Dennis ..the exception is vocoder mode..try it on your G70..what notes (intervals)played, are the same the vocal harmony will produce..including octaves..

Yes very true Fran...

I have never used vocoder mode on anything, even with the Korgs (although theirs is not very well implemented). I don't find any particular use for it.

Dennis

Well I guess I left out the word RH vocoder...

Well the original topic was Harmonisers 101, NOT vocoders, they are two different things.
and if asked I would suggest UD used the harmoniser and NOT the vocoder

Dennis

Sorry that should have been UD was talking ABOUT the harmoniser not used.

Of course not knowing the guy, he may very well have been talking about a vocoder, but then I think he perhaps would have named the topic Harmonisers and Vocoders

As you would know, all the vocoder does is simply play the exact notes you play, where you play them. With the disadvantage (or advantage for some??) that it also plays the notes via the sound engine too, unless turned off or down. Not to mention any slight glitch notes, they get added in too.

With some of the newer harmonisers they do not add these notes as they are not recognised as part of of the correct scale for the key. But a vocoder plays EVERYTHING, bum notes and all!! Unless in mono mode, which sorta defeats the idea really!!

They have been around for years. A lot longer than harmony units.

Dennis

Never used a vocoder, and although I DO trigger from the right hand mostly, I do sometimes use LH triggers if I am using an accp pattern. I'll address this more later, but I'm on my way out the door. The biggest advantage of RH triggers to me is in the passing tones and complex chords I can use to really enhance the harmonies. My left hand has always been a bass player for me, and I do not have the dexterity to play really beautiful chords with that hand, so if I'm in arr mode - the chords are kind of simple - that's why I play so many chords on top of the arrangement with the RH.

When I use a harmony patch, the notes are not governed by my hand by the passing tones and subtle chord changes are. I try to think like a vocal ensemble, and phrase accordingly. I'll punch in and out during a phrase, scoop to a new pitch .... lots of smooth, lush effects make the arrangement really stand out, in stead of getting in the way.
My trademark sound is really as a vocal group, not a singer with backups.
TTYL .... gotta get my car inspected!

Dennis, the "vocoder" mode on the G70 is more flexible than what was on Korg etc..You select "my voice" and it harmonises as the other modes do....doesn't matter if you use right hand or left hand or right foot ,, ..The last line was for Donny and Dave...

To be honest, the vocoder mode is the only one that I have any inclination to use. Unless you are doing Andrews Sisters or Mills Bros (and even they don't rigidly block), suspensions, close block chords that clash and resolve against the chord played, passing notes, counter-harmony, those are the things that make great harmony. The slavish blocking around a chord, without those passing notes and resolutions is the hallmark of the artificial harmony generator.

And, I'm afraid, no matter HOW good the actual vocal transposition, immediately SCREAMS 'Machine!'

Nah, disagree totally. ON the G70 and the Korg there are plenty of ways to get s ingel note harmony or double..If you read my post you would see that is pretty much all I used.

And if the vocoder does as you say, it is MORE likely to produce those multi-voice harmonies, that SCREAM machine!! That you seem to despise, going by your post. Gping on what Fran has posted the vocoder is not monophonic.

At least when you restrict the harmoniser to one or two notes that is ALL you get.

And I would REALLY like to know, (as you so often say you play mostly in piano mode), if you use Vocoder, how do you stop all your left hand notes getting in the way too?

In harmoniser mode this is NOT an issue because it is reading from a chord structure. Be it maj, min, 6th, min6th, ninth, maj6th maj7th , whatever.

I repeat I find one or two harmony voices PLENTY. Any more DOES scream machine...

I mean we are a solo or duo(with the other guy not singing) I mean how "real" do you think folks think our harmonies are anyway???!!!

Dennis

Fran I took your advice and played around with this.

WOW!! Where has this Roland vocoder been in my arr playing gigs...Man it is one seriously cool bit of work..Way better than anything on the Korg.

Thank you very much for the heads up on it..

To be honest if you had not said anything, I would never had tried it, oh I knew it was there sure enough, but my past experiences with vocoders caused me to ignore it..

Now I fully understand why the upper/lower or full keyboard is so important in vocoder mode. And it is really a lot easier to get good harmonies than the harmony mode.

I can also see how Diki can fit it in with piano mode as well. I also use mostly (95%) of styles in full keyboard, piano mode.

Guess who will be using it from now on

Cheers
Dennis