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#272453 - 09/30/09 01:26 PM Re: Rude or stupid sales people.
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
This, of course, from the guy that actually BOUGHT almost every arranger made, to 'educate' himself...
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#272454 - 09/30/09 03:51 PM Re: Rude or stupid sales people.
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Dicki dont worry what I do with MY money...watch your own wallet. Sorry I'm not perfect in every way like you!

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#272455 - 09/30/09 06:50 PM Re: Rude or stupid sales people.
leeboy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 2580
Loc: Ocala, FL USA
I'm lucky here...I get Internet (or better) price and a knowledgable sales staff with the ability to demo anything they have in stock with no obligation to buy it.I however do not take advantage of this/them, I do my homework and am pretty sure (other than auditioning) that I want it before I ask to play it.

I just call them, tell them what I'm interested in, they say sure come on over we will pull it from stock if it's not out and we can set you up to play it for as long as you need to.

Sweeeeet!
Lee S.
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Lee S.

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#272456 - 09/30/09 11:09 PM Re: Rude or stupid sales people.
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Donny, I really don't care if you give all your money to the Hari Krishna's...

But we might care that you don't even take your own advice, so freely dispensed to others...

BTW, thanks to me being excluded from your 'real deal' country club, I will never have to worry about being confused for 'perfect'. I mean, without your seal of approval, how can I be anything other than a hack..?
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#272457 - 10/01/09 05:47 AM Re: Rude or stupid sales people.
--Mac Offline
Member

Registered: 05/16/08
Posts: 307
Loc: Chesapeake, Virginia, USA
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
While we continue to expect internet direct prices from brick and mortar stores, what right have we to expect knowledgeable and experienced salesmen? Where is the margin to pay them what they are worth...?

Personally, I NEVER go into a music store expecting any pertinent information from a pimply faced slacker doing the job to get guitar strings cheaper than retail

I educate myself online, and simply go to the store to listen to how it SOUNDS as I play it. That is the only information I can't get from the web. I can hear how it sounds when someone else plays it online, but that rarely covers all its' soundset or style library, or how the keys feel, or how quick the OS responds... And I sure don't need some kid to tell me that!

Were we willing to pay a little extra at a brick and mortar store for qualified sales staff, there would be a lot less of these stories. But hey, who needs that when you can save $20 or so...


Diki makes a very good point here.

At the end of the day, it is the demands of the *customers* that shape the retail sales model.

If customer demands are for lowest possible price, and that is the overall situation today, don't expect retail price service.

This phenomenon also affects other areas of mechandising as well, such as warranty service centers (or the lack thereof), knowledgeable product support at point of sale, even can and does affect overall product quality control as cost-cutting manufacturing methods and component purchasing can and often does lower the dependability of consumer and prosumer items.

Then, at the end of the day, the average customer blames everyone and everything for the problem -- except themselves and their own buying practices.

It is what it is.


--Mac
_________________________
"Keep listening. Never become so self-important that you can't listen to other players. Live cleanly....Do right....You can improve as a player by improving as a person. It's a duty we owe to ourselves." --John Coltrane

"You don't know what you like, you like what you know. In order to know what you like, you have to know everything." --Branford Marsalis

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#272458 - 10/01/09 05:50 AM Re: Rude or stupid sales people.
Dnj Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 43703
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Donny, I really don't care if you give all your money to the Hari Krishna's...

But we might care that you don't even take your own advice, so freely dispensed to others...

BTW, thanks to me being excluded from your 'real deal' country club, I will never have to worry about being confused for 'perfect'. I mean, without your seal of approval, how can I be anything other than a hack..?


Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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#272459 - 10/01/09 06:46 AM Re: Rude or stupid sales people.
Anonymous
Unregistered


I've been on all three sides of the fence; sold musical instruments in retail stores for years, worked for several keyboard manufacturers on the wholesale side, and have been a retail customer since I was 14 or so. Back when I started buying keyboards for myself back in the mid-70's, I appreciated the experienced salespeople that worked at the local music stores. The keyboard guys were players, knew the products inside and out and were able and willing to share their knowledge to a young kid. When I got into retail, those positive experiences I had as a kid taught me how important it was to know the product I was selling and gave me a good foundation on how to relate to a customer. And that meant a lot to my customers. Unfortunately those days are all but gone. The customers are as bad as the salespeople. The customer wants the local dealer to match ridiculous prices. The store owners try to match what they can in order to stay in business, but costs have to be cut somewhere and that is typically done by lowering employee pay, which relates to lower employee quality. It is hard to find a truly knowledgeable salesman, and harder still to find one that is willing to take the time to provide training on the products they sell. The internet certainly has had a huge impact on free standing stores, before that there were catalog sales, and before that there were dealers who would advertise outside of their authorized territory. Of course none of that would make a difference if customer's remained loyal to there local dealers. If customers would support their local dealers, those dealers may be able to pay a decent salary to a knowledgeable salesperson. I can't remember how many times I've heard the line "I need to be able to put my hands on an instrument before I buy it", followed by "I bought it online". Meaning they used the local dealer as a showroom for the online dealer. That's just wrong.

