I need to pull out the charts for the majority of the music that I play. I'd like to change that. Any tips on how to go about memorizing melodies, chords, and lyrics?

Thanks!

You need to start with a brand new brain that has not been used , I have no chance.

I use no charts at all anymore....I weened myself off of them many years ago....the only way is to go song by song and just play them overt and over again without the music....repetition is success to alleviating using the charts as a crutch....it will free you up to enjoy playing, ad libbing & letting creating as you play & sing much more.....it looks so much more professional also.

Try some exercises also like :

1- Blindfold yourself and play the songs let your fingers be your eyes.....

2- have someone "talk to you while your playing" this will teach you to play effortlessly without "thinking" about what your hands are doing.

3- If your a singer also.....memorize the lyrics as well while your playing, smiling, & making eye contact with the audience..nothing worse for an audience then looking at a player on stage with his head down in the book thruout the whole song..

Good luck



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 11-06-2010).]

I agree with you Tony and I allso haw no chance.I am player by ear(cos I can handlet with musical notation and chords),but when I must learn some dificult song then usulay record that song on CD and put CD to my car radio.Then I listen that song 100 of times and try to sing.(that is a good way, cos nobady can hear me).
After that kinde of learning I try to play and sing with my kayboard.Almost allways I am setisfie.(dont know if listeners setisfie to...)

[This message has been edited by Dusan (edited 11-06-2010).]

Dusan.......CONFIDENCE is also a key factor.....never doubt yourself!

Yes Dnj,I forget about that point...you are right.

I have a few thoughts on this...I too relied on the charts..a comfort zone..I started out with a band when I was just out of high school..a 5 piece band that consisted of old guys over 40..and me 17-18..They had charts for all the tunes..I got use to using them..and in fact even in my earlier years I used fake books...I can still recall the standards in the original keys ..I swear I can visualize the printed fake book version after all the years of playing from fake books..

Here is a tip, from my experience...The year was 1990, the month July...I traveled to a regular gig with my young lady vocalist..Carol..Set up ready to start playing and NO Music book...The book with all my arrangements...In this time..I played everything live with several different keyboards...

You know what..it didn't matter..we played the gig just as always..the charts were crutches..and the truth you already know the songs...when you are forced to play without the charts you too will realize you can play without charts..

The second part of this experience..you already know chord progressions,,and you can hear what the music is doing and where it needs to go...The exercise of playing this way will develop your ear to fingers...and I promise you ..you will feel just as comfortable after a short time..and you will enjoy the gigs more..

You will also find out..you don't mind "winging" tunes..and will have a lot of fun...

My days back then were more enjoyable..I had partners ..that were professional "minded"...and were willing and capable to perform tunes off the cuff..

Today, not so much..the singers are the type that want to sound like the record, and "need" sequenced material to perform..

My current band included..

Thankfully there are still some of my girls that can handle both..adlib live and sequenced tunes too...


If you want to learn to play without the charts...Go to your next gig without the books....and say now what?..You may be pleasantly surprised..under pressure..you already can play..

Fran is right. I, too use some "cheat materials" for songs I'm not sure of. thing is, some of the little cards I use are now so yellow I can't read some of the notations.

I need to throw those cards away, and I'm sure I'd be fine. 99% of my material is played on the fly-often with a modulation, just to cut the boredom.

Also, I can't think too much about the lyrics. I will play two jobs tonight without thinking about the lyrics, but, if I sat down right now to write out the lyrics on most of my stuff, I'd run into a problem.

Confidence and repetition work!

(Either that, or wild-assed blind luck!)


Good luck!


Russ

(Lyrics for "For the Good Times"...."Don't Look So Sad, I know you're pregnant...". Or "Among My Souvenirs"..."There's Nothing Left of Me....Since My Hysterectomy"(Best sung by female vocalists)! I Know MILLIONS of them LOL!

I share your frustration Montunoman. I've been trying to get this memorization thing down using suggestions from Donny and others for a few years. I remember Fran's story from a few years ago he related attempt to give me some assistance memorizing tunes. . Maybe my efforts have been half hearted, ARRGGH I still need the charts. I'll be the first to admit I get disgusted when it doesn't come together as quickly as I would like. But at 58 working a full time job, gigging part-time, family responsibilities I run out of steam at 9 or 10 PM when trying to memorize. Amazing thing is that when I studied piano late teen early 20s, there's some tunes I memorized from repetition and can play them piano solo style with my eyes closed, no charts, no sheet music.

