Well we would just have to agree to disagree on this one.
Most people would agree that it does not matter if the style is categorized or not.
It is a style regardless of where you put it.

Once it has the basic feature of a multi track groove that is looped and follows your manual chord changes, then it is a style.
Where you put that on the keyboard does not change what it is.

If I put a funk style where all the reggae styles are it does not change the fact that it is a style.

The categorization of a style is a manufacturer specific feature to help the user and not to define what the tool is.

The Motif XS may have a rock style followed by a blues styled followed by a hiphop style. It does not change the fact that they are styles.

I think Bill is closer to the facts...Arps have been part of "workstations" for a long time...even cheap workstations..

To use an "arp" (Not a Style), compared to "arranger mode"..as a performing solo act..is nothing short of a nightmare..

If you put as much programming time into programming an "arranger" keyboard like G70, PA2x, Tyros3, Audya....the results will far exceed the capabilities of the Motif..or the M3 and Fantom...

Here are some noted differences..a style can have more parts..the basic 8 parts with different variations (as many as over 20)..within a style (arranger style, not a pattern or arp)..

Styles could be 32 measures long and play glitch free when used with other variations with different measure lengths..

Same with the intros and endings...and fills..


You guys that perform solo workstation gigs..I want to come and hear you..They don't call them "workstations" for nothing..

After 60-70 songs as a solo...you would have earned your money...and don't ask for request..you most likely wouldn't be able to handle them..

The only saving grace..the workstations will play sequences too..

I am of the same mind set that I have always been...."workstations" are highly over-rated...even sound wise...The "modern sound" is a cop out to use workstations...and I still say if you spent as much time on an arranger as you would need too ..programming a workstation....you would be ahead of the game...far ahead..

BTW: I am not impressed with the quality of the sounds on the Motif...or the Fantom..

I take the G70 over the Fantom any day....In fact I have already done that..

The manufacturers would have to modify their workstations so much to conform to the abilities of their top line arrangers..that is makes no sense...Just add what the workstation has and add that to the superior "Arranger model"..I don't know what feature I would want from a workstation..sampling, maybe multi track recording..or some other less than useful feature to use on stage..

For those who have not played a XS in performance mode, I would suggest that you do that before talking on this topic.

If you go in performance mode, select a performance like a jazz performance, and play chords, you would see that the performance follows your chord changes. You do not have to do any programming. So that is the first incorrect statement that you have to program in order to make the XS behave as a style.

Now if you press one of the SF buttons, you will get variations and fills. There are 6 SF buttons but only 5 are available for variations and fills. so you may get 3 variations and 2 fills or some combination there of.

So far what I just described can be done on a G70.
Now, is the XS a full featured arranger? Of course not. No one ever said it is. However, it can perform basic arranger functions with the use of styles.

Whether a style has 4 or 8 tracks does not make it a style. Whether a style can play fills in the middle of a bar does not change the fact that it is a style.

Who cares? ....that's why you have the choice of the two styles of units,.... arranger or workstation..simple as that.
There so many OTHER things in the music business that DON'T use styles at all, this is where a Workstation shines, Motion picture scores, commercials, sound effects, television shows, etc, etc, etc, and on & on all using Synth/Workstations. Having one of each is the perfect combination IMO to create music of all kinds.

My brother owns the Motif Xs and the instrument has performance mode . In that mode you can select categories like,

Rock, Jazz,Funk, blues etc

Select the category and the preset configuration will allow you to hold down the left hand keys and play lead in the right hand and the appropriate style for that category will play.....just like an arranger.


Dont just take my word for it.

This is from the magazine electronic musician January 2008
http://emusician.com/elecinstruments/yamaha_motif_xs/

'The XS provides 384 Performance memory slots and 128 Master slots, all of them user programmable. In a Performance, you can split, layer, or both split and layer four Parts across the keyboard, with each Part containing a Voice. You can assign a separate arpeggio to each Part, and all four arpeggiators can run simultaneously and in sync.

Many of the factory Performances put drums, bass, and a chording instrument on the left half of the keyboard, all three with active arpeggios, while the right hand can play a separate lead sound. If you play lounge gigs and need to play requests, you're going to love this feature. Just dial up a Performance in some appropriate style (many pop styles are well represented), and you're ready to go. Each Performance stores settings for the audio input, allowing you to route a mic through the chorus and delay effects, assuming you have a separate mixer or a mic with a ¼-inch plug. A mono XLR input would have been useful.

