The New Yamaha Motif XF have also landed

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www.AudioworksCT.com

So, how does it play? Whats your opinion about it? Personally i really love the Motif line and the only thing i miss in it is an arranger and maybe some of the SA and SA2 voices of T4.

Neither of which will be in the XF.

Had ti unwind a sale of my XS8 until November as the XF is backordered until November.....With 8 independantly and very highly editiable elements per voice you can create your own "SA" voices.


[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 10-06-2010).]

I dont think you can create SA voices only cuz
it has 8 Elements, SA is not only about the
Elements and has nothing to do really with Layers,
SA is other functions, same as on Korg, RX and DNC
its 2 completely different things same as MV and SA.

Kingfrog,

I got my XF in, why are they telling you that they are back-ordered?

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www.AudioworksCT.com

I made an inquiry about buying one direct on the employee purchase program and was told as of yesterday by Kollin they were backordered until November. You apparently ordered yours earlier. The same wasn't true of the Tyros 4. I can get one of those now but want to sell my T3 first.



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 10-06-2010).]

I gotcha, sorry for the delay.

It's pretty amazing

IS the XF that good? I was going to pass on it and keep the XS but I was offered enough to make it worthwhile to buy the XF (the prices did not soar like the Tyros.) So I emailed Kollin and got the bad news.....So I am seriously wondering if the XF is that much better now. Did not appear so on paper alredy having a Tyros 3 and going on a T4...... Motifactor has some good information BTW the XF6 is also backordered LOL....



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 10-06-2010).]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSDOORN79r0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utbO6Dw1dlM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpnfn9kxswg&feature=related

Yeah nice....But I would not pay much up to it. Not as much as I would pay up to the T4 from the T3. Mostly becasue my library of voices are more than covered with both the XS and Tyros and SW synths. Plus I do use the FW port which is standard on the XS8 and not so on the XF which increases the cost. I would not use the flash Ram (again I have plenty of voices inclusing VSTis). I had been offered enough on my XS to make it a straight across deal. But may not be as lucky in a month....as for the Tyros I will have to pay up to it as the I will sell the T3 for less than I can get the T4 for.

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 10-06-2010).]

why not just use the t4 styles on your T3?

Arrrgghhh!! this is killing me!

I have had my Motif XF6 on pre order for about 3 weeks already and they still aren't due to arrive in Australia until 12th October. it will still take a couple of days after before i can get mine delivered!

as far as the XF goes with SA and SA2 voices - most of them are included in the XF. they are just not triggered the same way as the Tyros does. I have had numerous conversations on the Motifator forum with the Yamaha moderators there about this and they say that the reason they are not as "automatic" on the Motif Line is because Yamaha re giving us the power to change and control them as we wish.

On the Tyros if you play the SA electric or acoustic guitars you hear fret slides every 2 seconds and although its a "cool" thing, its far from realistic.

the one thing that does bother me is when you play and SA voice on the tyros the voice can behave differently whether you play in legato mode or not. this feature is not in the Motif Line. you can switch the voice to Legato mode but it will remain that way only until you switch it off...

each SA voice whether its a Tyros or a Motif is made up of about 8 elements (WAV Samples) that are all triggered off at different velocities and keyboard actions. on the Tyros line they are completely un editable whereas on the on the Motif (just like every voice) you can edit each individual element that make up the voice. you can change the velocity range for when they are triggered, you can change the actual sample entirely.

I hope this helps clear some confusion.

Nick

I would love to hear anyone play a polka, rumba, slow foxtrot, cha cha, meringue, etc, etc, on one of these XF units .....
all I see is meaningless funk stabs and weird alien music ??? can you really make some decent music ....country waltz, two step, ballads... or what ?

you can make anything u want Donny. it has all the sounds and sequencing tools to achieve full music production without the need for computer software or other bits of hardware.

Out of the box the Motif has arpeggios tailored to the Latin category and its not hard to make your own if you want other genres.

The performance mode can come quite close to arranger playing. (there are dedicated arps for fill-ins and endings out of the box).

I have a PSR S910 and I use it primarily for jamming to the styles which is all well and good.

But if you want to write your own music and have more authentic and complex sounding music a Synth offers far more capabilities.

Nick what i was trying to get at is that yamaha or any of the synth makers...never show off the units like the XF with anything other then funky clav stuff....I know these units can create anything but they need to show that aspect off to the public for 'ALL" GENRES of Music....are they afraid "REAL PROS" wont buy if they show off a Waltz, or whatever anything but funky clav stuff..?.....and how about some instructional DVDs so people can "LEARN" by seeing and hearing how to operate these units.....?

(all I see is meaningless funk stabs and weird alien music ??? can you really make some decent music ....country waltz, two step, ballads... or what ?)

define weird alien music and meaningless funk stabs?

so it looks like unless its not Country, Two Step, Polka or ballads its not DECENT music??

u spend alot of time watching youtube videos, surely by now you have seen some of the good Motif XS and XF demos? do i need to list them for you?

