It seems to me that with the ability to edit preset sounds in form of programs there is more chance to overload the maximum polyphony. I wonder how presets were formed in 3.0, were there also multiple sounds layered.
I never experienced dropping or muting of notes in 3.0, now in some rich styles (Partybeat) after a FILL, base sound is dropped or crash (cymbal) is shortened. I wonder how to avoid such situations.
Luka

I've noticed dropouts with 4.0 also. It seems the polyphony is less, not more.
When playing full piano (8-9 note chord solos) with sequences and on some styles, some notes will either not play or will not sustain. It's not often, but still annoying.
It never happened with the same sequences or styles with 3.0.
Is there a reason or solution?

What I decided to try is to change the amount of voices in those ''too rich'' styles. For example: there is a preset Fantasy on Lower1, this preset is made of two sounds, I mute the second (with new feature to edit presets), if I play now 4 note chord I believe to free 4 voices. On the other hand I have to be satisfied with modified Fantasy preset.
Maybe this is one way.
Ideas appreciated!
Luka

Well can someone explain to me why it happens on Midi files? I never notice it on styles.

But both 3.0 and 4.0 it happens.

what's strange is that my old Korg I2 would experience drop out if there was too much polyphony, but I always adjusted it so that wouldn't be a problem.

How come on songs that worked fine on my Korg, they experience drop out on the SD1? The 3.0 started with DOUBLE the polyphony of the Korg, and now the 4.0 has apparently even more?????

Am I not correct in assuming all midi instruments are those quote/unquote normal instruments that count as normal polyphony?

So the only thing would be my piano, which by the way is the only thing I'm using during the midi file. Grand piano, pianist function on, with no second voice.

Can anyone explain it?

Team,

We are addressing this in 4.0b - soon to be released on our website. This will also allow for the installation of 4.0 functions while you maintain 3.0 (or later) sounds.

Thanks,

AJ

Dear AJ,
Can you please fix the same problem on the XD3 as well???!!! I know you are very bussy and it seems that you are the only one who can fix all these bugs. But... is veeery annoying especially with the bass line droped notes.
THANK YOU!!!!!

Justforfun,
this is the way I see it in my humble theory. Lets presume the worst case - 2 oscillators per every sound: piano preset is combination of three sounds, one key pressed produces 6 voices, if you play 6 note chord you produce 36 voices. Now add voices from your sequence: maybe 4 note strings chord (8 voices), 4 note guitar 8 voices, bas 2 voices, drums, another piano etc…
If your Korg used only one oscillator per sound, it probably made it without dropping notes even with 32 polyphony.
Maybe the others can comment this thoughts, I hope I'm not completely wrong
Luka


[This message has been edited by Luka (edited 04-17-2003).]

Ahhh. I guess I mixed the explanation that the midi sounds used any more than one oscillator. I knew the piano did, but not the sequence.

That would explain it totally. Thanks.

And what if we understand the problem??? Should we play piano only with three fingers from now on??? Now I understand why AJ call us "team", we are just testing Ketron's experiments on our expences!!!! Yes, Ketron has a great team of pasionate and enthusiastic fools.
Please excuse my anger!! I am speaking about me alone.

Sorry AJ, you're doing a great job and for sure Ketron sold lots of products only because of your hard work. Unfortunately this is not enough.
Flavi - Team member

Friends,

As you all know, it is not easy designing a machine that will be able to satisfy everyone, but thanks to new FLASH, we are able to use software to make more modifications and adjustments today than we were able to do previously.