I have been reading this book on piano studies that contains some helpful hints on memorization you can download it for free. So I haven't given up just get frustrated with it.

Downloadable Piano Practice Book

You may also want to do a Google search for musicians memorization tricks.

Tips on How to Memorize Music by Robert Kelly

For me there's memorizing lyrics is not too difficult, I do that part during some of my daily commute to the day job.

Good luck!



[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 11-06-2010).]

Memorization is not so much developing your "memory" but more like using "mind tricks."

First, and foremost, learn your "cycle of fifths" and you'll learn more than half of your songs overnight.

Practice simple songs in different keys until you get used to hearing the "chord changes" in your head. Example: Five, Foot, Two...All of Me...You're Nobody, etc. They move in "fifths" and in both songs the first measure root chord moves to the third (E7). This happens in many songs before the cycle of fifths kicks in. Also, the interval C to A7...a very important jump. It doesn't take long to recognize that change in many songs. Example: Ja-da, So What's New, etc. All accordionists are a step ahead on this as the left hand buttons move in fifths.

I have success with the following. Take a "stack" of songs you want to learn and put them in groups of 5. Go over one group until you've memorized the songs maybe 50-75%. Put that group to the side and start on the next group and do the same thing. When you've finished ALL the groups, start again with the first group, and learn each one maybe 75-85% (it will be easier this time around). Keep going through the cycles until "it comes easy" with each song.

It will, as that's the way the mind works. NOT by memorizing in one sitting but by steps with breaks in between. I've memorized hundreds of songs with these techniques, plus other "tricks" I've had to discover.

Lucky

Ditto to what Lucky said.
Throughout the years, I've been successful using these exact same memorization techniques.

As an added comment: I find that when I'm memorizing something (lyrics, chord progression, etc), that if I work on this close to retiring for the night, that when I wake up, I have it far better memorized than by constant repetition. As Lucky said, there is something about the breaks between practicing which gives your conscious mind a rest, while allowing your subconscious time to process and cement the information in your memory. Ther've been many instances where I've unsuccessfully attempted to memorize a song late at night, but the next day, surprised to find I'm able to play the song perfectly without fail.

In addition, I do know that as you memorize more & more songs, that the memorization process time becomes a lot quicker. - Scott

[This message has been edited by Scottyee (edited 11-06-2010).]

And then there are those (like me) who cannot retain that information in full for various reasons(some medical), so I use charts, cheat cards, etc,....I have NO trouble interacting with the audience, as I do maintain a high degree of eye contact, even with the charts.

It can be done! I believe as always, that there is no wrong and right way, only "your way"...We each do whatever works for us.

Just because a player uses a chart makes them no less a muso, or entertainer.

Just my 2 cents

Dennis

I use charts for some songs, especially lyrics, but I keep my MPP out of sight, to the side. I learned that is much easier to learn to glance ahead at an entire phrase and force yourself to immediately reconnect with the audience.

Sure, it is better to memorize the whole thing, but this is better than keeping glued to the chart.

It's simply about repetition. Baptism by fire is the norm for me, as I attempt to do newer songs live that I've just not totally memorized. Sooner than later, you will remember them in order to stave off embarrassment.

I do use the PA800 screen for my lyrics 'cheat sheet', but always have the arrangement memorized completely.

The more jobs you play, like anything else, the more you will remember the songs by heart. It's really not that difficult.

I played a private party at a Doc's house last night and their 7 year old was playing classical on her piano by MEMORY

Repetition, Repetition, Repetition..

As soon as you think you know the song.


Repetition, Repetition, Repetition...

I suppose, given time, rote repetition playing the same notes repeatedly will yield results, I believe a far more effective & everlasting approach is to hear & understand what's going on musically while you're memorizing a tune.

