Dennis,

OK.

[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 12-29-2010).]

Sweet..np

James...I really enjoyed your performance.

OK...here is my take...IF you are as talented as James....(a lot of you here are) then you really may not nead an arranger at all. Even though it can still be great and especially for live play in a audience 'request' mode. Certinly not needed in a studio environment.

Me, I need an arranger because I am not that musically talented...it helps me sound decent and sometimes professional even though I am not. As long as the style I need is available

Can't carry a tune...so singing is out..which means any keyboard I have MUST have top notch very realistic sounds.

So that's where some of my dissappointment comes in. The T2 was nice but some sounds had problems, the Korg PA2XPRO is good, but again some sounds have issues. These problems I speak about can ruin a performance the way I PLAY!

So, I will spend lots of time checking out the T4 AND the new PA3XPRO...IF either one satisfies my need for the quality sound...I will buy. If not I will wait longer.


The mediasation IS NOT AN OPTION for me. I currently do not consider it an arranger keyboard. If that changes...I will look at it. IMHO the only way it will change is if DOM licences the right for the Yamaha style playing like Wersi did. It must work perfect and it must support a FULL XG amd Meha sound set that sounds great with Yamaha styles. He was on the right track with Live-Styler, but fell off.
Lee S.

I own a Mediastation. I'm very happy with it. It's the BRAIN that controls all my "arrangers". I can do many things with it like surf the web, play along with videos and Mp3, play many Vsti from all the keyboards and do everything else you can imagine it is posible to do with any computer. But it's NOT an arranger. The Psr s900 and Pa500 are the HEART of my set up. Period.

It wasnt a negative comment donny. It was a factual one. The MS is agreat workstation at least as far as it has been demonstrated . Can the same be said for its arranger features ? Not even James will say that. Lets not kid each other. The MS has arranger features yes but it is not an instrument that 99% of arranger users could use or would be willing to put in the serious man hours to use. The demos that i have heard even by james only indicates that the instrument can sound as good as what is already currently available but you still have to do all the work to achieve even that. No disrespect but the MS is boxing outside its weight when it enters the arranger ring and it doesnt compete well for sure compared to even middle line arrangers in terms of ease of use and features.

[This message has been edited by spalding1968 (edited 12-31-2010).]

Spalding,

I agree with you, but what demonstrations are you talking about, post me some links if you have seen any good ones, or one!

Hi Tony.
I've posted 3 video's showing how the arranger operates. Surly from that you can get some sort of idea of what it works like as a Arranger and how it sounds with the default bank of sounds that come with the keyboard.

Arranger Introduction http://www.youtube.com/irishacts#p/u/8/UzE4acDql0s

Arranger, optimising a Style. http://www.youtube.com/irishacts#p/u/4/uKlI3NDqrHA

Arranger with external sound module. http://www.youtube.com/irishacts#p/u/3/l2buudc9DOo

Bearing all that in mind and how long it took me to optimise a style. There's nothing stopping me from doing that to a collection of styles in order to make a “Best Of” bank.


So as you can see, it does indeed function as an arranger. The problem is Live Arranger doesn’t offer everything an Arranger user wants, and how it's implemented is not exactly ideal. None of which has anything to do with Lionstracs.

However... it will very soon as under OS 5.0 a new version of Qranger will be released and as this will be the main arranger program going forward, lets stick a pin in all this until then. If it works and offers everything an arranger user could want, then there's nothing stopping it from being just as good a Arranger as it is a Workstation right now.

All you need is the content preloaded, or someone to do the work for you,...or you learn how to do it yourself

Regards
James

Lets jump ahead for a moment and make 2 very big assumptions.

1: If in the future it comes preloaded with Styles optimised for instant use out of the box.

2: If when OS 5.0 is released, Qranger offers full arranger functions.

Then... It could easily become as good an arranger as it already is a workstation and it should appeal to users of all levels.

OS 5.0 is on the way so lets wait and see on that one. As for ready made styles... I have a solution to that, but I have yet to decide if it's worth the effort.

Regards
James.

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 12-31-2010).]

Yes I agree with James here.

If the MS could have offered the "accepted standard" operations of an arranger - slash chord recognition, jazz chord recognition - break fills - then I certainly would have kept mine.

I would have then taken the time to fully learn the Q-ranger system and created my own audio styles. As it happened it did not, so I pursued the options of 3rd party arranger engines. And as I have described a few times in this place, THAT was a total waste of time money and energy!!

If indeed, these core (as I would consider them) functions of arranger are added to ANY future operating system, I would definitely re-purchase the MS, not in the keyboard form, as I am happy with my PA2xPro, but certainly the rack version. IF, Domenico ever gets it finished and fully operational

Indeed, I still have ALL my MS instruments, Giga files and other data safely stored away, JUST in case that day ever happens

As I have stated many MANY times before, the W/S aspects of the MS are brilliant, and I DO miss the rest of this wonderful musical instrument.

I do NOT miss the arranger!!

Dennis

well said. I agree totally with that. The MS may or may not be what someone is looking for, but sure as hell is a work of art because if you are crazy enough and you have enough time ,you can do things that no other keyboard can do. I have not bought one simply because at the moment I wanted an arranger workstation. I just bought a Tyros 2 about a week ago, which I love because it's instantly gratifying, but let me say it, if I had more time and more money, I would have preferred the MS.....this is a perfect cross between a computer and a keyboard workstation, and the best part is, it's not a computer with that Windows crap on it, it's a keyboard where if you have the balls to make it work, can do whatever you want it to do. So yeah, in that case I agree about the lack of skill of people who don't appreciate good products like these.

BTW, I am just waiting to see the new Q-ranger. If ever the MS will be an arranger as fast to work with as a Yamaha, it will blow all the Yamahas out of the water. I just need to compare the ridicolous 'sampler' on the Tyros, which can only read wav files and map out 8 zones, with the possibilities that the MS ,instead , offers. The area in which the Tyros, at the moment, wins, is that it does what I want it to do straight out of the box: the sounds are excellent, for the most part, the arranger works like a dream (i.e. recognizes exactly any chord I play, which for me is very important) and the sequencer is very easy to use, although very basic and in fact, too basic, i.e. there's no piano roll and multi-level undo. I am sure that the MS , in all the areas except 'open the box and play', blows the Tyros out of the water, including probably the future ones.

The way I see it, the MS is a multi-faceted dream workstation with LOADS of potential.

But yes the sounds are a bit dated. Frankly, I was never impressed by Gigapiano. I remember a few sounds for Gigasampler which were terrific , like Peter Ewer's 'Symphonic Organ' or Gigaharp, but Yamaha, I have to say, managed to pull it off in the sounds department with the Tyros 2. I would never buy a new Tyros, though, it's simply too closed-ended for that kind of money. For that money, I would want an MS, a keyboard that you can expand with sounds for years to come.

I really think the MS is a glimpse of the future. All it needs is a batch of killer sounds and an arranger that works as well as Yamaha makes them. Which is no easy task by all means, but I really cheer for Liontracs on this one. As a composer I don't want to rely on computers too much and I want a keyboard workstation that is the perfect transition between an arranger, a computer, and a synth workstation. Then I will even sleep on it.