treatment of voices and styles is a little less predictable and the units are less costly. In fact at home I am about to link my good old Yamaha 9000 via MIDI to my computer -- and when I want to really work out, I will practice some more challenging things via BIAB and some of the new KB sounds I am playing with. I just played with George Shearing's quintet in a circa 1960 thing that I converted to BIAB from MP3 files. Muted tracks, played with rhythm, etc. etc. Terrific practice.
Using my new ArtVista "Grand" voices -- love it.

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#309821 - 02/01/07 07:48 PM Re: Band In A Box
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 4243
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Cajun,
you can take out some of the repatition
in just say a omb ( psr ) style if you want to reprogram it ie you could have slight variations when you play, major chords , min chords or 7ths etc just to make it sound a bit more interesting.
Not as varied as in BIAB though which basically chooses it's patterns randomly.

You'll have a lot more fun having your psr midied to your pc.

Now you've caught my attention. Are you saying you have an mp3 of George Shearings & you managed to mute some of the tracks & you've played those parts instead?? Sort of music minus 1 concept??

ie might I be able to for instance mute Enya's Watermark solo piano part & play it myself instead?? or has my imagination just run away with me haahaa.

best wishes
Rikki

Quote:
Originally posted by cajun100:
I just played with George Shearing's quintet in a circa 1960 thing that I converted to BIAB from MP3 files. Muted tracks, played with rhythm, etc. etc. Terrific practice.
Using my new ArtVista "Grand" voices -- love it.
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

Korg PA4x, Korg PA3X, PSR S950, Band in a Box 2016
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#309822 - 02/02/07 02:30 PM Re: Band In A Box
cajun100 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 114
Loc: Mill Valley, CA USA
rikki:
Sorry -- I misspoke. What I usually do is take MIDI files (such as George Shearing or anyone) and then mute certain tracks in BIAB (melody, for instance, solo sometimes, sometimes piano, etc.). Then I play along with my piano VST. Since MP3 to MIDI conversion is such a bloody pain, I rarely even try it. But there are SO many MIDI files available, and so many sound really fine in BIAB.
(Last evening I was playing the lead on "Mas Que Nada" -- if you know that tune): in BIAB; slowed down a bit for my cold fingers; piano comping on but I soloed melody in an electric piano mode -- worked nicely. Then I left all parts on but the piano and comped as well as I could read the notation. As I said before, this for me is very necessary practice.

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#309823 - 02/02/07 03:38 PM Re: Band In A Box
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 4243
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Cajun,
thought it sounded too good to be true haahaa,
thought pg may have taken their Copy Scat program & taken it a step further by allowing muting of instruments, not just vocal track.

Actually a combination of the two might be interesting, remove vocals from recording with copy scat then run it thru BIAB & get the chords.

Must admit, I've never really had much to do with mp3's either.

Brings another piece of software to mind. Slow Blast, have you ever tried it? Supposedly slows down cd's without changing the pitch.

I was a Richard Clayderman junkie, have most of his cd's & sheet music. A lot of the piano solo sheet music actually matches his cd's. May be a great way for me
to get a bit of piano practice in.

I've heard the name of the tune, top of my head, I haven't got a clue how it goes.

best wishes
Rikki

Quote:
Originally posted by cajun100:
rikki:
(Last evening I was playing the lead on "Mas Que Nada" -- if you know that tune): in BIAB; slowed down a bit for my cold fingers; piano comping on but I soloed melody in an electric piano mode -- worked nicely. Then I left all parts on but the piano and comped as well as I could read the notation. As I said before, this for me is very necessary practice.
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

Korg PA4x, Korg PA3X, PSR S950, Band in a Box 2016
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#309824 - 02/02/07 04:28 PM Re: Band In A Box
cajun100 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 114
Loc: Mill Valley, CA USA
I am going to experiment with the new MP3 chord recognition function by trying to COPY the chords in some way and paste them into another place, eliminating the vocal/melody/solo voice(s) ... in the process. I wonder if that might work.

I am getting fairly good chord recognition from the new function, it seems, trying about 12 MP3 files today.

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#309825 - 02/04/07 12:34 PM Re: Band In A Box
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 4243
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Cajun,
you've sort of lost me on that one.

I think you can use the chord progression you get from the mp3 & use it with a style, is that what you had in mind??

I tried the chord recognition with a couple of enya songs from one of my cd's. I actually have the matching sheet music to compare it with. On the whole it does a pretty good job of recognition.

It did some of the chords as maj instead of 7ths, but it did actually have the correct chord ie it had a Fmaj chord instead of an F7..
The songs I tried it with have fairly simple chord progressions, be interesting to see how well the software does with jazz chords.

best wishes
Rikki
Quote:
Originally posted by cajun100:
I am going to experiment with the new MP3 chord recognition function by trying to COPY the chords in some way and paste them into another place, eliminating the vocal/melody/solo voice(s) ... in the process. I wonder if that might work.

I am getting fairly good chord recognition from the new function, it seems, trying about 12 MP3 files today.
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

Korg PA4x, Korg PA3X, PSR S950, Band in a Box 2016
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#309826 - 02/04/07 06:12 PM Re: Band In A Box
cajun100 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 114
Loc: Mill Valley, CA USA
I had trouble trying to eliminate the solo/melody/vocal parts from various MP3/WAV files -- AFTER I did the chord conversion into BIAB. Object being: keep the chords; play over that with my own melody/solo.
It's possible -- it seems -- to bring the MP3 into BIAB with the chords; then COPY the chords (but not the melody line) into a new "page". This accomplishes what I am trying to do.
Remember, I am not trying to mute parts in MIDI files, but MP3/WAV songs.
So far I have had a 70% success rate.