This requires understanding the basic 'fundamentals of music, of which includes the ability to recognize (by ear) and play at will (on your keyboard), the basic chord progressions (I-V7-1; IV-V7-1; IIm-V7-I; I-VIm-IIm-V7-1; etc). Another important music skill to develop is note interval recognition & playing/singing them at will too. This includes the ability to instantly recognize/play all possible melodic 'note intervals' (both ascending, descending) and being able to recognize (by ear) & play basic chord types (minor, major, aug, dim, 7ths, 9ths, b9's, etc). Once you've developed these skills, you'll be able to not only memorize songs quickly, but play songs 'on the spot' by ear too.

Lyrics Memorization: Here's a link to a previous discussion thread on that.

Scott

I must have a split personality. The music end of things I have no problem with. It's almost to the point of not having to remember anything - it's just there. Words, on the other hand, are a constant pain. By rights, I should just do instrumentals. That would solve everything. Sad, I know, but I have songs that I've done for over 30 years and still have the words in front of me. The thing is, I barely look at them, so it must be some kind of comfort blanket. Weird, eh?

I don't think it's wierd, unless we both are. I am the same with notes. I can hear every note of thousands of songs, in my head. Lyrics are a different matter. My wife knows tunes and words, and says that I have not listened to the story being told while I was listening all these years. She has a point.

Thanks guys for the fantastic ideas- keep them coming.

I heard an interview with Paul McCarty, and he said when he's getting ready to tour and perform his old songs, he needs to get out his written lyrics and relearn the instrument parts. He made it sound like it wasn't easy for him. And he wrote those tunes!

I also have heard that Sinatra used a telepromter in his latter years. Some one told me that Mick Jagger uses one too.

One the other hand, last year I saw Tonny Bennett perform a two hour set and he nor his band used any charts at all. Amazing!

[This message has been edited by montunoman (edited 11-07-2010).]

Yes, BUT they would only have done about 25 songs, maybe, in that two hour set, all totally rehearsed and rehearsed for about 3 months prior to that set of shows....

Dennis

Whether someone uses charts or not makes no difference to the music...listen to a concert pianist who uses the music, it is still just as passionate as that played by another without the music.

What I think is detrimental and "clogs" emotion and interaction are those who play and TOTALLY focus on either the keys or strings of the instrument, even when they do not use charts.

I play with barely a glance at the keyboard, most of the time I am looking at the audience, with quick "refreshing" looks at a chart, more for pointers to the next set of 8 or so bars...

Dennis

[This message has been edited by miden (edited 11-07-2010).]

"Yes, BUT they would only have done about 25 songs, maybe, in that two hour set, all totally rehearsed and rehearsed for about 3 months prior to that set of shows...."


Dennis

____________________________________________

Yes, that did occur to me too. I'm not sure if Tony Bennett changes up his set list from nigh to night or not.

I just thought it's interesting to note that he is well into 80's, still sings great and remembers all the lyrics.

[This message has been edited by montunoman (edited 11-07-2010).]

Think of it this way:.......

If I asked you to sing "Happy Birthday" for me right now you would have NO Problem
doing that at all correct?....

Ok,.....Why?.....because, you have sung it so many times in your life that you know it by heart!! Same goes for learning songs/lyrics by memory....

Also you must try to learn to be able to play a song and know the chords just by listening to it on the radio....... this is a skill that is a must in my book as if you were jammin with your friends off the cuff.....to be able to sit down after you hear it and pretty much figure it out after listening a few times without charts of any kind. Then add the pressure of being in front of a paying audience and you'll be surprised how this will force you to play without the charts better & better each time. Another gratification of playing by memory is that you will have so much more FREEDOM to branch out, ad lib, and play songs "YOUR WAY" making the arrangement YOURS!!



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 11-07-2010).]

Actually Donny this one I totally disagree with.
Maybe thats the only way you can ad-lib and play a song differently and "make it your own", another wanky expression, (not saying YOU are wanky Donny, just the term), but a chart reader can do the exact same thing, perhaps even better

Dennis

The most successful thing, to me, at least, is to look at the lyrics as a story. Understand the story, and then the recall process makes sense, will be prompted by the changes and moves the performance into an area of interpretation, rather than just rote memory.

Works for me!


R.

