I don't understand Yamaha's logic nor their reasoning as to why they continue to put mediocre Drum Kits in their totl arrangers. You're paying through the nose for a 61 key flagship product (more costly than their comparable workstation line) and then they put in mediocre Drum Kits and spoil it all. I've really come to believe that Yamaha puts a distinction between their arranger customers from their workstation customers. Their workstation customers are obviously considered professionals because their workstation line offers both 76 & 88 key versions. Whilst their arranger customers are deemed elderly home hobbyists with significant hearing loss and too weak to lift anything over 27 lbs apparently. That's the only reason I can think of anyway. Even though Yamaha realizes that many arranger keyboardists play in a professional setting i.e. they gig with their Tyros/2/3/4. Doesn't seem to faze Yamaha though does it. The Drum Kits on both their mid and totl arrangers are their Achilles heel in my opinion. Quality Drum Kits are essential and instrumental in achieving that 'Live Band' sound yet Yamaha continues to fall short in that critical area again, needless to say. Some people might be okay with the T4 drums but when you really understand the difference between outstanding drum kits vs. mediocre drum kits it's hard to fathom why some people would slough it off and settle for "mediocre" over quality and resigning oneself to: "Oh, it's just typical Yamaha so I'll just go ahead and fork over $5,000 and have to put up with it I guess." To each his own I guess.

I would have most likely gotten a Tyros4 if it had 76 keys and better Drum Kits, even at its astronomical price point. On the other hand, if people are indeed pleased with Yamaha's latest effort then who am I to dissuade them from purchasing it? If you like it, more power to you! I'm sure Yammie will sell a boat load of them even with its apparent shortcoming(s). Maybe the Tyros 5 will finally have more than 61 keys and a gaggle of professional sounding drum kits who knows? Nah! I'm kidding myself right? Either way though, we'll have to wait three more years to find out.

Shucks, maybe the Tyros 9 could finally be the ticket? Nah, too soon most likely. Perhaps the Tyros 17 will finally strike pay dirt? And we'll all be 90 years old or older too unfortunately. There are other choices out there thank God. Hopefully Ketron, Korg and Roland will continue with 76 key versions and keep putting professional sounding Drum Kits and other high-end features in their totl arrangers like they're currently doing. Necessity is the mother of invention and I'm sure glad two of the Big Three and Ketron recognize that fact.

All the best,
Mike

Yamaha knows excactly what they are doing dont be fooled.... they will sell Thousands of Tyros 4 units worldwide...
with those "so Called" disappointing drums.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 10-04-2010).]

"What interests me is not how the drum sits in a mix (that can be adjusted) but the quality of the sample."

I agree. Especailly after making some of the adjustments that were sugested to get a more live sound, I'm much happier with my T2.

I get confussed sometimes, when people say that don't like a certain brands drums, are they taking about the sound, balance or what? For example someone told me that they didn't like the Yamaha country drums kits.

To me the sound of Yamaha drums sound nice, but the patterns/grooves/styles don't sound like a live band. The Audya drum patterns sound much more like the real thing.

I do like Beakybirds idea of just comparing a few audio samples of different drum patters.

I think the drums in T4 have come a long way compared to previous Tyros instruments..

Yamaha uses a lot of ambient sampling for the new drums and other sounds.. With ambient sampling you place the microphone further away from an instrument that allows it to also record some of the reflections from the instrument... previously Yamaha sampled from almost inside an instrument..

Many of the excisting drumkids have been upgraded and the new ones just sound great according to me and some friends of me that joined me on my visit to a T4 demo last saturday.. Anyway, you can't use youtube to get an excact opinion about a keyboards sound.

So where did you guys hear a T4 live?

Play a Yamaha BeBop Style ...."VARIATION 4"

listen to the drums...

PS...."Hi EQ" all your drum kits from
64 default to 105 & listen to those drum kits sizzle

Having played (and owned) nearly all the current models (T4 excluded), from my perspective, the drums on the Roland's and Audya seem to be about 20 to 30 percent louder than Yamaha, and a bit more harsh. And that's right out of the box.

Now, with only some minor tuning, if you wish, you can make the Yamaha drums just as loud as Roland's, but it takes a bit more work to make them harsh sounding.

Keep in mind that in all likelihood, the vast majority of keyboard owners DO NOT know how to tune their arrangers. I've communicated with players who have owned their boards for 5 years and never knew there was a mixing console, or a global EQ that could be tuned and saved as default. I've posted detailed instructions on how to create registrations and received PM thanks from hundreds of individuals that were completely unaware how to save specific song settings using the keyboard's onboard tuning features, all in a single registration.

All of this takes time to learn, and in this world of instant gratification a lot of folks are not willing to crack open the instruction manual and figure these things out.

For those of you who wish to hear all the keyboard's drum kits, I strongly suggest hearing them live--not a recorded sample over an Internet site. Spend the time and money and travel to Gorge Key's or Frank's stores, or if they're too far away, how about just visiting the nearest GC. Listen to the drums through the same sound system, and do it before and after tuning--there is a difference.

All of this, of course, is very subjective. Some players, and their audiences, enjoy the sounds of more subdued drums, while others may like them loud and harsh sounding. It's all a matter of personal preference, and as in many instances, there is no right or wrong, good or bad. Yamaha does it their way, Korg does it another way, Roland has their way, Audya has their way--all of which can be considered individualistic attributes of each particular manufacturer. If you like what you hear--buy it. If you don't like what you hear--don't buy it. It's that easy!

For me, personally, I try to keep an open mind about these things, therefore brand names play very little role in making a decision of which keyboard to use, or buy. I have a four-day open slot this month, during which time I'll either go sailing, or if the weather's nasty, drive to New England and look at a T4. To be perfectly candid, I'd rather go sailing.

Cheers,

Gary

The edit was for a spelling correction.

[This message has been edited by travlin'easy (edited 10-05-2010).]

Excellent post, Gary, and my sentiments exactly.

Ian

But Gary...you still spelled George's last name wrong..

A side by side comparison through the same sound system...answers any questions...

I wonder if the fella that bought my 3 day old Tyros3 is enjoying the keyboard..

Side by side only reveals that each company does things their own way, and the client/customer is free to choose what sounds best to them and what most effectively suits their needs.

I'll bet that the guy who bought your Tyros3 thinks you're bonkers for selling it.

However, I think you were wise to do so, since it clearly didn't appeal to you...Roland is what makes you happy, and you've made the right decision.

Ian