This is nothing new to most of you ,but I was reminded of this on my last band gig when a sax and clarinet player came up to me on break and commented on how authentic my clarinet sounded, on my solo. I have read several times ,that our ears become accustomed to whatever sound we are playing and loss track of the very sound we are trying to emulate.

Thinking back to the early eighties ,FM couldn't come close to today's sampled sounds ,and it is more difficult to choose or edit a sound for realism. In my case ,it was the G70 I was playing. I had favored the KN7000 for band because I thought it was more realistic. However ,when I edited my sounds in the G70, to my ears ,I realized the basic sound was closer to the real thing ,hence the comments.

My point is that players should not necessarily grow so accustomed to their sounds to fool your ears to what's real.

The problem is not so much the sounds on your keyboard, it's the keys themselves only having 2 elements that control the sound.

Set velocity per note pressed and mono variable after touch per note pressed is by no means even remotely close to what is needed to reproduce the expressiveness of a real-world instrument.

For that we have devices like the WX-5 and EWI which do a fantastic job and when used with the right sound source, they can be just as expressive as the real-instrument themselves.

Connect a WX-5 to a PC running WIVI and you have nothing short of digital perfection. Heck, even WIVI running off a breath controller connected to a keyboard would blow your mind.

Regards
James

Much of the realism you hear from an arranger keyboard comes from the sounds that were tweaked, tuned and created by the manufacturer. The next, and probably most important part of the equation, however, is the player. I know several performers who use mid range and TOTL keyboards and sound systems who couldn't produce realistic sounds from an arranger if their lives depended upon it. I also know performers such as Don Mason, Jerry Burns, Julio (in California) and several others that can work the keyboard's touch sensitivity, expression pedal and pitch bend wheel with such effectiveness that if you close your eyes you could NOT tell whether they were playing the real instrument or an arranger keyboard.

Sure wish I had those magic fingers,

Gary

Bernie I hear you BUT ........it all doesn't mean anything if the player doesn't articulate these sounds when playing close enough to the real instrument. And believe me I have heard horrendous imitators in my day.Playing an arranger is a serious multitasking art form all unto itself. This is why many just play "JUST" piano ontop of styles...vs many different sounds IMO.

There's a LOT you can do with just those basic voice controls, certainly enough to rival wind controllers (although maybe not exceed them) if you are doing wind emulation.

First thing is, DON'T use the LFO vibrato. Even with some subtle programming (mod depth to LFO speed is one of my favorites), it quickly becomes obvious it isn't real.

Second thing is, you have to be anal about your legato fingering. Nothing gives away a keyboard performance more than note overlap. SA does a great job of helping this out. But for all of us that don't have SA, or you are trying to use a sound that SA doesn't cover, you STILL have to work really hard to keep your fingering clean.

My secret weapon in the battle for the best emulation is the ribbon controller. I have a Triton, a Kurzweil, and an old KX5 controller/keytar (my favorite) all with pitch strips. Use any of these, and you have a MUCH better chance of a realistic performance. For starters, forget mod wheel vibrato. Place your finger on the center spot of the ribbon and rock it around like a cello or guitar string, and presto! Natural, non periodic vibrato...

Next is the ability to jump pitch rather than bending to it. Trills, hammer-ons, hammer-offs, all of these are things impossible with a wheel. But the strip makes these a snap. Plus, because of the nature of the strip, hitting EXACTLY the perfect intonation of the jump note is impossible, it makes it more realistic, as no wind instrument (or any acoustic instrument that you finger, to be honest) ever hits the note perfectly.

Finally, you have the option of playing notes without actually hitting them on the keyboard... Once again, for those of us without SA1/2 voices, making the difference between detached and legato notes is a challenge, and monophonic mode generally makes the sounds too electronic, but the pitch strip allows you to hit notes up and down from where you are without retriggering the sample, allowing a whole phrase, or at least, sections of it to be played without moving your played note (and once again with the imprecision of intonation that real instruments show).

All of which adds inflection and realism to the line. If you have a keyboard with a touch strip on it, try hooking it in to your arranger (at home, not sure whether this is going to be a popular solution for the live giggers!) and see if you can't coax a bit more realism from your sounds...

