Three years old....Howard's "HAPPENIN"!

(Good find, Donny-good to hear from you).


R.

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[This message has been edited by GlennT (edited 03-29-2010).]

Shame he is being taught that playing along with karaoke tracks is a GOOD thing, though..!

you know, Diki is right. Notice, the kid stops to "catch up". That's not what drummers do.
they set, keep time and drive the music as part of the section.

Still, pretty impressive.

R.

Cmon guys ... Hey, haven't we all played along with recordings when we were learning? And it's not like a recording is gonna catch up with us if there is any fluctuation in timing is it?

In fact I still do that all the time when I am learning cover songs to play with my band. There is absolutely nothing wrong with doing that so I don't understand why you would criticize anyone for doing it. What other option is there when you are playing alone learning to play a band part?????


[This message has been edited by Nigel (edited 03-30-2010).]

My little 3 year old grand-daughter has just been diagnosed as slightly autistic, I wish she could play the drums like that, I would sod the timing for her to be OK.

Granddad Tony


[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 03-29-2010).]

Nigel is right...nothing wrong with playing along with recordings to learn. It's just that, for drummers, particularly, there eventually needs to be a transition to a more active role of setting time, tempo changes, etc.

And, I don't know about Diki, but ANY mention of karaoke, and seeing people play along with tracks, calling it "live" music kind of makes be shiver all over.

JMO,

Russ

[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 03-30-2010).]

Besides backing tracks used in major comercioal productions , for examople on Broadway, Disneyland, TV, & Concerts etc, etc, on stage all the time, I guess playing against arranger styles & smf files are included in that K mix just wondering I see no difference?

Unfortunately, so much of today's LIVE music contains pre-recorded parts. That goes for the home entertainer all the way up to the multi-million dollar concert people.

Key word Cass = multi-million dollars.....and who do you think is paying that out?.....the audiences that LOVE it of course.

You're right. Probably hasn't been an act at the main general interest venue in Lexington
in 10 years that hasn't had part of the performance sequenced in some way.

But, right down the road, there's a slightly smaller venue that hosts jazz, blues and acoustic acts where you never hear prerecorded anything.

It's just not for me. Chas, Rory and I will be seeing Tony Monaco at a club date in Nashville during Summer NAMM....no tracks there. You won't find any on Chas' or Rory's bandstand.....mine, either. Tommy Emmanuel doesn't use them. Lot's of people don't...and won't.

Again, it's not a question of right or wrong as much as it is a question of style, preference and primary focus. I'm a "jazzer" and on the stands I frequent, sequences and tracks of any kind are pretty much non-existent.

Different strokes. More importantly, play whatever and however you're happiest and most fulfilled, (UGH!) tracks and all.(LOL)!

Russ (old school) Lay

Good find Donny. A professionally trained drummer, at least those I've run across in the past 50 years, can keep perfect time. They don't miss a beat, their timing is impeccable. I sincerely believe that playing along with tracks that have perfect timing will ultimately result in a drummer, guitarist, singer, etc.. that will eventually develop those same skills. And, that's a good thing.

Cheers,

Gary

Russ in today's economy being a musician is like any other form of employment......
you do what you have to to survive, support your family, and try to have fun doing it every day....and sometimes you do things that might not be of you total liking ...there are too many ways to make music in today's world...if all we had were jazzers it would be a very boring musical world for sure. Although some of it is enjoyable to some,it is definitly not the norm in today's market. My mind is always open to new styles of music no matter how it is made, I'll always give it a listen because then I can take bits and pieces and add ideas to my own music. There are no rules, just imagination in music.

Have a wonderful Holiday, and say hello to Tony for me!

I think the opportunities to play music the old fashioned way are still out there, should you decide that that is what you really WANT...

Case in point, my guitarist of the last seven years or so relocated to Oregon. We had always done a duo using the G1000, then the G70. Some sequences, some styles, mostly LH bass and the drum section, and some stuff with all the machines turned off. He found out that a neighbor was a songwriter like him (both acoustic guitar), they hung out, wrote some songs, decided to try gigging it. Now they work three or more gigs a week doing NOTHING but original music. No tracks, no electronics, no nothing.

He misses what was our hectic gigging schedule, in the primetime we were doing 10+ a week, but OTOH, he is a FAR more artistically satisfied person now, and with teaching to flesh out the income, still makes enough to get by adequately.

I find it strange that, while guitarists seem to be perfectly at home with playing with no tracks, and can sometimes seem to keep their audiences' attention maybe even BETTER for it, you find few keyboard players any more that are willing (or able) to go that route. Perhaps having all this technology so easily and affordably available has blinded us to the fact that, when people go out to listen to live music, they REALLY want to hear 'live' music... not karaoke.

Back in the day, before karaoke became an American 'thing', you would get quite a response from having all the backing sequenced or styled up, people hadn't seen anything like that in the eighties and early nineties, and people seemed to make the connection that it WAS you still doing all that stuff. But unfortunately, now that karaoke is in the mainstream, people see someone singing or playing to tracks, and the FIRST thing that goes through their mind is 'karaoke' and it's hard to get them to think it any other way.

It might be getting towards the time where we need to take a leaf out of the acoustic guitarists' manual, and reconnect our audiences with the fact that it is US that are playing, not some tracks...

I totally disagree...in today's world of music "TRACKS" in any form are here to stay..like it or not. Look around.
And as far as Karaoke...the very talented musicians who record these backing tracks in the studios are loving their job and enjoying the income.

So explain the popularity of acoustic guitarists, then, Donny...

Tracks are an OPTION, not a necessity.

Yes acoustic guitars have there place just like karaoke.....but theres no need to knock one for over another its all music.

Hey, Donny. Most of my music income comes from film sound tracks, done mostly on work stations, with live instruments added in the conventional multi-track way. Since I had an injury a while back, I've had to use an arranger more for live work to compensate for left hand/arm damage.

That means I'm well aware of the existence/use of tracks of various kinds. For live work, I'm willing to do the "purist" thing and suffer the consequences (less work, less money, limitations on the final product, etc.). But that's probably because I make six figures creating the very tracks I won't use live.

Again, it's different strokes. The market for "jazzers" is small, but there's a loyalty there unmatched in most other musical areas. And, most jazz fans would strongly object to your reference to "boring"; in fact, many would not respond very positively to many of the performances using tracks.

It's a niche market, but one steeped in music history.

And, for some of us (sadly, fewer as time goes by), it's the only way to go.

Be well, and we'll be thinking of you as we enjoy Tony, SANS TRACKS, BORING AS IT WILL BE! (LOL)!

(Just pulling your chain...really glad you're back!).


Russ

[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 03-31-2010).]

Russ,

Keyword = Different Strokes.

Recording and use of Tracks will be here for a long long time, unless the worlds majority of people can pay full bands to play live again as a main stream source of music performance as in the past which I doubt. It's all good, I embrace all music, because it is my main source for inspiration. We all learn from each other in every way when you open your ears & mind and absorb.

have a Happy Easter

d.

Donny, a good, reasoned discussion on what is often a touchy topic from two vastly different views and attitudes.

I appreciate and respect that!


R.