When we advertise a product as having 64notes max. polyphony, this is the 'total' number of voices that can be reproduced at any given time. Now in order to produce the 'rich' voices that Ketron uses in the new keyboards, we've had to use more than 1 voice on many of the sounds, e.g the Piano uses 3-5 samples (each one representing a note) per key - so depending on the velocity, when you press say a C-note, you might actually be generating 4-5 notes (internaly to reproduce that sound) even though you only pressed one key! When you move on to the Violin and other String instruments, these numbers go up tremendously! With that said, imagine using such voices within the Arranger and then you attempt to play similar voices ... you can now see how 64 notes can very easily be maxed out - not to talk about the live drums.
Now was this an error in design? Given the technology then, NO. With the current software soon to be released (OS4.0b) this polphony will be further increased and made more efficient so you do not exprerience notes that you play dropping out should you reach the new maximum polyphony. Given the current technology, the ratio of voice olyphony is pretty close (what do I mean?) if we use say the Sd1 with 64 note polyphony and use voices with 5notes each, tomorrow we could design a keyboard say with 300 notes (and everyone would go yeah...) but that would be good if we remained at 6notes per sound. What if we decided to go up and reproduce yet purrer sounds with sounds that had eg 30 notes? You would still be able to run out of polyphony - see my point?

However, with new technology, we are duing some serious research into new products that will be outstanding since we intend to revolutionize the art of capturing sound!

Flavie, no you are not testers of Ketron's experiments and it saddens me that you would think this way. It is your ideas (and others) that we try to implement either within current products (if feasable) or within new ones; our policy still remains (as we've proven with our new software releases) we listen to our customers. Should you stumble across something that doesn't sit right, feel free to sent me an email and I will try and do what I can to make it right, but remember, even with new software, there are some limits. When I refered to you as a team, I did so in good faith meaning were were all in this together, but I guess, I will start using 'friends' now.

Best regards to all.

AJ

Ketron support is unique! It should be an example to every manufacturer in the world.
Luka

Dear AJ, I have to accept that I was overreacting.
But I can explain. Now, after 5 months of daily XD3 using, I can say that this machine is a very good concept and a handy tool if it only works well!
What's the use of those great sounds if the poliphony is very easily maxed out? I really love the Precision bass and the drums and many other sounds, but when the bass line is droping notes even when I play in bass & drums mode, this really drives me crazy. Not to mention the other problems I have that I've been posting many times and NOBODY in the team helped me:
1. I cannot save modified midi filters
2. I cannot save user drum sets
3. The keyboard crushes in the middle of the song and need to reboot and some times shows the "I/O disk error" message, that freezes the module for some long seconds.
Please belive me AJ that I was looking for your email address but I did not find it. I finnaly understand that you are just too busy to work on all the Ketron products at the same time. You have to fix 4.0 for SD1, some problems in XD3/9 as well and of course the new 4.0 for X1. Only for one person, is way to much!! Is so pitty that Ketron does not invest some more in the programing section. They should hire more enginears.
I will continue to suport Ketron products because I like the ideea, but I need a reliable machine.
Yours! Flavie

Yes Luka you're right!! I totaly agree that Ketron support is unique! And that's they're only chance to compete with the big sharks. The diference is that is that the big sharks do not seem to listen to the users opinnion but produce top RELIABLE keyboards. Ketron is a new brand that realy needs our suport! I've been to Japan and China with my XD3 and NOBODY heard of Ketron. In Europe is almost the same situation, and even if some heard of Ketron, they don't want to take the risk. Here in China a lot of good musicians come to my venue and asked me about this new brand and I was very happy to impress them with my performances. Yes XD3 is a very good ideea but so far not very reliable. That's why Ketron is offering such unique support, looking for our suport in the same time. I wish Ketron to became THE BIGEST arranger manufacturer in the world! But stil; only one person who does all the programing??????
Happy Easter! Flavie

Hey, Flavie,
I'm a little late, somehow I missed your last post.
I must agree with you to some extend, I just feel I'm a bit more patient than you, probably I perform less, and from all the good keyboards SD1 suits me the most and my experience with Ketron is that I trust them a lot.
I hope your problems to be solved soon!
Luka


[This message has been edited by Luka (edited 04-27-2003).]

The fact that Ketron_AJ, an official representative of the Ketron company, moderates this online forum indicates their dedication to their user base. AJ answers all questions directly which is much more than you will get from ANY other keyboard company online. He is the best source of Ketron information that you can find. The only other company which has a respresentative responding on the Synth Zone BBS is Yamaha.