Diki,
Yep, the ribbon on the Kurz is great...but I don't think any of the arrangers have a ribbon. So..which independent MIDI ribbon controller can be used??

Lee S.

Lots of valuable information, Diki. I've never owned a keyboard with a strip, but I could envision where it would be highly beneficial.

Gary

Here's another factor. Unless we play (at a high level) the instrument we're trying to emulate, let's say sax, we don't think (musically) like a sax player. Without that, even with the techniques mentioned above, we won't fool too many people. As far as wind controller like the WX5, if I knew sax or flute or clarinet fingering well enough to make it effective, I'd just play the real instrument. The real thing would certainly look better on a gig. Just another opinion, but it is the reason I've never used an arranger on a gig. The other reason has to do with rhythm. I don't believe that there's any such thing as a 'pocket' with an arranger or a drum machine. Although you don't always get it, even with a group you play with a lot, on those nights when it does come together, it is pure food for the soul. I believe that when the whole group is 'in the pocket', it's not the drummer, or the bass player, or any single member. It's that rare super-interaction that happens (who knows why?) - and can only happen, between players who are on the same page at the heartbeat level. If you haven't experienced it, you won't know what I'm talking about, and if you only play arranger keyboards in OMB settings, you never will. As always, JMO.

chas

Bernie,
You are right on with we have forgotten what the original sounds were like. Here’s a poor but example:
The pizza in New York is great, my favorite. After living in Florida and eating the pizza they make her --- for the last fifteen years I felt that they went from being fair to darn good. They finally made good pizza. I went back to New York a short while ago – reality hit me, I had forgotten what the real thing was.

John C.

All good advice, particularly if the audience can’t see you or it’s a recording you have made. (Sorts out the men from the boys)

However if the audience can see you then know matter how good the articulation performance, they will always see and hear a musician playing a keyboard, not a Sax. (Except for the musician the eyes always overrule all the other senses)

Keep the tips coming, as this is what one aspect of the forum should be about.

Bill

In all fairness, if they see a keyboard player, but hear a drummer, a bass player, a guitarist or two, some strings, a bunch of synths, three harmony parts and a partridge in a pear tree, what's wrong with playing a sax solo?

You already lost them at 'Hello', anyway, if you are shooting for realism!

A lot can be accomplished on the keys, but quite simply you can't come close to what a Wind Controller can do on a keyboard without having to sequence tons of controller data separately.

Thrilling notes, tonguing, lip pressure, bite, breath control, live attack, volume, expression, the sheer natural element to playing a wind controller. All these things are recorded in real-time without the player having to even give them a second thought. That's what puts the wind controller in a class of it's own.



To compare to a wind controller you would have to have access to the modulation values Depth and Speed in real time. Even at that your faking the wrong effect because vibrato effects volume more than anything else on a real instrument. Think of who you modulate the sound on the real flute. It's a variation in breath which controls volume firstly. Pitch only alters because of note stability.



So basically your performance will sound like each and every note was tongued. Nobody plays like that.

The right way to do this would be to edit your sound and actually use the Legato mode of the sound engine. Look at your Triton for example for the OSC's. You have Ploy, Mono and Legato modes you can assign to your sounds.



Just look at how your sounds on your Triton are constructed and you will see that the Z+ and Z- directions on your joystick and be programmed to do this far better and far more realistically.

You can apply speed and depth of pitch to control vibrato to the Z+ direction and then flip things right around and use the actual LFO running things like Trills on the Z- axis. Use the different waveforum shapes you have on your Triton.

For example the Guitar waveshape actually produces a totally realistic Trumpet Trill that you can control in both speed and depth in real-time.

I don't care how fast your finger is, there's no way you can pull off the effects anyway accurately each time by using the ribbon compared to actually doing the programming and setting up your sounds right in the first place. Just like your not using the Legato mode.

A trill effect is somthing totally different to a vibrto. The shape is not even close.



Not true of any KORG keyboard as I've just mentioned above.