In Performance mode, you can press the Record button and record a 4-Part keyboard performance into a Song or Pattern Section. This capability is one of my favorite XS features. For sketching a song into the sequencer, it can save days of work.

Like Performance mode, the Master section is intended mainly for gigging. Each Master can call up a Voice, a Performance, a Pattern, or a Song. Each can also map keyboard zones to the MIDI Out port for controlling external modules. Master mode is useful for gigging with backing tracks in the sequencer, because a Master lets you layer two or more internal Voices within a single keyboard zone.'

if you did not understand all that, then in simple terms its says ' this keyboard has arranger functions including registrations and a song book feature similar to the Korg PA range where you can call up settings and styles linked to songs for your performances'.

Thanks Spalding
That’s all I wanted to find out when I asked the question about the XS. (As I said I am not familiar with it)
It meets all the requirements that a backing needs to be legitimately called a style.
Regards

Bill

I listened to all the youtube videos...again..

Is "yuk" a word?

If this is what you want to use..go buy it...Save the box...if you use it live for any extent of time...you will be bored at best...

This is a workstation..pure and simple..it plays "arps"......Spend $800 on a Juno G or $1,100 on a Juno stage....and get it out of your system..at a fraction of the cost..

Using the Motif as your backing instrument, is not for me....If it works for you..fine..

I can't see the Motif being used this way...not when the same company makes an arranger...There is not a single benefit for me doing so..

The vast majority of people I know that work with workstations..live...just misunderstand the advantages an arranger has over the workstation...

and yes..I have owned many "workstations" from Roland , Korg and Yamaha...

The only "workstation" that qualifies as an arranger too..is my MediaStation..

Motifs and other workstations from Yamaha and Roland have "arranger" features, but that does not make them arrangers.

The styles (arps) in a workstation are far less complex than the styles in an arranger...they are still "styles", but they ain't nearly as flexible.

Ian

If you guys are judging the Motif XF sound quality by that YouTube video you shouldn't. I played the Motif XF8 in person and I can tell you firsthand the sounds on it are very, very good to excellent in quality. Compared to the Motif XS (which I owned for a short while) the sounds on the Motif XF are slightly an improvement in my opinion. One thing Yamaha does well is in giving their workstations very good sounds, especially in the Acoustic sound category. I noticed that the Synth sounds on the Motif XF are very nice also. Kudos to Yamaha for continuing their tradition of providing excellent bread 'n butter sounds as well as very good to excellent Synth type sounds too.

Another thing I'd like to point out is that the "melding" of workstation's and arrangers is coming closer together as we see with the new Motif XF. It would be nice if Yamaha added actual "styles" to their workstations but instead of calling them styles Yamaha could give them a more professional name - for the professional crowd who are mainly the people who buy high end workstations in the first place. Perhaps "Performance Beats" could fulfill that function but would need to include "intros, endings", eight instrument channels to give a full band sound, breaks/fills, etc., which they seem to partially do right now, at least in a rudimentary way.

One thing I wish Yamaha would try and change is the LCD screen on the Motif line which is still too small plus the resolution is substandard in my opinion. I also noticed there was a noticeable screen change "delay" when pushing some of the buttons on the XF which was frustrating to say the least. You want the buttons and menu screens to change instantly especially on stage during a live performance. The Tyros2/3 also have a noticeable screen change delay too, which is unfortunate. Apparently Yamaha is using older CPU chips?? that don't have the necessary "gumption" to keep up with everything in real time; at least as far as navigating between screens goes anyway. If the processor(s) are up to snuff there would be NO delay whatsoever, needless to say. Maybe Yammie is trying to save a buck (or two) in the production process although if they are they're being penny wise and pound foolish, as their customers are ultimately the one's that lose out and may well drive people away from Yamaha (and the Motif XF) and to other keyboard manufacturers - like Roland and Korg, etc.

All the best,
Mike

Yes Michael, Yamaha has driven so many people to Roland arrangers, that Roland had to stop makin' 'em...probably because they couldn't keep up with the demand.

All companies try to save money by various means, some successful, some not...but, you are right to some degree...the customer can vote with their buying power; however successful it will be, remains to be seen.

Ian