Electronic music is 126 years old . Older than Rock and Roll and older than most forms of music played today . Electronic music is gaining popularity with people like MOBY , AIR , and it's the sole driving force in HIP HOP and RAP . Infact HIP HOP and RAP couldn't exist without it . There are alot of people here in this forum , I guess I wanted to know what everyone is doing ? What do you think about electronic music today ? How difficult has it been for you to get you're music heard ? What do you think the A&R people are looking for ? I saw the video for MOBY'S " We are all made of Stars " and while it's a catchy tune , it's by no means a brilliant one . It is not beyond anyone here to create music like that . What is everyone's goal here ? What kind of a mark do you want to leave ?

Moby only makes music for commercials these days. It's sad really.

That's what A&R people want.

-tek

i want to make songs you can make love to your old woman by.

but really i want to share my music with people in a non anonymous enviroment...so no posting my songs on websites or anything like that. i want to play live, and play hard. so far thats my only goal.

800dv:
I'm assuming you're calling the invention of the phonograph (in 1877) as the beginning of electronic music. However, for nearly a century, the use of "electronics" with music was about preserving accoustic or electrically-amplified performance. Distorting or rearranging those recordings, or synthetically generating sounds electronically, for the porpose of making new sounds and new musical expressions, began in earnest only in the 1960's (and, not incidently, substantially outside of the world of popular music).

As for "leaving one's mark..." Although I'm also a great believer in live performance, I'm afraid MRT1212 and I seriously part company on the "non-anonymous" point - it's a pet peeve of mine, so pardon while I indulge myself . . .

Most of today's "music" is about celebrity, recognition, and profit. The actual writing and performing of music is a caboose on that train. My attitude is that music posted on a website as free download is one of the most sincere forms of artistic endeavor, since the artist is giving of himself purely for the purpose of musical expression and pleasure without concern for or interest in whether the appeal is broad enough to generate self-serving celebrity or profitability.

My ideal in musical success is a former insurance account executive by the name of Charles Ives, who wrote in obscurity (and at night) for much of his life. His music was revolutionary, idiosyncratic, and personal. His eventual recognition was one brought on by the sheer force and quality of that music as promoted by other composers and performers who recognized it. Comparing his stature and contribution to Moby's is a little like comparing the importance of Edison's invention of the phonograph to the invention of the 8-track tape player.

Oldschool - wrong again ! The first synthesizer called the Musical telegraph was made in 1876 . It was an instrument that created sine waves electronically . The Telharmonium was made in 1897 , a huge synthesizer that was to be copied by Laurens Hammond but on a much smaller scale with his organs in the 1930s. Electronic Music , that is creating tones electronically is far older than the 1960s . The first ALL electronic music score for a movie was done in 1956 for the FORBIDDEN PLANET . All of the music for that movie was done by Louis and Bebe Barron and was done on electronic instruments that they built themselves . I have a 1939 Recording of John Cage's " Imaginary Landscapes #1 " using the Theremin and other electronic gear . I have early Japanese tape music from the late 40s and early 50s ( music concrete ) . E'TUDE AUX CHEMINS DE FER by Pierre Schaffer in 1948 ( tape music - music concrete ) . Piece for Tape Recorder by Vladimir Ussachevsky in 1956 . Those first synthesizers in the late 1800s were made before amplifier technology - they were to be broadcast over telephone lines . You are saying the 1960s ?????? What are you thinking ???? I suggest you do A LOT more research before any more babble comes from you . If you learned that in School , I suggest you get a refund - it was money well waisted . I sorry to be so harsh but I have little tolerance for such a LACK of knowledge on the history of ELECTRONIC MUSIC . Especially when it is the SINGLE most important advancement in music in the last 200 years . 1960s , what the hell were you thinking ??????????????????????

Goo'ness!
OK, I defer to your greater historical knowledge of the world of electronic music. I do assert that my primary assertions (the early focus of recorded music, and the "beginning in earnest" of electronic processing in the '60s) are technically correct. The dabblings of folks like John Cage, who used accoustic instruments and ambient "real sounds" almost exclusively until late in his career ("Imaginary Landscape No. 1" being a pretty rare exception) can't really be called an awakening of the genre, nor can the very early film scores.

But I'm picking nits. You can have your "superior knowledge" moniker with no protest from me. I would, however, be curious as to how you justify the inclusion of the terribly derivative use of electronic sampling and sequencing in current hip-hop and rap into such a varied and interesting historical context. It's hard to compare the desperately unoriginal and repetitive sampling of something like Fat Boy Slim's "Weapon of Choice" to the intense and abstract tape manipulations of Morton Subotnik's 1967 "Silver Apples..." I realize we're comparing apples to oranges, but, by my read, the world of electronic music, as a body, is simply not moving forward.

