I have considered selling CD's but am wondering if it's really worth it. I thought it might up the tip type income. But, one thing that concerns me is I do a lot of ballroom gigs and duping CD's among members is one thing, but I actually wonder if they would ever end up playing my CD's at a dance instead of me playing live.

I'm thinking that small time CD sales is not going to be a legal problem??

Wondering what thoughts or experiences you have on this.

Scott

I don't think you'd lose business to your CD's at live dances..

Not sure what you mean by "legal problem."

Do you mean selling such a small amount that you'd not acquire a local sales permit or vendor's license?

Do you mean not paying for the rights to record/sell the songs you use through Harry Fox?

Clarify, ok?



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Bill in Dayton

on second thought...

[This message has been edited by cassp (edited 02-04-2010).]

"Legal problems"... I would certainly take it that he means copyright violation. And, yes, you would be violating copyright laws. Getting caught is another thing. I seem to recall that to be legal, you must get a license for $90 per song. Which covers 1000 sales? Now, if you did 10 songs, that would be $900 for licensing alone. Add pressing 1000 CD's and you're in for, say, $2000 total. $2/CD, not including any recording costs. So, if you sell them for $10, sell 200 and you are at break even. I would think it would be a stretch for many entertainers to sell even 200 cd's. It'd take awhile.

As for "selling" them and worrying about sales tax issues, why not say "I give them away but there is my tip jar."

OTOH, if you do these things, you would be without worry.

Or course, I guess you could record only public domain songs and if you write, those written by you and you're good to go. Whether anyone would buy one is another thing.

You can always say that the monies received were for disaster relief. Just make sure the title of your CD is 'Disaster Relief'.

chas

Scott, Don’t spend too much time trying to beat the system, give the CDs away and have your name known. The effort to beat the system is not worth the small dollars that you might make.

Think big dollars!!!!

John C.

Actually, it might be worth looking into trying to find ten public domain songs that you like and can arrange in a unique way. Make a fast one slow, make a slow one fast, etc. These public domain songs are old but some could be made contemporary sounding.

Google found this:
http://www.pdinfo.com/list.php

Sounds good, except... I don't know for sure... but that might not be allowed even if he gives them away. It might be considered "distribution." If you really want to know I can probably find out.

EDIT: It's not legal. If he gives them away for promotion or sells them, it comes under the compulsory license copyright statute. If you manufacture a CD, you cannot sell it or give it away without a license. As I said, it's 9.1 cents per song and I am pretty sure the minimum is 1000 units but something sticks in my mind about 500. Like, maybe they reduced it to 500 minimum. I'll check.

EDIT 2: I think the 500 minimum applies to licenses obtained through the Harry Fox Agency. If otherwise, you can pay monthly.
http://folkhop.com/cover.html

[This message has been edited by SemiLiveMusic (edited 02-04-2010).]

I give mine away; usually to someone having a birthday, or in case someone wants to hire me for another job.

CDs are cheap to make.

This is good advice. You will be suprised how many contemprary songs are reworks of traditional music.

From a legal point of view (in the uk anyway) if the original composition is still covered by copyright it makes no difference wether you give the CD away or sell it, even if its your own arrangement. Also the law is the same for MIDI files as audio tracks.

You can buy an annual license, but most artists that only distribute small numbers pay per track on how many CD's they make ina run. Its not a huge amount of money to do that in the UK, but makes giving them away uneconomical. Most artists here with charge around £10 per CD.

I don't think your CD's would cut into to your ballroom dance jobs. If they wanted a
DJ, they would have already hired one.

I do what Ian does- just give them away. Some folks will give you good tip in exchange.

If you think you can sell lots of them, and you get professional cover art and such you may consider securing copyrights.

This has been my experience. You will sell quite a few at first, then things will slow down. If you do it legally, you won't make any money. I have them just because I get requests for them, but I wouldn't depend on them for any considerable income.

Joe

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Songman55
Joe Ayala

I don't think a sales permit or vendor's license would be needed. Technically, maybe yes, but, I mean really. A few CD's here and there?

I was refering to the copyright issue. Technically, I suppose it's needed. But, again, this would be a small time thing. A few CD's maybe per gig, and make an extra $10 to $20 per CD depending how involved it got.

I think that's probably the answer to that particular question. I hope, haha.

There are some good ideas here. I'll have to give some thought to all this.

Does anyone have any understanding what happens if someone got caught selling cd's of their recordings of non licensed music?

Other than the moral issues, what's the real downside of getting busted? Payment of the proper rights fees plus a penalty? Something beyond that?

I would think if you do get caught, you're pretty screwed. I'm not sure if its worth it. You never know who gets their hands on one of those cd's. Especially if you promote it via flyers or on a website? A competitor learns of it and decides he wants to put a kink in your work and reports you...who knows?

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Bill in Dayton

*In the US, you can secure a mechanical copyright for the entire CD compilation for just $40US.

That does not protect you from royalty fees for covers, it protects your own mechanical compilation rights from being copied against your will.
http://www.copyright.gov/

That's the US copyright website, things have never been easier -- and there is a great FAQ situation there now. Check it out.

As for the payment of royalties for covers on anything on your CD, check out the Harry Fox agency for licensing. You can set up a situation where you only pay small fees according to your CD sales. Of course, you must keep a record of all sales in order to do this. And you should keep records anyway.

**It is best to only use your own home burner (PC, Mac or whatnot) to burn your Master CD and then send that out to a replication facility for duplication. This guarantees that your CD sales will play on the vast majority of players out there. It can also look much more professional, you can even find duplication houses, that, for an extra fee will place your own barcode on the thing. Artwork, jewel case, Redbook spec burning, and now that this has literally become a mom and pop business, you can find duplicators on the web very easily. Typically a one-time setup fee, look for one that will let you make smaller orders after the setup, that works best for me.

My wife sets up the table and sells the CDs while I work. I have had someone come up and want to buy one of every CD on the table. With up to ten different CDs on the table, including the religious and the Christmas CDs, that can be a substantial amount added to the normal gigging fee.

Do everything above board and legal from the betginning and sleep the sleep of the righteous at night. It is not that hard to comply with the laws and regulations.

As for someone playing the CD instead of the live performance, I have yet to hear of such happening. If anything, I've been called to NEW gigs because someone lent someone else one of my self-produced CDs...


--Mac