What kind of wining would there be if someone started hounding in on your gigs by undercutting your fee. And don't be naive enough to think that your gigs couldn't be taken away. If the price is low enough...

------------------
Wm. David McMahan
LearnMyKeyboard
JazzItUp Band
The Modulators


[This message has been edited by WDMcM (edited 10-01-2009).]

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#272460 - 10/01/09 08:00 AM Re: Rude or stupid sales people.
cgiles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 6703
Loc: Roswell,GA/USA
Quote:
Originally posted by WDMcM:
I can't remember how many times I've heard the line "I need to be able to put my hands on an instrument before I buy it", followed by "I bought it online". Meaning they used the local dealer as a showroom for the online dealer. That's just wrong.



True, but what's a 'starving musician' to do? It's only good sense to want to try something as expensive and complex as an electronic musical instrument before plopping down your dollars. However, given the fact that your run-of-the-mill musician is traditionally one of the most underemployed and underpaid (not to mention, under-appreciated.....especially by club owners) persons in the job market, most have no choice but to make their final purchasing decision based on price.

While the Internet contributes to this (buying online), it also presents unprecedented opportunities to educate one's self on a particular product. Through on-line reviews and dedicated forums (such as Synthzone), as Diki pointed out, there is little reason to require 'knowledgeable staff' to help you with your purchasing decision.

Is it ethical to demo an instrument in a store in which you have no intention of making a purchase? Probably not, but what are your options. The only solution I can think of, top of my head, is if the manufacturers/distributors had a different wholesale price for Internet dealers and brick-and-mortar stores. It would have to be enough of a difference to provide a level playing field for both types of dealers. Just curious, has this subject ever been broached by b&m stores? George? Frank?

So, until society upgrades the position of 'musician' to compete financially with other career choices, musicians will never (with rare exception) make the transition from Walmart to Saks Fifth Ave.

Rude sales people? Hah, we're lucky to have any STORES left.

chas



[This message has been edited by cgiles (edited 10-01-2009).]
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"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." [Nietzsche]

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#272461 - 10/01/09 09:22 AM Re: Rude or stupid sales people.
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by cgiles:
The only solution I can think of, top of my head, is if the manufacturers/distributors had a different wholesale price for Internet dealers and brick-and-mortar stores. It would have to be enough of a difference to provide a level playing field for both types of dealers. Just curious, has this subject ever been broached by b&m stores?


Different price structures already exist between the small independently owned stores and the large chains & online outlets. The problem is it is backwards. What I mean is the large chains get special deals all the time from manufacturers as do some of the online dealers. From the manufacturers viewpoint, a sale to a chain that consists of many units is better than a small order from an independent dealer; fast money in other words, so they give the chain a better price based on a quantity order. And even if the online dealer paid than same for a product as a free standing store, their cost is really less because they have a fraction of the overhead of the free standing store. So this is the fault of the manufacturer. But also the fault of those big dealers. If they would stick to a fair retail price, then that wouldn't put the small dealers in such a bad place; at least they could compete by offering local service, training, etc. even though they aren't making the same profit. But instead the big stores turn around and sell a product for a minimal profit over their actual cost. There are times when these big stores can retail a product for less than what a small dealer actually has to pay for it from the manufacturer and that's crazy. Sorry for going on and on, but it has long been a problem with me when I see big business come into a market and destroy small independently owned stores. And then when I hear complaints similar to some in this thread and others, it just galls me because more times than not, those doing the complaining are contributing to the problem. "That statement is not directed at any one individual, so whoever gets mad about it, well, there you go."

------------------
Wm. David McMahan
LearnMyKeyboard
JazzItUp Band
The Modulators

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#272462 - 10/01/09 09:22 AM Re: Rude or stupid sales people.
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
One thing that hinders local music store sales is that they must charge state sales tax, when most of the internet vendors to do not.
This adds another 8 percent or so that the store can't get around paying, even if they match the internet prices.
I would gladly pay a little more (and I have many times) to purchase locally, but it's too late. No local stores here stock arrangers other than really low end product.
And I must say there is simply no market for high-end arrangers here. A store would have to hire someone knowledgeable enough to create a market, by doing demos, expos and such. They the interested people would probably at least comparison shop via the internet anyway.
DonM
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DonM

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