I also bet every workstation can do this too. Not sure about arrangers though (except KORG), but then again I don't know of any arrange with a ribbon so you won't be doing any of this on one anyway.

Regards
James

My favorite instrument sounds on the PSR-S900 (and Tyros3) are the SA Sax, and the SA Concert Guitar.

They respond exceptionally well to legato playing, and the Sax even switches from poly to mono, automatically...playing legato also removes the attack on subsequent notes, adding to realism.

Am I going to fool anyone, especially someone who plays guitar or sax?

Nope, probably not, but 90% of the listeners really don't care...they think it sounds great...and I enjoy having those extra colors to add variety.

Ian

Finally something that makes sense.....
spot on Ian!!

How would you fatten up a trumpet solo ,eg. Sections are relatively easy ,but solo sounds good ,but thin. Do you double up and slightly detune one ?

BTW ,thanks to everyone. I had forgotten all of the elements that comprise a good emulation.

Bernie,

I found that on the S900, I can layer two SA trumpets (must be the same sound, and same octave), and it gives me a terrifically wicked mute trumpet...it might work on other brands.

The biggest mistake I hear when someone tries to emulate a wind instrument, is that they don't allow the virtual player to breathe.

That detail, and the unrealistic re-attacking of every note, are always a giveaway...Yamaha's Super Articulation takes care of the latter very well, but you really have to think about the former while you're playing...unless you have a wind player that is able to do "circular breathing".

Ian

Bernie,

You can also try adding a soft layer of synthetic strings, which does an excellent job with both the sax and trumpets.

Cheers,

Gary

HI GUYS!

This is a marvelous thread! Although I do not know what all the "Letter words" represent, I do sorta-kinda get the gist of what you are saying.

DIKI.... Your detailed descriptions are priceless...as are the comments added by the rest of the players....

Frequently when I play (daily) my Technics KN7000 I tweak the sounds, especially the alto sax, clarinet, and piano...till I get just the sound that is correct...to my ear. These 3 instruments are my fave's...

The 7K has so many avenues that permit tweaking of an instrument...much there I do not understand, so I just try different things, listen and make whatever changes seem appropriate till I get what I think I want...until next time....

Putting two of any instrument in the lead and second position does give a fuller richer sound that reaches much deeper to a soulful level... I can also change and tweak all the instruments in the accompaning rhythms....or mute them completely.... I find frequently that "less is more"...

Additionally, when the opportunity presents itself, I ask other players how my sounds work for them.... that too is very helpful. I would love to have one of you as my neighbor for at least long enough to have the opportunity to share some magical music together!

Please keep this sort of thread going...it is so much better than all the bantering and otherwise "pissing contests" you boys get into all too frequently.....

Happy playing!

Elizabeth....

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Elizabeth, drive your RV to Shreveport for the January Arranger Jam. You'll have lots of neighbors while you're here!
DonM

James, I'm not sure you quite got the point of my post. Sure, a wind controller trumps all, but we are keyboard players here, not sax players or flautists or clarinetists, or even great recorder players...

So, we HAVE to use the technique we already have.

I don't understand why you still think that vibrato is better left to LFO's. A finger vibrato on a guitar, or cello, or any other instrument that uses finger vibrato is FAR more nuanced and realistic that an LFO derived vibrato, simply because you can change depth and speed and shape and even phase (go down first, or go up first?) all by how you rock your finger. A pitch strip allows you to do this. Start deep and heavy, transition to light and fast in the middle of the note, and speed it up as you get to the end. What LFO is ever going to give you this (and different for each note)?

I'm sorry you don't think a finger is fast enough to get all the inflection and trill and vibrato accuracy you might want, but I'm afraid I have to disagree. Somehow, mysteriously, guitar players get ALL the speed and accuracy they want with bends, trills (AND 'thrills' ), hammer -ons and offs, and most importantly, vibrato. To the point where you can tell them apart JUST from listening to how they vibrato ONE note.

If they can do that using exactly the same technique on a fingerboard as we can use on a pitch strip (I have to confess, the KX-5 is by far the easiest to do this on, due to the angle of it in relation to your fingers is just like a guitar or bass), there's NO reason why you can't get this yourself.