I do admit to having downloaded the "Weapon of Choice" video, but it sure wasn't for the music . . .

. . . oh, and as to my useless degrees - BA and two years of graduate work in music theory and composition, with a side-long glance at viola performance. It was really quite worth the very slim money I paid for it (state universities were really pretty cheap when I was young), but it did not include electronic music specifically. The University of North Texas, where I did my abortive graduate work, had a very active electronic lab of which I never darkened the door. (My pedagody of theory teacher at UNT couldn't stand Bartok and Stravinski...you can imagine what he thought of Cage.)

All of my dabbling in the craft of electronic music has been in the last 4 years, and is as much a result of my current "day job" focus of computer multimedia (I'm a K-12 technology resource teacher) blended with an odd-lot of songwriting from my club days in the 70's, as any exposure to the historical roots of electronic music.

oldschool, i didnt mean to imply i want celebrity status or something like that.

its just that to me, internet based distrobution of my music seems so impersonal...i want to give people an experience that isnt just 1's and 0's from a website in the endless sea of websites.

i could care less about putting my music on a website, or selling cds. in fact id rather just play live than anything else right now.

Im with MRT. I just wanna play for people. I don't care if I make a million on a movie or commercial, or if a million people hear my song on the internet and like it. I just want people to experience my synth bass and music through a system with a lot of watts. Is that too much to ask? unfortunatly, if you don't have guitar, drums, vocals, your nothing, at least where Im from.
Im working on getting money for a quality demo at a Protools studio. Until then, nobody is gonna hear my expression.

I'm sorry then Oldschool , get you're money back . I don't see how you can say early electronic film scores don't count . I don't see how you can say tape music from the 40s and 50s don't count . What the hell do you think sampling is ??????? That is what tape music is all about --- sampling sounds and then rearranging them . What the hell are you thinking ???? The first thing I learned in college was to challenge what I was being told . Just because they hold the rank of being the teacher doesn't mean a damn thing . Your insight in this is poor - that's being kind . Your educational background means NOTHING except the fact that you play Viola - I do like that . Stick to that !

800dv: although you are completely correct about the history of electronic music, I think you miss the point that OldSchool is trying to make. In fact, you sound exactly like the "celebrity, recognition, and profit" type OldSchool is talking about. You've created this discission and then jump all over people for giving you their honest answer. It sounds to me like you really didn't want to know what other people think as much as you wanted to show off what you learned in class last week. Do you have any original thoughts of your own on this matter or are you going to keep quoting your teacher? This forum has more huge egos on it than actual honest/helpful people.

These are My thoughts . I'm not refering to any comercial aspects at all . None at all . As far as the other part of the topic , no one other than Tek has responded to that .

I don't want to start another argument , I take electronic music very seriously . It's very important to me . Just like painting is very important to an artist . Just like a autoracer might prefer FORD over CHEVY . Everyone has something that is very important to them , everyone does . When I went to college , I was told the same things that were told to Oldschool . Then one day I came across this old recording of Harold Bode ( the guy who made the first vocoder in 1939 ) . I thought it was a very cool sounding piece , it was way ahead of it's time . Harold Bode also biult alot of other electronic music machines . I guess the point is that when anyone says that electronic music got it's official start in the 60s , is wrong , dead wrong , and there ain't no two ways about it . I've spent along time researching this , so far the oldest electronic music record I've found was done in 1939 . I'm still looking , it ain't easy but I have some more leads . The point is that when someone says something that ridiculous , it's like it ignores all the people who were bulding electronic music systems , using and making electronic music long before the 60s. My Uncle ( who is now dead ) worked for RCA from 1943 to 1979 , he designed or helped to design some early electronic music systems . He also worked on the RCA MARK 1 synthesizer in 1951 and the MARK 2 in 1956 . Electronic music was being done not only with samples , but with electronic sound equipment long before the 60s . The 60s already had a huge pallet laid down for them by people like Harold Bode , Vladimir Ussachevski , Pierre Henry , Pierre Shaeffer , Otto Luening , Luc Ferrari , John Cage , Iannis Xenakis just to name a few . That is the truth , the fact that it really started in the 60s is NOT !

