hi
Further to my earlier post, I have been investigating the above.

I don't need 76 keys for this boar, but neither do I need (or want) speakers. The main points for me are ease of use and great sounds. I play standing up, have to sing, drive the desk and lights, read the audience and pick the songs (no set list)and depending who I'm playing with be able to transpose a SMF on the fly. From what I see, there is not much difference between the two, especially with v3 on the G70. The one thing that appeals to me about the E80 is the fact that I can use two SRX boards instead of one. Depending on the quality of the onboard sounds, i would pick two from three - the three being Ultimate keys, symphonic strings, brass ensemble. (I have Sax and guitar covered by other musicians, and I am looking for 'realistic' live band sound.

Can anyone shed any more light on the differences between the two - note, I can pick up a used G70 both more easily and far more cheaply.

Thanks

Nick

For me, it's simple. I can't play full (or at least, close to full!) piano parts on a 61. I can on a 76. If you are playing with a full live band (or ever need to), that pretty much dictates the 76.

Yes, the extra SRX slot is great on the E80, and the extra MFX insert effect for the Style or Song Parts (but you can do the same and better on the G70 with a workaround), and separate Mastering EQ and comp for Style and Keyboard Parts is handy too...

But none of them beat the extra SPACE to layout the sounds you want on a 76, IMO. 61 just forces your hand when deciding splits a lot more than a 76.

If Roland had ever turned the E80 into the G80 by adding the 76, it would be a no brainer for me, but sadly, what you get EXTRA in the E80 doesn't make up for what you lose. 15 more notes makes all the difference for me.

But if you NEVER play full piano, or Rhodes, don't split up the keyboard into three zones much or ever feel cramped on a 61, I'd go with the E80...

BTW, don't forget, if what you play requires separate outputs for different Parts (say you want to split the bass off to a bass amp or organs to a Leslie), or you want to use the VH and want a separate output for that, only the G70 has independent outputs. Four for the arranger, and a separate stereo output for the VH.

Nick I have owned and worked with both models..

My choice of the two is the G70...

I did not need speakers, and it added another 3-4 pounds over the G70..

76 keys are a big plus to me..don't forget you can zone 3 sounds across the board..extra key range helps..And the key feel on the G70 is better..

The G70 has separate outs..the E80 does not..If you ever wanted to route parts to an external out put...I use this (separate out) as a way of muting G70 parts when I use the g70 as a midi controller (external sound source)..

The D-Beam is dead center on top of the E-80..a bad placement if you have a laptop or module on a second tier..The G70 has the D-Beam to the left side of the keyboard..

The E-80 has an awkward size..and finding a case is harder to find than the G70 case..

The sounds are great on both..and even a single expansion board works well..I use the "studio" board and it adds the basses, brass etc sounds I like..

The E-80 has slightly different drum kits than the G70..but both are great...and completely editable..

The E-80 allows 3 insert effects to be used at the same time (different parts use a single insert effect)...where the G70 uses a single insert effect....A trick though with the separate outs ..a part can be routed back into the aux in and use the effects from there..

Also the E-80 has a MP3 player on version2..but it is a bit complicated and slow to use...not bad , but nothing like the player on the Roland Prelude..


As I said ..for me the G70 is the over all winner of the two...but you can't go wrong with either of them..

Sorry Diki, I didn't see your post...and repeated a lot of what you said....I guess you can say I confirmed what you said..

Hi

thanks for the replies, that's really useful. To give you a bit more information, I used to be the keys player in a full band. Economics have forced me in the last ten years to dispense with that luxury, and now I'm a kind of one-man-band with guest musicians. I pretty much drive the whole show. I love 76 (or more) keys, but if I returned to full band, I have fantomx 8 and quadrasynth to use. I am specifcally looking for a replacement for my discover5. I don't really need to worry about styles or arranger play - if I play 'interactive' at home, I use my Korg Karma. (I love that board). So what I am after is a 61note board(sorry) as I have too much to do on stage to worry about much more than the odd b3 or rhodes solo - even more so given that I have to (but don't particularly like) having to play standing up. I also have enough to worry about just routing my ae5400 into the harmoniser on my discover5, given the limitations of my Mackie mixer - I do have another far more well specced mixer, but it doesn't have onboard effects, so thats more setup and breakdown time, patch leads etc. - Hell, I have a TC Helicon voice one, but for simplicty, I go with the VH on the discover5 (which I actually think is pretty good (try the smf for I need you by America with the VH programmed in).