As to the 'tonguing' part of playing, that's where using the strip to 'play' notes rather than finger them on the keyboard comes in. You strike a note at the beginning of a phrase, then put your finger on the strip at the point of the new note. Presto! No new attack transient, but a new, legato note. Is it as good as SA or Giga 'triggers'? In some ways no, in some ways, it's better. Use SA or key triggers, and the legato note is PERFECTLY in tune. Do it with the strip, and it is likely to be NOT... Whereupon, you either bend it closer to perfect (like a horn actually does) or leave it where it is because it is MORE perfectly in tune than equal temperment can do (and you still get vibrato or pitch instability at the new point, just like a real instrument).

The whole POINT of using the strip is to get away from the rigid equal temperment that playing on the keyboard forces you into. No horn player, cellist, guitarist or just about ANY acoustic musician plays so perfectly in tune, In fact, the little out of tune things are what give it character and scream 'real!' to your ears.

Finally, the thing about using a strip, as opposed to x and y axes of a joystick, or mod wheels and pitch wheels, is that it is an extension of something you already know is a REAL musical technique. We've been using fingers on a fretboard for thousands of years to get emotional expression out of simple instruments. Learning which way to push a joystick is an intellectual approach, rather than a visceral organic way of achieving the same end.

So, yes, a wind controller gives possibly the most direct control over many parameters at the same time. BUT... it only works for very well trained wind players. But for the rest of us, I find that picking up these basic techniques is FAR easier and natural to do on a strip. You are STILL using your conventional keyboard technique for most of the notes, simply using your LH to add considerably more inflection and nuance to the note than you can get with a joystick or wheels...

And, if your controller has a breath controller input (like my Kurzweil and the KX-5), you can add a lot of the timbre and volume elements that a wind controller do....

The advantage of Yamaha's Super Articulation, and to an even greater extent, SA2, is that you don't need to use your left hand to give the voice it's expressive qualities....although, you can, if you wish, and thus add even more nuances.

I don't believe there are any arrangers with a pitch strip...I used one on an old Yamaha CS-80 we refurbished, used in the studio for a few years, and then sold...it was très cool....also had one on a Moog Polymoog, and a Moog Multimoog.

There used to be a stand alone pitch strip available quite some time ago...made by Kurzweil called the Expression Mate. You plugged it in a midi port, and it attached to the panel....probably hard to find one of those today.




[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 09-29-2009).]

Hi Diki.

I don't want to argue with you on this so I will say my bit and leave it at that unless you actually want to talk about sound design for optimised Wind Instrument performances on keyboards.

I do understand everything you said but the problem I have with it is that 90% of what you said does not apply to wind instruments at all. Your treating wind instruments with a technique that is only for stringed instruments.

I also think you are trying to back-peddle here now by now introducing the only instruments your technique allies. For anyone trying to emulate a guitar or a cello your technique is bang on and you covered the topic extremely well.

But since the subject was about wind instruments and that you could rival a wind controller with just the keys and your technique, then your technique is flawed.

Nobody tongues each note and so your simulated legato does not work at all. Vibrato is a variation of breath blowing into the instrument which directly effects the tone and volume long before it effects the actual pitch. Your view is that it only effects pitch. A trill is a flutter between two notes that can change in both speed and intensity. You have no control over intensity at all and all you can control is the pitch. In addition to that the shape of your modulation would be wrong if all your doing is wiggling your finger on the Ribbon. You would have to actually tap it off centre to get somewhat close to the effect you really need, but that's a backwards approach when you can use an LFO waveshaping to modulate it for you in the correct manner.

So if you can accept that your technique only applies to stringed instruments and you would fancy a good heavy technical chat about what could be done to get the most from wind instrument sounds, then lets have a bash.

Regards
James

Sure, NON LFO vibrato is more realistic IF and it is a big IF the sound engineer does not screw it up by having a LARGE variance in vibrato depth and/or speed NOTE to NOTE.
Unfortunately many of the sounds using sampled vibrato suffer from this. My T2 and now my PA2 have many sounds that are ruined by this.

