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#272463 - 10/01/09 10:04 AM Re: Rude or stupid sales people.
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Good point about state and sometimes local tax. Here in GA, it's 7%. 7% of a new Audya or (gasp) Wersi , is a lot of moolah. Imagine if we could buy our new cars over the net and bypass taxes. New car dealers would instantly turn into warranty and service facilities. We can blame everyone else, but in the end, it's our willingness to forgo both amenities (like after-sales support, knowledgeable sales staff, etc.) and ethical considerations (like demo'ing and not buying), in pursuit of the best prices. You get what you pay for.

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#272464 - 10/01/09 11:30 AM Re: Rude or stupid sales people.
captain Russ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 7285
Loc: Lexington, Ky, USA
I go way out of my way to support the little guy. I drive across town to go to lunch at places where I know the proprietor and will gladly pay more for his product and service.
Part of this is supporting the people who support me, in terms playing jobs. I don't work for peanuts and they shouldn't have to either.

I support Frank and George and will pay any retailer 10% over an internet price without complaining if they are cordial, knowledgeable and deliver what they promise.

I have ordered merchandise from people I know and not even asked the price, knowing they'll be as fair as they can, or when I've known going in and had discussions with the owner that his price was higher than internet pricing, and I was OK with it. I want the people who work hard for my business to make money.

Everyone's right. Ya gotta pay the price; either in tolerating shoddy service by uninformed clerks, when retailers are fighting internet pricing, or by just paying a little more for the knowledge and service.

R.

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#272465 - 10/01/09 01:31 PM Re: Rude or stupid sales people.
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by DonM:
One thing that hinders local music store sales is that they must charge state sales tax, when most of the internet vendors to do not.
This adds another 8 percent or so that the store can't get around paying, even if they match the internet prices.


I'm sure most folks already know this, but just because you are not charged tax when purchasing from an online retailer, that does not make the purchase 'tax free'. The purchaser is supposed to turn in the appropriate sales tax on the purchase to their state. State sales taxes pay for many things, some of which you may agree with and some of which you may not. But the fact is when buying online from out-of-state, and if you are not submitting the appropriate tax payment to your state, then you are not only hurting a local music store dealer, but you are also hurting the school system, road maintenance, police force, etc.

There was talk a while back about taxing online sales. But putting that into effect would be a nightmare on the accounting departments of the online retailers in order to make sure that right state gets the right amount of money. Then again, what do I care if they have to spend a little more of their profits.

Dave

------------------
Wm. David McMahan
LearnMyKeyboard
JazzItUp Band
The Modulators

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#272466 - 10/01/09 02:31 PM Re: Rude or stupid sales people.
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Interesting. I wasn't aware that there was a legal requirement to report out-of-state purchases for the tax purposes. I know I've never done it. I'd love to see a show of hands of anyone that has. If it's true, I doubt if most people are aware of it (although, when thinking about it, it makes sense). I used to live in the Philly 'burbs near Delaware (which has no state sales tax) and it was common practice to purchase nearly all big-ticket items in Delaware. I don't think anyone thought of it as any kind of criminal activity, but on reflection, I guess it was if you didn't report it (and I'm not aware of anyone that did). In fact, Delaware stores encouraged out-of-state shoppers by advertising their tax-free status. The other tax-free haven was the PX on most military bases, which we all took advantage of. Should that also have been reported? All very interesting. Are the laws vague or are they clear and we are just choosing to ignore them?

chas
_________________________
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#272467 - 10/01/09 03:21 PM Re: Rude or stupid sales people.
--Mac Offline
Member

Registered: 05/16/08
Posts: 307
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia, USA
The large outlets aren't "offered deals" to get those better prices. They simply exploit the law of supply and demand. If they have the cout to order thousands of a single item, they can demand a volume discount. The local retailer cannot do that, must purchase wholesale inventory at a much higher rate at much lower volume.

Timely subject, the local radio stations here are airing an ad for The Guitar Sinner outlets around these parts where they have installed online internet computers instore and the deal is that if the customer can get online and find a lower price for any item in the store, they will beat it.

Me, I'm waiting for the story of the kid that creates a website with a much lowered price for a high priced item, surfs to it instore and manages to convince the sales geeks to sell him something expensive for next to nothing. C'mon, you know its gonna happen...


--Mac
_________________________
"Keep listening. Never become so self-important that you can't listen to other players. Live cleanly....Do right....You can improve as a player by improving as a person. It's a duty we owe to ourselves." --John Coltrane

"You don't know what you like, you like what you know. In order to know what you like, you have to know everything." --Branford Marsalis

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#272468 - 10/01/09 04:40 PM Re: Rude or stupid sales people.
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by --Mac:
The large outlets aren't "offered deals" to get those better prices. They simply exploit the law of supply and demand. If they have the cout to order thousands of a single item, they can demand a volume discount. The local retailer cannot do that, must purchase wholesale inventory at a much higher rate at much lower volume.
Mac


Some manufacturers most certainly offer special deals to there largest clients. While in retail years ago, there were many times, normally a month or so before NAMM that one of these mass retailer would advertise a crazy low price on what we thought was still a current product only to find out later (many times having just ordered some at regular price) that it had been discontinued and the remaining inventory was sold in total at a huge discount to the mass retailer. The independent dealers were not even given the chance to purchase. And I'm sorry to say that over the years there were times that I saw the same thing happen from the manufacturers side while working at several different companies. But that was rare and most of the time we did offer the deal to all dealers and one company actually would do price adjusting of recently purchased but prior to the blowout product so I don't feel too bad.