Donny for anyone who has never used an arranger or a synth they are equally as hard to learn for the first time. I think why people get more put off by a synth is because there is alot of actual "music writing" and "music production" involved before you can press a Play button and a complete accompaniment starts playing.

Whenever i watch a live band play or see any type of live situation whether its a one man band or more, the most common keyboard instruments used are synths. I am not saying one is better than the other (I own both) but that does sort of send some type of message out there that maybe these devices (Synths) can be used in any situation not just electronic music.

I myself have changed over so many arrangers in the past (over 10) but the synths don't have as much of a change over rate. Most people like the way a particular arranger sounds out of the box by listening to its styles (i am one of these people) and instantly the ideas start to flow.

I think what makes people change arrangers so much is because they get bored of listening to the same backing styles over and over again.
YES you can make your own and editing existing ones - but the sad truth is most arranger players probably cant be bothered or simply don't have the ability and patience to make their own styles and successfully achieve like the ones already out of the box.

With a synth - you are almost forced to make your own music for anything you want.
the Motif XS and XF has the performance mode which puts it far ahead of most other synths giving you a "sketch tool" to experiment with existing loops in an arranger style fashion. YES you can use the keyboard in this mode only and achieve good results but like the arranger, you need to start getting creative otherwise you will get bored of hearing the same old loops over and over.

With the synth you can record your performance playing and take it directly into a pattern in the PATTERN Mode or add it into a section of a song in the SONG mode.

The best way to learn how a synth works is join the motifator forum and ask as many questions as possible (how do i do this, how do you do that, with the keyboard sitting in front of you).

There is only so much you can learn from watching videos.



[This message has been edited by Nick G (edited 10-06-2010).]

I hear you Nick...I have used synth/WS units before arrangers for 20+ years..
the KORG M1 was one of my favorites years ago...I understand how they work and in a live "Band" situation it's the perfect keyboard with a generous amount of good sounds & layers, splits, etc..it is also good to create your own backing tracks to play and sing over, BUT, you become a slave to the sequence arrangement..... as a solo OMB I prefer the Arranger...as you wouldn't need styles .....the motificator forum and any outlet that people can talk, share opinions in a "CIVIL" "FRIENDLY" "HELPFUL" manner will only help the learning process, but you do need a certain level of playing skill also. Using DVD's can only help because you See & Hear the instructor and can reviw & rewind as suited for you.



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-07-2010).]

To Nick G:
Your last several posts were excellent. It's so refreshing to see good informantion presented in such an intelligent, informative, and non-confrontational way. This should be helpful to novices trying to choose between a synth/ws and an arranger kb. I like this approach to posting; explaining rather than confronting. Also, I think "decent music" is in the ear of the beholder. What comes out of a synth depends largely on what's put into it. GIGO still applies.

chas

Let me try to explain what Donny is asking in terms of relating to the current synth/workstations (not that he needs me to explain for him).

Take the Korg M3 for example, this workstation has soft pads on it and it has a Karma algorithm in it that will actually play backing tracks. There are many sequences for many different styles of music. When you press one of the Pads and / or chords on the keys, the bass will follow you. It is not an arranger, but you can get some really good song results this way.

I have this feature on my Roland G6 workstation. There are built in arpeggiators that sound just like backing tracks on an arranger. However, there are NO intro or endings; unless you sequence them yourself. Actually, you can do fills and breaks by using multiple Arps and trigger then just like you do on a break.

The main difference between a workstation and an arranger is you have to work a lot harder on a workstation to get the same backing track song results. This is the bread and butter for an arranger, so it's much more natural and transparent.

The way WS address arps and loops is like stepping back 15 or more years in arranger technology. They ALL need to be cued up one bar in advance of when you want them, whereas arrangers have had the ability to switch in fills and breaks instantly (allowing you, by varying when you call them, to get more variety from them) for donkey's years.

Cuing up stuff in advance is an utterly different playing paradigm than simply being spontaneous. Once you have experienced the latter, it is SO hard to go back to the former....

And, sad to say, but once again the specter of unprotected data rears its' ugly head with the arranger/WS split in musical emphasis. I would hazard that it isn't THAT difficult to convert the MIDI data from a style's output into an arp that could be played on a WS. But it isn't automatic, and would require gobs of work to do to as many styles as one would normally want to be able to gig on one SORT of like an arranger. But Yamaha, Korg, etc. are VERY unlikely to do this work for you (and who of us has the time or skills to do it for ourselves) as impossible as it would be for them to make even a break-even point for the work, let alone a decent profit...

We are stuck, possibly because of our own actions, with the fact that the musical emphasis difference between WS's and arrangers is unlikely to change, ever... You want oldies, you want ballroom, you want almost anything but modern music patterns, you are going to HAVE to stick to arrangers, or be prepared to work for MONTHS (or longer!) to import these legacy musics to a WS. And you are STILL going to have to completely change the way you play, to allow for advance cuing of everything as well.

Best of luck!