At this stage in my life, I want the (seemingly) impossible. The best possible sound, with the minimum amount of effort. If that makes me sound lazy, I would auger that I am putting 5 kids thru uni (college I guess ) and am working a 70hr week and gigging at the weekend. Blimey, that turned into a rant unintentionally

I have been through the stage of 5k+ rigs with full lighting, and incredibly complex rigs. These days I prefer simplicity. On another note, I recently bought a pair of KAM powerbars - what a revelation!

er...

that last post went slightly out of [url=synchttp://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/icons/icon9.gif][url=synchttp://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/icons/icon9.gif][url=synchttp://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/icons/icon9.gif]synchttp://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/icons/icon9.gif[/url][/url][/url]

As did that one..

Thankyou, colonel Smirnoff. (different timezone here)

While you may still have a Fantom for live band... trust me. The G70 is BY FAR the easiest to use, most flexible, most comprehensive live band keyboard I have ever used! I still have a Triton and a K2500, have used Motif's and Fantom's, and wouldn't DREAM of going out on a live gig with them, especially a pickup gig in which I didn't have time to create Performances for each and every song in advance...

It has many of the best samples from the FantomX, including it's best piano, it has a slightly stripped down VK-7 organ section, the drums are taken from the drummer-approved V-Drums, and its' live operation could NOT be easier. I can create splits and layers, assign effects, correct volumes, assign hold pedals and other controllers, completely on the fly, while I'm still playing! I've never seen a WS that even comes CLOSE.

It is why I continue to use it, even though it isn't necessarily the best 'pure' arranger, it is still MORE than serviceable, and on top, it adds in the best live keyboard I have ever played...

Not too shabby for an out of production relic that you can pick up for a song!

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 09-29-2010).]

Forgive my duplicate posts - I am a newbie, after all.


Diki makes a cogent case for the G70, and hey, there's one on fleabay for £340 with less than a day to go. I even think that it might recognise my discover5 smartmedia, therebt
y saving me even more time...

PS Diki, before I registered, I 'lurked' for quite a while (not sure if our terminology is the same?) and thought your posts were constructive and well thought-out, unlike some of the Yamaha fan-boys....

Welcome to SZ, son...always nice to see another Roland fan-boy.

You're in excellent company.

Nick, this forum caters to all...Yamaha fan-boys, Audya fan-boys, Korg fan-boys, and, yes, Roland fan-boys as well.

Some are even fan-boys for several brands.

Having said that, Diki would never steer you wrong, so pay attention to our resident Roland guru...the G-70 is a super arranger.

Ian

Well, if you know and use the word 'cogent', you're a fairly big step away from many of the Yamaha fan-boys already! (Just kidding, kids...!)

But be careful petting that dog... they BITE!

I wouldn't BET on that Smartmedia card working in the G70. It's possible you can find a PCMCIA adapter to use it in the G70, but I doubt it has the same folder structure to work properly. But you will probably be able to transfer much of the data, especially SMF's and styles, to a computer and reorganize it there. But Performances (UPG's, whatever the Discover calls them) I would be surprised if they work as is...

That's a bit of a dodgy price on the G70. Be careful it's not a scam. Over here in the States, used G70's in GREAT condition go for $1500-2000, and out of production, I wouldn't want to risk a less than great condition. Mind you, at a few hundred quid, you don't have THAT much to lose!

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 09-29-2010).]

Hey

I'm sorry if i caused any offence...

Please bear in mind both my 'newbie' status, and the fact that I know **** about the technology. (you could of course factor in the fact that I know 'squat' about 'squat')

The only thing I do know, is that I have been running a succesful act for over 20 years..

I also know that you guys have far more experience than me, and the flavour of the site seems to suggest that
In order to get a proper response you need to be a bit inflammatory. So, I have been a bit 'mischievious

Cheers,

Nick'



[This message has been edited by themutiny (edited 09-29-2010).]

Good point Diki, and Nick can rest assured that any cogency on your part would be very sincere.

I believe Roland keep parts on hand for about 10 years, according to my rep buddy, Daniel, so that's another consideration if Nick plans a long term investment.

When was the G-70 launched...2002 or thereabouts?

