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#293818 - 09/21/10 03:06 PM Re: Why the G70 is the "best" to me..recap
mc Offline
Member

Registered: 07/17/01
Posts: 870
Loc: New York
I have to say, I applaud you, Fran and Gary Diamond for really looking past the newer arrangers and seeing that; what I have suites me fine. Not that a new arranger aren’t nice, fresh styles, new voices, cool features. But I sometimes wish that I didn’t buy on impulse the next new thing. As some of you know, I’m Portuguese and I play Spanish, Brazilian and Portuguese music. Yes, Leezone is one of my countrymen. I have friends and other acquaintances that I visit from time to time at their local businesses where they perform and some of them still use Ketron X1, Roland Va76, Korg i30.( But Ketron’s are mostly really popular with Portuguese). The keyboard sounds great, they sound great and people are having a good time. Then I wonder, how many keyboards have I owned since my Ketron X1 and even my Roland EM2000 and then I wonder why? There was nothing wrong with them??? I admit, I made money and spend money. I now own a Ketron SD5 after my stint with Yamaha……but now I going to have new out look on my purchases. Do I really need it, what else can I do with my SD5 that I haven’t tried yet…….

I know I’m rambling….. But these are just my thoughts…..

Btw, I actually miss some of those older keyboards that I would not mind having again….
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Ketron X1 (Oldie but Goodie)

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#293819 - 09/21/10 03:21 PM Re: Why the G70 is the "best" to me..recap
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Quote:
Originally posted by mc:
I have to say, I applaud you, Fran and Gary Diamond for really looking past the newer arrangers and seeing that; what I have suites me fine. Not that a new arranger aren’t nice, fresh styles, new voices, cool features. But I sometimes wish that I didn’t buy on impulse the next new thing. As some of you know, I’m Portuguese and I play Spanish, Brazilian and Portuguese music. Yes, Leezone is one of my countrymen. I have friends and other acquaintances that I visit from time to time at their local businesses where they perform and some of them still use Ketron X1, Roland Va76, Korg i30.( But Ketron’s are mostly really popular with Portuguese). The keyboard sounds great, they sound great and people are having a good time. Then I wonder, how many keyboards have I owned since my Ketron X1 and even my Roland EM2000 and then I wonder why? There was nothing wrong with them??? I admit, I made money and spend money. I now own a Ketron SD5 after my stint with Yamaha……but now I going to have new out look on my purchases. Do I really need it, what else can I do with my SD5 that I haven’t tried yet…….

I know I’m rambling….. But these are just my thoughts…..

Btw, I actually miss some of those older keyboards that I would not mind having again….


MC..envie-me por correio electrónico que eu tenho uma pergunta a perguntar de você.

obrigado

onemanband52@yahoo.com

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#293820 - 09/21/10 03:23 PM Re: Why the G70 is the "best" to me..recap
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14208
Loc: NW Florida
I still believe that, more than features, or lead sounds, or size and weight, what TRULY makes most of us decide on a particular arranger is the STYLES...

If any other manufacturer made truly great Latin styles as Ketron do, there might not be this outswelling of love for them by the Latin music lovers. But they don't. Each arranger manages to find a niche that their styles are the best, and many of us pick them primarily for that (even if we can't admit to ourselves that that IS the reason!).

Yamaha have full, smooth, polished styles, with an emphasis on cinematic and filmic styles and oldies. Ketron have Latin nailed. Korg have great smooth jazz styles. Roland have punchy rock and dance stuff, a bit sparser than some. And each of us is looking for that thing, in our heart of hearts. And, despite all the bells and whistles, despite all the flaws, too, I honestly think the styles is what makes us decide.

And that is kinda sad, in a way, because each of these manufacturers COULD make styles like the others, too. But they DON'T. So we are left with far less choice than we COULD have... The guys that make the Ketron styles COULD make them for Yamaha, too (it's the PLAYING, far more than the basic sounds that make them so good), but as there isn't a living to be made selling styles as easy as they are to copy and distribute for free, they remain ROM only producers.

Bring back style copy protection!
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#293821 - 09/21/10 03:34 PM Re: Why the G70 is the "best" to me..recap
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Copy style protection will never happen with today's modern technology...someone will always figure out how to duplicate them......additionally manufactures dont want to spend all that money making new styles every model release like Yamaha every few years ...the design changes are all to close together for anything major too occur regarding styles.......they just want to SELL SELL SELL........mayeb makeing iot "EASIER" for THE PLAYER to make his own style creations would be a better choice when using a arranger workstation.

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#293822 - 09/21/10 03:45 PM Re: Why the G70 is the "best" to me..recap
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14208
Loc: NW Florida
Thing is, most of the people making ROM styles for the majors are NOT full-time employees of the manufacturers. And, if style copy protection could be made to work, would probably VERY much like to make more money making styles for all the other brands, too...

