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#284667 - 04/06/10 12:14 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Tonewheeldude Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 1529
Jim...you have absolutely nailed it. If your audience notice the improvement you know the manufacturer got it right.

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#284668 - 04/06/10 12:29 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
What surprised me is that none of you actually NOTICED it was an SMF. I would have thought here of all places...

However, I must disagree with those that say that using an SMF takes LESS skill than style mode. It all depends on what you are actually PLAYING, and whether you are burning up a two fisted piano part, or doing your best Jan Hammer fusion licks, or holding down both the comps AND the lead lines (none of which you can do in style mode), just because they are over an SMF doesn't negate the skill it takes to play them.

There are some that think that, just because they are holding down ONE chord, and then playing a single line melody over the top, but the MACHINE is doing all the skilled playing, that it's actually THEM playing it! Sorry to burst your bubble...

I agree that Messier COULD have made the SMF from style play (probably did in part because of the live drums), but don't discount what he was playing on the top. Pretty much all of it (the good bits, at least) took two hands to do, and couldn't have been played at all with one hand tied up doing the LH chord input... Style mode takes skill, sure. But don't get high and mighty because someone eschews it to be able to perform better than you can with one hand.

The more I hear the Ketron live, the more I'm impressed with it. Sure, other arrangers might have it beat in a few areas, SA2, tonewheel sound, piano sound (a bit), but there isn't ONE of them that comes this close to the drums and bass. Not one...

My primary concern with the Audya these days (other than getting Lee and Tony to go bug the hell out of an ACTUAL Ketron forum and leave us the hell alone ) is that I don't do Euro-styled music or Latin, and would want styles specifically for the US market with the wonderful live drums. And let's face it, Ketron's follow-up to the SD-1 and SD-5 hasn't exactly been swimming with new live drum styles of ANY kind, let alone those good for US dancers. Past performance is always an indicator of future performance, and Ketron haven't exactly shone in that department. As I've said many times, Live drum styles are a double edged sword. They are SO good, you are not going to be happy using non-Live drum styles. So this puts the burden on the style MAKERS (those with the skill to make great audio styles) to keep making more of them, and to cover gaps in their musical genres that are popular in the US (if they want our business, that is) and other countries.

At least with a MIDI only arranger, third party or even new factory styles are going to sound VERY similar to the ROM ones (at least in tone). But I doubt that anyone is going to be making first rate Live Drum styles that don't simply re-use the existing patterns. And even if they DO, there's going to be a need for extraordinary care in making the drum sound match the ROM styles VERY closely. Unlike a MIDI style, you can't go in there and turn down the kick, or turn up the snare, or make the tom-toms more bright.

In my mind at least, there is no doubt that the Audya's live styles are head and shoulders beyond what anyone has currently achieved with a MIDI arranger. That is its' strength, but unfortunately, its' weakness, too...

(Sure wouldn't mind Tony's one nice and cheap after he messes it up and start to blame everybody ELSE for whatever problems he's going to find in OS4, though! )

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#284669 - 04/06/10 12:33 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
rphillipchuk Online   content
Member

Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 570
Loc: Ontario Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by Tonewheeldude:
You missed my point..I don't want to demean SZ,


I should have explained myself better.....I was not trying to show disrespect... I was just wondering, what and who are the "biggies", as far as forums like "SZ"...

I, among others here, have spent a lot of time here, and somehow we forget that there are other Forums too....Just wondering.....

Perhaps this should be be another thread !!!... Sorry !!!



------------------
createsongstyles.com
fakesheets.com

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#284670 - 04/06/10 12:45 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Tonewheeldude Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 1529
Nice post Diki.

I would like to hear more about what you want from a keyboard in the way of styles for the USA though. I know ketron are trying hard to make the Audya appeal more to Anglo American musicians rather than just their traditional European market.

Maybe start a new thread marked 'Diki's wish list?' and link to some songs on youtube for me to listen to.

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#284671 - 04/06/10 01:08 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Diki Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 12861
Loc: NW Florida
I think some DEALERS might be a good start... If I've got to drive over a thousand miles just to try one out (and heaven help me if there is a technical problem), at the price these are, getting a second one for backup is completely out of the question.