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#309827 - 02/04/07 06:59 PM Re: Band In A Box
Vquestor Offline
Member

Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 554
Quote:
Originally posted by rikkisbears:


Brings another piece of software to mind. Slow Blast, have you ever tried it? Supposedly slows down cd's without changing the pitch.

Rikki



Rikki,

There is freeware to do the same thing
called Best Practice.

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#309828 - 02/04/07 09:06 PM Re: Band In A Box
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 4243
Loc: NSW,Australia
Thanks Vquestor,
I'll look that one up.

best wishes
Rikki

Quote:
Originally posted by Vquestor:
Rikki,

There is freeware to do the same thing
called Best Practice.
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

Korg PA4x, Korg PA3X, PSR S950, Band in a Box 2016
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

Top
#309829 - 02/22/07 08:15 AM Re: Band In A Box
santantoni Offline
Member

Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 65
Quote:
Originally posted by cajun100:
I find that BIAB is extremely valuable to me for PRACTICE. Nowhere else can I really get into the chord structure (and melody lines, solos, individual parts) as easily, to play along on my MIDI keyboard. Those who have not seen the latest 2007 version should take a peek. Take a REAL peek at the new function that will pull chords and structure from MP3, WAV and related files.

For example, there are a number of "jazz riffs", intros, ending, etc. stock in the program. Call one up, play it copule of times, slow it down -- read the notation sheets and play whatever parts you wish.

Truly a marvelous program. I did not really appreciate it until I decided I needed much practice with my left hand (too much arranger time). I am sold.


Hi Cajun,there is no doubt that BIAB is an hell of a program for practice,learning ,composition...it takes a bit of systematic learning (like 15 or 20 minutes a day) of studying the enormous features,but it's really worth.
And it continues to expand and grow...also,you don't get stuck with the sounds that you don't like,as you can use DXI instruments.
As Rikki pointed out,it has a zillion of styles,I too love the movie soundtrack and classical styles that it offers. And they are really instructional too.
I just hope that they find a way to implement intros and endings that are as good as the PSR's etc..
That is really the only weakness i see in BIAB. As far as the rest,it's an incredible program,agreed.

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#309830 - 02/22/07 08:50 AM Re: Band In A Box
cajun100 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 114
Loc: Mill Valley, CA USA
san ...

At this moment I am using:
BIAB with the "Coyote DXi" plugin.
Forte Ensemble.
ArtVista Grand Piano VSTi.
M-Audio "Key Rig" VSTi.
M-Audio Axiom 49 board.
Couple of other things.
Sound quality through my M-Audio 24/96 is more than acceptable!

You are right, having the classical and other non-"modern" music in the program is a master stroke. And when you add in the thousands of BIAB songs/styles that exist for downloading on the 'net, it is really a great package. I am learning, learning -- using the BIAB piano parts (comping, etc.) for instance. Something I have had to learn from scratch.
What a blast this is.

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#309831 - 02/22/07 01:02 PM Re: Band In A Box
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 4243
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi,
I think I may have found a way of importing a psr intro into a BIAB song. Doesn't work with real drums styles unfortunately as I can't find a way of turning them off.

I was working on it a couple of weeks ago,
but had to take a break. I've lost the thread on what I'd been experimenting with, but if you're interested I'll take another look at it.

best wishes
Rikki
Quote:
Originally posted by santantoni:
I just hope that they find a way to implement intros and endings that are as good as the PSR's etc..
That is really the only weakness i see in BIAB. As far as the rest,it's an incredible program,agreed.
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

Korg PA4x, Korg PA3X, PSR S950, Band in a Box 2016
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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#309832 - 02/22/07 02:00 PM Re: Band In A Box
cajun100 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/20/05
Posts: 114
Loc: Mill Valley, CA USA
rikki:

Can't you just disable "Real Drums" in the dialog box by unchecking "enable"? From the help file it seems that is possible. Drums then revert to MIDI.

Or did I misunderstand you?

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#309833 - 02/22/07 06:08 PM Re: Band In A Box
rikkisbears Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 4243
Loc: NSW,Australia
Hi Cajun,
sorry, didn't explain myself properly. Of course what I was experimenting with will work if I go back to using the normal midi drums in a style, instead of "real drums".

Had mum staying with us for a couple of weeks, (so computer was off limits haa haa), now I've sort of lost track of where I was up to.

Actually had it working quite well incorporating a midifile intro ( in my case a psr intro) into an actuall Band in a Box song.

Only way it used to be possible was to save BIAB song as midifile, load it into an external sequencer & cut & paste an intro into it.

Now I have to try & remember where I was up to.


best wishes
Rikki
Quote:
Originally posted by cajun100:
rikki:

Can't you just disable "Real Drums" in the dialog box by unchecking "enable"? From the help file it seems that is possible. Drums then revert to MIDI.

Or did I misunderstand you?
_________________________
best wishes
Rikki

Korg PA4x, Korg PA3X, PSR S950, Band in a Box 2016
V Arranger/Ketron SD2

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