Korg is already doing this with their PA2XPro...it even has 76 keys...you must have one of these, don't you?

Generally, and this has been my own experience, both in retail and as a clinician, most arranger buyers don't use the synth programming part of the instrument...they just want terrific presets...same goes for the style making features...hardly anyone uses them, unless they are shown how, via a clinic or a tutorial DVD.

The buyers for arrangers, and workstations are different most of the time...not always, but enough to keep manufacturers making both.

Ian

The PA2X is a WS from ten to fifteen years ago, Ian. It doesn't sport ANY of the features that are commonplace in modern WS's. No arpeggiators, no Karma, no audio loop slicing and matching and triggering, no audio multitrack recording, no REAL flexibility in part assignment, no rally contemporary drum sounds...

Trouble is, the way I see it, ONLY an outsider can bring off this mythical hybrid, because the current crop of slackers are already making too much money off having the lines separated. Want BOTH, you GOT to buy both...

Maybe Casio, the outsider on the inside, could pursue this, as it has little to offer either side at the moment, but anyone smaller has a big problem developing the content this would need. After all, for all the apparent difference between the lines, it is still the CONTENT, the sounds AND the styles and arp/loops that come with them that sell them off the shelves. Try selling one without any, you'll quickly see that WS users are as needy for high quality OOTB content as arranger users are...

Yes had a PA2X Pro, lots of trouble with the early model freezing and LEDS blowing so reverted to a yamaha T3, what I am saying is that the Manufacturers build with the drip feed in mind, ie dont make all the sounds SA2 and SA1, we want the purchaser to spend lots more with us. Thats ok, and would be if one did not replace the hardware every couple of years to stay up with the newer features that they release.

I still hold out hope that Ketron can get the Audya right and get the price down to a reasonable level, as it may be an answer to the question, but also as you commented Diki, Casio should come on board with this, change the name to anything else, develop and so on, what a winner, I dont care who makes it, as long as it soundsd great, was durable, has the features, and the upgradability to go with it/

They only drip feed us because we LET them drip feed us. Do what I do, don't buy anything until there really IS groundbreaking differences, and I bet you would see the pace of that innovation accelerate...

Just playing devil's advocate here, but, if everyone did that, sales would drop to zero and then what would be their motivation for sinking tons of money into new, inovative, R&D?

chas

We've always had the choice to buy or not to buy.

There will always be people buying for the first time.

Arrangers are certainly not the only products marketed with incremental differences...cars, phones, computers, food products...the list is very long.

Seems to be a successful marketing strategy.

The market will always do what it HAS to to survive. If the economy brought a final cessation of the madness we have all gone through, spending like crazy and beyond our means, upgrading for every specious reason, constantly clamoring for the new rather than appreciating what we had, IMO that wouldn't be a BAD thing.

We are all fairly convinced that the manufacturers COULD innovate at a faster pace, features only appear on an arranger line LONG after we all see them as obvious software only extensions of what they just released...

If we refused to buy a new arranger until those obvious features get added, and skip the one or two generations where they are just releasing a 'make time' product, I guarantee, rather than go out of business, they WOULD make sure that we REALLY want whatever new product they come out with.

You keep forgetting your power in a market driven economy. You ARE the market. YOU drive sales, not the manufacturers. When demand goes down, manufacturers scramble to find and fulfill that demand, to try to reclaim their market share. If you stop buying rotten tomatoes and say 'I'm not buying them because they are rotten' the farmer finds a way to get them to you fresh...

Consumer revolts have happened in the past, and can happen again if you want to. If you are tired of drip fed incremental updates, it is entirely in YOUR hands to do something about it. Of course, you've got to be prepared to do without tomatoes for a while while the farmer figures out how to get them to the market faster, but you're already stocked up pretty well...

All well and good Diki, and it's nice to see you trying to champion another little cause ...but, I'm afraid it ain't gonna work...too many people like the experience of buying.

I'm sure you aren't the first person to come up with that concept...and probably not the last.

First you have to convince Russ and Chas....and let's not forget Fran.

A nice gesture all the same.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 01-20-2010).]

Me, I prefer the experience of PLAYING

The truth is, strand any of us on a desert island with what we currently have, we would be just fine.

And, it's not a 'little cause', it's a philosophy. Find your inspiration in what YOU do, not some third party supplied technology, and you'll be free of the NEED for constant updates.

Free at last, free at last...

I prefer the experience of playing what I buy...I'm not going to buy something I won't use, or won't enjoy.

I still have the choice...that's freedom.

This "philosophy" of yours is nothing new...in fact, these ideas were probably tossed around when the first caveman started selling stone axes that had a little different shape than the earlier ones.

We all like improvements, incremental or otherwise, and if we decide they are enough to buy a new item, then we've exercised our freedom of choice.

I'm sure I could have done fine keeping my S900, but I just happened to really like the SA Organ sounds on the S910...I liked my PSR-3000, but I liked the SA Sax and Guitar on the S900.

Am I wrong? Of course not.

Are you wrong in keeping your old G-70? Of course not....you're happy with enough of it to get buy.

Thing is, your "philosophy" is not for everyone, as idealistic as you feel it is...you like to be frugal, and that's a wonderful way to be, if it makes you feel content.

But there are just as many of us who feel that life is short, so why not have exactly what we want...now. That's a "philosophy" too.

Your way is okay...but, I kind of like mine more.

Ian