Ian

Trust me, list price on those replacement parts, especially important ones like motherboards and displays is WAY more than the total cost of a used G70 at those sort of prices. I wouldn't be worrying too much, just make sure it's cherry to start with, if you can.

And don't worry about being a newbie or just learning this stuff. All you will have to do on this forum to get attacked like a Danish cartoonist drawing the Prophet Muhammad is simply BREATHE a word of criticism of Yamaha or its' fans!...

We're thinking of changing the name to the SZ General Arranger Religion forum, soon!

Hey Ian\

I know it does.... I also know that you are a amin mover/shaker on this BBS.

Fair play to you....

i have absolutely no idea what my last post was about...

It didn't make any sense...

I'm ****ed.................

Ha Ha...you are very observant, Nick, and you catch on very quickly...again, welcome to SZ.

No offence taken at all...in fact, fanboy describes 99% of the posters here on SZ.

Diki and Fran are dedicated Roland fanboys, so you can trust their enthusiasm for the G-70...and Diki knows everything that needs to be known about the G-70, and he will educate you in all it's pluses and minuses.

Ian

Well, if owning and using an arranger makes you a 'fanboy', then guilty as charged...

Personally, I tend to use it on those that are unwilling to criticize their OWN arranger to the degree they criticize others. And, on that score, I am NOT a 'fanboy'!

And that's why I love this forum...

You guys are REALLY interesting. Your 'netiquette' makes me gasp - but hey....

Since the G-70's keybed is only shared with a few other Roland products (if any), I'd be concerned about the availability of replacement key contacts/strips as well.

All it takes is a spill of soda pop, especially Coca-Cola, and key contacts are history...only goes to show, that not everything goes better with Coke.

You were wise to buy a back-up G-70.

Ian

Look guys - I have to say:

In Europe(well UK), we seem to be a bit more tolerant??

I shouldn't have used such an inflammatory term.. I apologise, but at the same time I would defend myself by saying: 'That's not inflammatory here...."

Er.... - still drunk..

Heck, Nick, here in Canada we've always believed in tolerance...

Fanboy is not inflammatory anywhere, as far as I know.

I just think of a fanboy, as being a person with a liking and enthusiasm for something, be it a keyboard, automobile, or whatever.

Fanboys can also be highly critical of their product choices, as in Diki's case with the G-70...on the other hand, if the product is already perfect for one's needs...

Ian

Hey - thanks for that, Ian.

I really can't do the more 'combative' approach to these forums. I really do value the advice I might glean from this site.

My question is actually quite simple:

I love my DisCover5, but it is on it's last legs. Can anyone suggest a viable alternatrive??

Please?

Pretty please??


;-)

Diki & Fran - All your G70 cheerleading has made me boardsick for the ol' gal. It was, by far, the best arranger I've ever owned. Though I do miss it, I've come to accept and live with another great board, the s910 - a completely different animal, but good nonetheless.

Other than raw sound, to be honest I'd probably put the S910 as a 'better' PURE arranger than the G70, assuming one is going to put the styles in it that suit you best. OS-wise, it's got a LOT going for it... multiple drum channels, synchronized arranger and SMF play, multipads, break/fills, Mega guitars with guitar optimized NTT's, SA voices, the list goes on and on. In fact, the root cause of my campaign to get a 76 PSR910 is because I REALLY want one!

The fact that the G70 covers the SMF and live play bases better (and I can't GET a 76 910!) still makes it the better choice FOR ME, but I have NEVER simply dissed Yamaha's across the board, and really wished I got some brownie points for that once things get heated up! So much of what I say POSITIVE about Yamaha's gets forgotten completely once the 'red mist' comes down on ITS' 'fanboys' (apparently, we are ALL those, now ) in response to the slightest critique...

Hey - express an opinion, and you're a FanBoy(tm)

Seriously, I have this G70 'opportunity'. Should I engage??\

if your looking for just a module, especially a Roland the choices are limited and Roland there none.

Ketron would be the only choice for a module for midi playback and arranger playing.

If you really like the Rolands and need a keybed, I would stick with another Roland like G70 or E80. They are still very good keyboards.

If you can inspect it before you buy it, and the seller doesn't have a lot of negative feedback on whatever site he's on, I'd say go for it! It's WAY less than what I paid for my (cherry) second G70...!

Sight unseen, seller unknown, no recourse if you are unsatisfied with its' condition, I'm not so sure... depends if you can afford to lose a few hundred quid or not.