I've posted about this in the past, but will recap... Copy protection works VERY well when it is tied to hardware. Audio accelerator cards like the UAD's and TC stuff, NONE of their plug-ins have been cracked. They need the card to run on, and the plug-in is authorized by each individual card. If this can be made to work, then styles could be keyed to the individual arranger. You could swap them all you want, they simply won't work...

Would this cause hardship to the manufacturers? I honestly don't think so. Once upon a time, there WAS copy protection on styles. And the manufacturers had NO problem selling arrangers (or making money of of expansion styles). In fact, this might have been the heyday for arrangers...

Bring back copy protected styles!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#293823 - 09/21/10 03:59 PM Re: Why the G70 is the "best" to me..recap
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Copy protected styles as you describe could be a good idea "AGAIN" but could also backfire as people would have to purchase a whole new Kb like we did years ago also to enjoy the styles they learn to love from previous KBs.... will it solve the NOP 76 key problem in many models?, I dont think so.....will it bring back chord sequencers? ......not likely....will Style copy protection be something in our future in arranger KB's AGAIN? I doubt it...but it's nice to dream eh? makes good coffee table chat

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#293824 - 09/21/10 04:09 PM Re: Why the G70 is the "best" to me..recap
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14208
Loc: NW Florida
As many new sounds and OS features are incorporated into new arrangers' styles, I don't think the manufacturers are going to worry too much about newer styles being made backwards compatible hurting sales of new models. In fact, right now, we ALL know that whatever new styles come in the T4 will eventually get ported back to the T3, T2, etc.. And Yamaha won't make a dime on them. They won't sound as good as they do on the T4, and that's all that matters. And it somehow doesn't seem to stop people from buying T4's, even knowing that...

But if they implemented protected styles, they could SELL them to T3 owners and make a HUGE chunk of money they would ordinarily miss completely out on.

I honestly see protected styles as a win/win for the manufacturers, a win/win for the style makers, and a win/lose for us... Sure, we won't be able to STEAL them any more, but there will be a HUGE increase in the number and quality of those available...

Bring back protected styles!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#293825 - 09/21/10 04:32 PM Re: Why the G70 is the "best" to me..recap
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14208
Loc: NW Florida
BTW, you want to think of it this way, T2 players continuing to play the T2 despite two newer releases is quite an indictment Yamaha...

While Roland players have no new product to move to (I am not so sure Fran would still be extolling the G70 if there were newer product for him to buy! Me, it's going to take a Chord Sequencer to make me upgrade ), and are FORCED to stay with what we have, those playing T2's have had plenty of opportunity to move on, should they choose, yet find the new models less than compelling...

Come on, Ian... join me in the 'spin cycle'!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#293826 - 09/21/10 04:39 PM Re: Why the G70 is the "best" to me..recap
trident Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/22/04
Posts: 1457
Loc: Athens, Greece
I think copy protected styles will work as long as there is a "limited" public wanting them. If too many people want them, they may search for cheaper alternatives, and someone will crack the protection, no matter how difficult.

Actually, i believe that some proficient fellows can study, crack and take apart any manufacturers' operating system and samples and copy them, alter them and distribute them and so on, even make an emulator, (imagine an 76 keys midi controller with programmable buttons, set up to mimic a Tyros, sending signals to a Tyros emulator in a laptop), but the customers just aren't there. Yamaha's samples may interest, i don't know, maybe 100-200 persons, when a cracked application or game will interest thousands.

And keep in mind that the "trickle down" of the T4 styles to older arrangers, will actually act as an advertisement, for the latest and greatest. Yamaha doesn't lose money from musician X who has "borrowed"a handful of T4 styles and plays them on his S910, since musician X would never fork out the money to buy a T4 in the first place.

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#293827 - 09/21/10 04:49 PM Re: Why the G70 is the "best" to me..recap
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14208
Loc: NW Florida
As long as there is NO ability to copy them, I believe that market forces will determine the price. If only a handful want a style, it will be expensive. But if hundreds of THOUSANDS want the style, you can sell it for a buck and make a fortune!

An iTunes Store-like interface and system might be great. Allow third party style makers to sell styles (the operator of the store takes a percentage), the best ones succeed, the weak ones fail. But if you make money off of each and every person that uses a style, rather than now you have to make a LOT off the initial buyer, because he will then give it away free to his friends (and they to theirs, and so on), you can afford to make them so cheap that EVERYBODY will buy them.

I'd happily pay $20 a month for 20 new styles, IF they were good. But I'm not sure I'd pay $20 for ONE style. No matter HOW good it is. I'd want too many more, and end up broke!
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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