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#289070 - 06/15/10 07:56 PM Re: arrangers vs. PC software
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2144
Loc: Columbia City, IN USA
If your not into or up to the task of heavy integration and customization almost like programming then closed is the way to go.
Some of us do have those skills and desires...so we like the open systems, at least somewhat.

The thing is..I can handle the integration...but, Im not musically talented enough to deveop all the performaces I want (styles are available, but need lots of re-voicing in some cases).

Anyway, I don't think I have enough time left to do all that and develop better playing skills. So, at this time...I choose to work on my music skills.

Lee S.
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Lee S.

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#289071 - 06/15/10 08:18 PM Re: arrangers vs. PC software
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
For all the invective from the open fans, I AM a big user of open systems But simply put, I use computer based open systems for when I use them in the studio, and closed for when I perform live and need to do stuff quickly. Until the open keyboard does the quick stuff as well as it does the slow, I don't NEED two different keyboards. One for live, and software on a computer for studio works well, is inexpensive, and covers all the bases.

When things change, I'll revisit the question. But it's obvious from the lack of anything live from the open boys (or the poor quality of what little IS posted) that the reality does not match the hyperbole, yet. Technology moves pretty quickly, on the whole. But we've been waiting YEARS for the reality of open keyboards to match it's potential. Still waiting...

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#289072 - 06/21/10 07:36 AM Re: arrangers vs. PC software
DAN.2000 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 1068
Loc: FRANCE
I am the creator of the vArranger software.

Mixing the best of the 2 worlds is a good solution :

vArranger software + Ketron SD2 sound module.

Gives you a perfect, ready to play, professional solution.

Dan
http://www.varranger.com
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Regards,

Dan
https://www.varranger.com

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#289073 - 06/21/10 01:07 PM Re: arrangers vs. PC software
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3353
Loc: The World
Quote:
Originally posted by DAN.2000:
I am the creator of the vArranger software.

Mixing the best of the 2 worlds is a good solution :

vArranger software + Ketron SD2 sound module.

Gives you a perfect, ready to play, professional solution.

Dan
http://www.varranger.com


Way too expensive in my view, especially when coupled with the SD2... Especially out here! (in Oz that is )

And for all that money, its still not as good as the closed arranger which can be purchased for the same amount. No PC needed

No offence meant, just some observations.

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#289074 - 06/22/10 06:06 AM Re: arrangers vs. PC software
DAN.2000 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/09/01
Posts: 1068
Loc: FRANCE
What is that cheaper keyboard you are talking about?

Here we get the sound quality of the Ketron SD5 who is like 3 times more expensive.

Of course, even if the sounds are the sames, we cannot compare hardware arrangers and software arrangers.

It's really 2 options.

Hardware is more stable, and more cable free than softwares (even if I gig today with vArranger without any problems, and install all in 5 minutes)

Today, half of my gigs are done with my old but good Ketron SD1, and half with vArranger.

vArranger is not only a good and stable arranger, but also a very nice tool to create new sounds (layered) very easily, with a nice graphical interface.

I will post soon some demos of my new Ketron SD2 sounds (+ oriental sounds)

Amazing !!

Also, about the price, there is currently a special offer (6 days left) for group buy when you can get a good reduction.
http://www.varranger.fr/vforum/index.php?topic=52.0

Of course, softwares are not against hardware, but along with hardware

Dan http://www.varranger.fr
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Regards,

Dan
https://www.varranger.com

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#289075 - 06/22/10 06:37 AM Re: arrangers vs. PC software
Ensnareyou Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/02
Posts: 491
Loc: California
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
When things change, I'll revisit the question. But it's obvious from the lack of anything live from the open boys (or the poor quality of what little IS posted) that the reality does not match the hyperbole, yet. Technology moves pretty quickly, on the whole. But we've been waiting YEARS for the reality of open keyboards to match it's potential. Still waiting...


Things changed about 10 years ago when Wersi came out with OAS and have continually progressed beyond any closed system thereafter. You've never even played and OAS system in person but you're sure quick to negate it. I can't imagine what more you'd need the system to do as its already beyond everything else available in sound, features, and function.

The reality is the Wersi plays back VST's and sampled sounds that easily rival any closed system, your beloved G70 included. You being a devoted VST user should know just how superior their sound is. The Wersi factory sounds alone rival nearly every TOTL arranger out there and there are far more sounds as well (nearly 1 GB). I know you'll chime in proclaiming the user needs to spend hundreds or thousands more in VST's to make it useful but that simply isn't true. You'd know that if you actually took the initiative to play one. Why not take the time to get to know the keyboard personally before spewing misinformation and negativity about the system?

I believe you are in FL. Florida happens to have one of the highest concentrations of OAS systems so finding one to audition should be quite simple. Even though you've belittled Wersi owners and their keyboards time and time again I'm sure we nice folks would welcome you to audition one. Try it, be informed, then perhaps the bashing will stop.

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#289076 - 06/22/10 10:42 AM Re: arrangers vs. PC software
brickboo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/04/01
Posts: 2068
Loc: Fruita, Colorado, USA
I have tunes sequenced on my keyboard to play my sax. I also have many tunes I use live from BIAB now for at least 8 years. I've never had BIAB substitute any chord for the one I put in.
Does anyone else use BAIB and had that problem?
Thanks, I'm just curious!
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I'm not prejudiced, I hate everybody!! Ha ha! My Sister-In-Law had this tee shirt. She was a riot!!!

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#289077 - 06/22/10 11:36 AM Re: arrangers vs. PC software
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
I am only speaking for the piano found in Goliath. I did not check the full Pianos library that Eastwest has.

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#289078 - 06/22/10 11:46 AM Re: arrangers vs. PC software
arranger_yes_pc_no Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 319
Quote:
Originally posted by Bachus:
The strong selling point of open workstations/arrangers is for people that make their own music and own arrangements.

Still Lionstracs instruments are far from open.... as all buttons are tightly knit to the lionstracs interface. This allows for easy access and easy operation..

I think Lionstracs is the perfect mix between an open system and a closed arranger.. because live-arranger works pretty much like a closed arranger.. which also needs a standard soundset, because otherways it will be very hard to create content for these instruments...

Open-labs systems are much more open then Lionstracs... because of their freely programmable interface and knobs..

But the Liomnstracs almost offers all features without most of the downfalls as written about by Diki under his new account.
To be accessible there needs to be standards, Lionstracs is way less open then a PC, and exactly that adds possibillities for the community as there is a standard.


I might agree with you about Liontracs, it looks like what I might be looking for, but for now it's early to say, the presentations are not exaustive enough yet. Open Labs makes an optimized PC into a keyboard. Not what I want, at all.

For now I am very satisfied with the PSR, and I also bought a cheap Tascam audio multitracker. I am breathing fresh air again and feel like I have dropped a burden.
The PC stuff will be left alone until I write the full tracks on the PSR, as I have mentioned before.

And for the record, I am NOT Diki, so maybe it would be wise that you don't assume things that would then appear silly... Just a word of advice.

[This message has been edited by arranger_yes_pc_no (edited 06-22-2010).]

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#289079 - 06/22/10 04:09 PM Re: arrangers vs. PC software
beachbum Offline
Member

Registered: 11/18/02
Posts: 641
Loc: Austin
I have been playing around with Sonar and all the patches and mixing and this and that... Takes forever to get anything done. I can't beat the quality I've gotten from my past set up, simple arranger board recording to the computer with adobe Audition... Check out the sound quality, even if you don't like this type of music you have to admit this is pretty good with no additional extra's
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=313920

[This message has been edited by beachbum (edited 06-22-2010).]
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