DMC:
Thanks for your note.
MRT1212:
You are correct, there is something very special about live performance, something quite missing from web delivery. I did latch onto your "non anonymous" a little too tightly. Most of my live work was in clubs, and I really don't miss that much anymore, but a stage is a whole 'nother kettle o' fish!
optinone:
Don't apologize for the slate of instrumental sounds you've chosen - it's the demands of commercialism that dictate you have to, as you say, " . . . have guitar, drums, vocals . . ." Make the music you hear!
800dv:
You may assume that since you've posted essentially the same remarks four times in this thread that we've all gotten the message. I also think you might be struggling with the difference between "began" and "began in earnest", but it's quite moot, and I've already ceded the point. As to who has responded to your original question - I have (the mark I wish to leave is any contribution I can make to the art regardless of whether anybody sees me it it), MRT and optinone have (it's about playing live), and, of course, tek has. Have you?

You damn right I have made the same comments over and over again . If it pisses you off , good ! It should . As for what I do with my music , I make a pretty good contribution to my area here . Do I want to grow ? Sure . You have made you're point as well , as ridiculous as it is . It doesn't mean that I have any bad feelings toward you . I very rarely make posts here because most , not all , but most people here do nothing but attack people . I keep on learning , and I have met some good people here . The true sign of ignorance is a person who is totally satisfied with there own opinion , you seem to fit that . I'm not here to compete with anyone . I'm here to meet new people . If you want to spread garbage , I'll just sit back and watch the rest of you attack each other . Go ahead . I stand by what I said , you are an idiot . Now I have attacked , but that's all I'm gonna do . Do we keep this up ? Do we keep attacking each other ?? Do you post again , calling me an idiot ?? Or just say that I'm repeating myself ?????? I'll admit , I like to stir up stupid people , but I try not to do it here . I'll leave it now to the rest of you sheep .

Wow.

As if there isn't enough hate in the world, some feel compelled to spew venom all over folks simply trying to engage them in a friendly conversation?!

800dv, you are one seriously anti-social mofo.

OldSchool, your restraint is remarkable.

I think everybody just needs to simmer down. You know what, I think Arguing is good for people. MRT and I got into it a couple a months ago about DJs, but you know what? In essence we were argueing about 2 different things, and came to an understanding about these different things.
I don't think 800 is trying to piss off anybody here. He knows something and is trying to share it. Personally I am with 800 but just becuase that Disney guy was researching with sound way before the 60s, and experiemental sound is music to me.

Oh yeah, Oceansize, your not anybetter than anyone here
Quote:
As if there isn't enough hate in the world, some feel compelled to spew venom all over folks simply trying to engage them in a friendly conversation?!

800dv, you are one seriously anti-social mofo.

OldSchool, your restraint is remarkable.

"Anti-social mofo" is Venom too, so what are you talking about?

Don't put your 2 cents where they don't belong! You just makin it worse.

I like 800dv, he is honest and also has a great skill. I love electronic music as well.
And like 800dv I like to do research to find the oldest electronic music ever made to learn a different approach to the modern electronic music. I like MOBY he is a genius! I think that this nasty email wouldn't start if people without knowledge in electronic music didn't posted in this thread, you don't like the sobject don't reply, that's what I do. I personally learn a lot of things from 800dv posts and discovered artists name that I didn't know.
THANK YOU 800dv! Unfortunatly I'm way a beginner in electronic music studies and I can't share any new stuff that you probably already know but keep posting for people that appreciate electronic music like me and I will share my opinion if I think it will help to get further in the sobject. Personally I think that the "ingredients" for a good electronic music are: fresh drum and percussion, catchy riff, melodic enough but not cheesie, and a little bit of effects here and there especially on the vocals if there are any. Thank you for reading my post. I apologize for my english, I'm Italian and I like to learn english gradually, hopefully will get better soon if people corrects me without attaching my "funny" language. 800dv keep working in the direction you have take, I think you are one cool dude and I like your attitude, I'm sure you're not aggressive if people try to have a civilized conversation with you instead of attaching you.

Cheers,
Maximo

[This message has been edited by Maximo (edited 04-30-2002).]

Hi 800dv,
it's me again.
I have a question for you.
Is the "Harold Bode" you're talking about in one of your reply by any chance the "Harold Budd" that collaborated with "Elizabeth Frazer" and the "Cocteau Twins" in the album "The Moon and the Melodies" in the 1986? If that is the case I think it spells Budd" and not "Bode", just to make sure that no ones attach you for giving a wrong information and clearifing a miss spelling.

Cheers,
Maximo

Or are you talking about the German "Harald Emerich Walter Bode"? If this is the case the name spells "Harald" and not "Harold", again just a miss spelling, those german names!

Cheers,
Maximo

No , actually it's Harold Bode . He is an american who designed many electronic music instruments in the 1930s to the 1970s or there about . I don't really know what his heritage background is . He was an american though . He made alot of interesting instruments . His vocoder was demonstrated at the 1939 Worlds Fair in New York City .