If I revolve my entire show around one piece of gear, it's got to be bomb-proof AND relatively easy to get a backup if it goes down. Ketron's US Dealer locater is a joke. Several states are completely missing (not sure how those in La. and Miss. feel about that!) and many of the states actually listed have no dealer at all. And most of those states are bigger than whole COUNTRIES in the EU

Ketron need to make up their mind. Do the WANT to be here or not? The way things are right now, they had better be building the most reliable piece of gear ever made...

Until Ketron make a REAL effort to penetrate the US market (and that's probably going to have to include allowing the dealers to have the same markup on Audya's that they have on other arrangers), it seems kind of pointless acting as if making styles for us is going to make any difference. Sure, I'd love a bunch of real Cajun, Zydeco (they AREN'T the same thing!), reggae, country (NOT European country!), alternative rock, emo, southern rock, New Orleans Mardi Gras styles, not to mention hiphop and rap and MODERN R&B.

Include them, but keep the dealers a thousand mile drive away, and it's still unlikely you are going to worry Yamaha or Korg in the least...

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#284672 - 04/06/10 01:10 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3115
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
The more I hear the Ketron live, the more I'm impressed with it.


i think i see an AUDYA in your future Diki,
if we can only get enough "American" styles in it to be useful for you :-)

to start, what may help is for example to:

list 10 songs that the AUDYA CANNOT play with it's abundance of internal styles, that perhaps other manufacturers (ie. Korg, Roland, Yamaha) CAN play.

and then, PERHAPS someone can start programming/developing/tailoring AUDYA with "American" styles.

i'm curious as to what styles specifically the AUDYA does not have that OTHERS do.

Diki, which styles?
which songs would you like (or rather) would NEED AUDYA to be able to play ?

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#284673 - 04/06/10 01:31 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
NiteLife Offline
Member

Registered: 04/02/10
Posts: 264
Loc: Cape Coral, Florida USA
To Leezone: Just prior to the current Audya & Tyros 3, I played a Korg PA80 and a Yamaha PSR 3000. The Korg served me very well for many years. It is still in service, I use it at home once in a while. The PSR 3000, I felt was a GREAT Arranger for the money. I had a lot of fun playing that machine. I sold it to my previous partner. He uses it in his home studio, and enjoys making his own tracks to play and sing with.

Prior keyboards included a Technics KN-5000, a Roland G-1000, a Roland ep-9 with a Kurzweil piano module midi in, a PSR 6700, a Korg I-5 and going way back a Roland E-20. Even further back, a Lowrey Symphonic Theater Organ which I played for 13 years. All 550 pounds of it. Also owned and played a Wurlitzer Theater organ and 2 Hammond's. A B-3 and a L-100 model and a Gulbranson. Still have the Wurlitzer and the Hammond L-100.

I've probably missed a couple other keyboards in there somewhere.

In our local music store, I tried out the Korg PX2Pro, but felt it wasn't that much of a sound improvement over my PA80. The latest Rolands, I haven't played. I was very disappointed in my G-1000 so I didn't keep up with the Roland's except seeing video's on YouTube.

I bought my Audya without ever playing it. My decision to buy was based only on internet research. Both the Audya and Tyros3 are winners in my book.

Jim

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#284674 - 04/06/10 01:35 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3115
Jim,

BUT if you could HAVE and USE only 1,
which would it be? T3 or AUDYA? :-)

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#284675 - 04/06/10 01:50 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
Tonewheeldude Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/21/10
Posts: 1529
Quote:
Originally posted by leezone:

which songs would you like (or rather) would NEED AUDYA to be able to play ?



Thanks for the style lis Diki...I am with leezone, it would be good to HEAR some songs that you like. I have an AUDYA5 at home tonight so i can have a see if the styles are on it.

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#284676 - 04/06/10 01:59 PM Re: Robert Messier ROCKIN...AUDYA
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3115
so i think this is the approach,

rather than bitch on what styles AUDYA lacks,

let's get some REAL examples,

what songs we need?

let's come up with style types, song names, and ASK Ketron, or any other talented programmers to make them.

the tools are there, the sounds are there, we just need to spend the time... :-)

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