You are correct that the largest of the catalog/online dealers can sometimes demand a volume discount. One of the mass merchandisers that has been mentioned in this thread actually demands exclusivity of a certain products or brands even telling the manufacturer where that product will be manufactured in order to undercut other stores. That's pretty screwed up if you ask me.

Dave

------------------
Wm. David McMahan
LearnMyKeyboard
JazzItUp Band
The Modulators

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#272469 - 10/01/09 05:02 PM Re: Rude or stupid sales people.
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
If wages had been going up at the rate of inflation, or if the wealthiest 5% of this nation hadn't had the largest transfer of wealth from the middle class to the upper in history, perhaps there wouldn't be the demand for products at the cheapest price possible, and to hell with the consequences. But for us to remain placid in our corporate servitude, we have to convince ourselves SOMEHOW that things are still OK... That we haven't slowly been going backwards.

Gotta have the toys, even if Santa has to be downsized! I mean, who cares about Santa, anyway?
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#272470 - 10/01/09 06:05 PM Re: Rude or stupid sales people.
SemiLiveMusic Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 2204
Loc: Louisiana, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by captain Russ:
Stupid like a fox! My friend who died 5 years ago was the owner of the most successful music store in the city. He was a big band trumpet player. He, his wife and the owners of the other two popular music stores all worked together for 10 years at a large local store. When they started their stores, they all agreed to divide up the business. My friend did not stock and sell horns; he specialized in guitars and PA. His one friend did horns and the other specialized in keyboards. Thing is, he never learned a thing about stringed instruments. He would take an instrument down, run a had across the strings without touching the neck and say....WONDERFUL!, and hand the instrument to the customer. In 40 years, he never learned more, but what a salesman!

I ordered a red Guild hollow body. He called and said the thing was in. When I went to pick it up, it was sunburst. When I called that to his attention, he said, "I don't think so. That's a new Guild red." Then, he took me and the guitar over to a window and turned it several times to let the sunlight bounce off of it. Damn if he didn't convince me that it was some kind of proprietary red.

Two days later, the red one came in. I kept the sunburst one, played it for 40 years, and at his funeral, his son told the tale of his dad, the GREAT SALESMAN and Russ's red guitar!

I took it back to the store, where, for a year, it hung on a hook in the most visible place there, with a sign saying "Russ's famous red guitar".

Dumn salesman or dumn customer? You decide!


Russ (colorblind) Lay

[This message has been edited by captain Russ (edited 09-30-2009).]



Haha, Russ, that is a great story, I tell ya!
_________________________
~ ~ ~
Bill

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#272471 - 10/02/09 07:14 AM Re: Rude or stupid sales people.
--Mac Offline
Member

Registered: 05/16/08
Posts: 307
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia, USA
Quote:
...there were many times, normally a month or so before NAMM that one of these mass retailer would advertise a crazy low price on what we thought was still a current product only to find out later (many times having just ordered some at regular price) that it had been discontinued and the remaining inventory was sold in total at a huge discount to the mass retailer. The independent dealers were not even given the chance to purchase...


Well, Dave, whether it is palatable or not this exanmple is still the law of supply and demand at work. The large outfit made a buy that nobody else could and cornered the remaining inventory. Presumably the buy was large enough to invoke the deep discount quantity price, which was likely influenced by the unit closeout, no doubt, but still indiciative of the way the free market works.

For good or ill, today's marketing concepts have changed, we must be able to adapt to the paradigm shift. It has already happened.


--Mac
_________________________
"Keep listening. Never become so self-important that you can't listen to other players. Live cleanly....Do right....You can improve as a player by improving as a person. It's a duty we owe to ourselves." --John Coltrane

"You don't know what you like, you like what you know. In order to know what you like, you have to know everything." --Branford Marsalis

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#272472 - 10/02/09 07:37 AM Re: Rude or stupid sales people.
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by --Mac:
Presumably the buy was large enough to invoke the deep discount quantity price, which was likely influenced by the unit closeout, no doubt, but still indiciative of the way the free market works. --Mac


You're right. And just to be clear I have nothing against a free market. The alternative of our government having any say in private business is not pleasant. And in defense of... no wait, actually I need to correct something I said earlier. When I brought up manufacturers, I really should have said distributors. Now, in defense of the U.S. distributors of products manufactured outside of our country, they have sales goals they must meet. When the oversees manufacturer springs the news that a model has been discontinued and there are multiple containers of new models on the water, the distributor has to do some fancy footwork to unload the old stock. At some point the easy (only realistic) way out is to make a deal with a dealer who can take the entire lot. The problem I have is when a distributor doesn't at least offer the deal to thier long standing, independent dealers at the same time. A part of the free market means everyone has an equal opportunity to prosper.

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