I guess I am lucky, I have everything in my memory, songs, chord progressions, arrangement, where my registrations for that song, etc. I think it may be a side effect of playing by ear, at least to me.

A twist to that, in the older days, late 70s, most instruments (Organs) did not have transpose functions, so, in top of accompanying a singer I never hear (The early days of Ixtapa, only 2 hotels), every week we had entertainers/shows coming to the hotel, well, many times the flights did not bring the band instruments, so, you can guess who had to fill in, yes, my Hammond X66 and me, had to do, with songs that I did not hear before ever or if I knew them, in some funky key...but that gives you experience, it made me sweat like crazy, and thankfully "winged".




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mdorantes

Interesting comments...

I've done almost six thousand gigs over the last 15 years...not bragging as there's guys around here who have done more, I'm sure...

I've used a music pad pro for 100% of my gigs, for about 4-5 years. Before that I used traditional sheet music...

No one has ever...not once...even commented on me using music while performing. Other musicians have commented on how they'd like to get on of the MPP's but never anything negative...

I've also consistently received feedback from clients throughout the years that my performances are among the most "personal" they've ever seen.

So...

I say if it helps you worry about one less thing AND you're not compromising your audience interaction, then use them...

Not using any sheet music doesn't necessarily mean you're connecting with your audience just as using the aids doesn't mean you're not.


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Bill in Dayton

[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 11-09-2010).]

Manuel my buddy! Really enjoyed reading about your Ixtapa resort days. Challenging yet rewarding, and fun times too. I can relate.

Mdorantes, your experience takes me back to my high school days. I was hired at a club where the owner would host acts like BJ Thomas, The McCoys, Jerry Lee Lewis and the like. He'd put them up on Wednesday nights, which was 1/2 way from their Saturday night Chicago gig and the one the following Friday in Atlanta. Most were small groups, traveling in a box truck for the equipment and a Cadillac or van for the players.

The visiting group would show up late in the afternoon, about the time I got out of school. By that time, the house band, Little Enis and the Table Toppers was mostly drunk. So were members of the visiting act.

It was up to me to piece something together from the house band and the visitors to play two sets. We usually had the feature vocalist and anyone else who could find the bandstand.

Often, the players didn't remember the key a song was recorded in. My advantage was, I knew who the group was, so I could figure out what the material was likely to be.

Then, it was "shoot from the hip" all the way. I called the changes. Sometimes, I was on B-3, kicking bass. Sometimes on bass and sometimes on guitar, trying to play materials, call changes and cover solos.


Best training and "shoot from the hip" good times I've ever had.

The good news is, it's easy to please drunks!


R.

When playing kds, just from my memory (any key signature)
When playing acoustic guitars and singing, I always need my books with lyrics.

I think being able to play without music is a gift. My wife is a classically trained pianist and organist. She sight reads like crazy and can play just about anything you put in front of her. If she doesn’t have music she couldn’t play twinkle twinkle little star. She has been a church organist for 40 years and still can’t play hymns without music even though she has played them a thousand times.

I, on the other hand, am only a fair sight reader. If I play a tune 4 or 5 times I can throw away the music. I will usually play it 5 or 6 times more to fine tune my arrangement. After that I rarely use the music anymore. The first professional job I played was a cocktail party in between a wedding and the reception. I got there, set up the organ and Leslie and discovered that I had no music. I played the next two hours from memory. I don’t try to memorize the music it just happens. Also when I’m kicking bass I have discovered that if my foot plays the right notes my hands will too.

It’s a gift.

Tom

Tom, I think it is a gift but I think (hope) it can be developed too.

For me it takes daily practice. Repeat the same tunes everyday. After awile, there are some tunes that I never forget and other seem to fade away.

Last summer I had two months off from my day job and I worked up about 40 tunes. It took me about an hour to get through all those tunes. However, now that I'm back working and I got out of the routine and I'm starting to forget some of the songs.

It's wierd how the brain works. The other night I was trying to play through a Bach Two Part Invention that I had memorized. I kept forgeting some of the parts. Rather than look at the score, I just took a break. The next day I played through the piece fine just fine.

I think that....wait a minute....Damn, I can't remember what we were talking about (LOL)!


Russ (the aging one) Lay