It is not that noticable if you play fast music only...but if you play beautiful ballads, musical theatre etc it will ruin the performance. Anyone else just hate this problem?

The samples have to be done right. And at the cost of the TOTL arrangers they should be...but, sadly are not.

Small variance note to note is very nice and realistic.

So, LFO vibrato eliminates this issue, even though you loose some of the natural nuances.

Lee S.

I appreciate what you are saying, James, but it is an imperfect world. While a wind controller is going to get the best out of a wind sound, sadly, it's not an option for the keyboardist, so what is a boy to do?

I am not saying that the techniques I describe will make a sax sound indistinguishable from the real thing. But they WILL add an entirely new level of realism compared to simply using a bender.

And I'm STILL not sure you get the legato detached thing. The idea is you hit AND HOLD the key note, then use the strip to 'jump' to the new note. The attack transient is NOT played again, only the sustain or legato part of the sample. Same thing with trills. Hit and hold the note (there's the tonguing), then use the strip to tap very quickly (or slowly) at any point you want. Main thing is, you are NEVER going to be able to precisely hit the same point over and over, and this is going to emulate a real player (who can't do that either ).

And no, you are not going to be able to legato whole phrases, but with a combination of a sound that the attack transient (the tonguing) is emphasized when hit hard, so lower velocity notes are not so spitty and tongued, and using the strip to play notes around the played one to give true legato, you can certainly add another layer of realism. Is it perfect? Of course not. Neither is a wind controller. Is it better than a bend wheel? You bet!

A trill may be able to vary in depth and intensity, but on most arrangers, there isn't any way to do a trill at all, unless you retask the LFO from vibrato. Whereupon, you no longer have that as an option. But a strip, while it won't make the PERFECT trill, makes a FAR better one than most arrangers can (or any keyboard without a strip). Yes, there's always compromise, but there is less of one when you DO have a strip. Main thing is, this ONE gestural controller does bends, trills, legato notes (non-attacked notes, if you want to be more precise), hammer ons and offs, vibrato, intonation adjustment and many other things. From the ONE controller, with no fancy voice programming. For the PLAYER, this is invaluable, as you are not constantly darting between one place and another to do these many different tasks.

For me, at least, the goal isn't to be perfect. The goal is simply to be as good as you can... I've been using the KX-5 for donkey's years for this exact purpose, and currently, live, into quite an average module (little Roland MG-S64) that isn't anywhere near state of the art sampling, But I continually get real sax players come up to me and tell me that's the closest they ever heard anyone get to nailing what a sax does (on a keyboard)... If it's good enough for THEM, it's good enough for me.

Would I like something better? Sure I would. But I haven't found it yet in anything that is so tactile and intuitive to play. SA would be great, but so far, nothing's out in a small module that tempts me (MotifXS seems to implement SA a bit differently to the Tyros).

Guess I'll have to break out the KX-5 and make Donny ecstatic and record a few examples (on the other hand, just like the last thing I did, Donny will probably pretend I didn't do it and keep on like a stuck record ). Will it beat a wind controller? Probably not. But I'm not a wind player...! For controlling ROMPLERS (rather than synth engines optimized for wind control), it's the best thing I've found so far... It'll certainly beat anything WITHOUT a ribbon

Nobody is saying you have to buy a wind controller.

You have a technique which works for Stringed instruments already. So all you need is one that suites wind instruments.

This is really easy stuff once up place all your needs out on a table and then look at what you have to work with.



I get what your saying but it's just not realistic. You cannot perform a melody in Legato by playing one notes and sliding your finger all around the ribbon to produce all the other pitches you need.

Why on earth even try when you HAVE an actual Legato mode on your keyboard that will allow you to play naturally with no need to even touch the ribbon.



The failure you mentioned to be able to hit the same spot on the ribbon each time is exactly what will make it sound fake because a trill is a flutter between two specific notes. There is no in-between here or slightly over. The shape of the waveform your generating is also different from what a trill actually looks like when you apply proper modulation.

Again, why also evev try do it that way when your Triton has an entire feature designed to do the job for you exactly like a real player will. You simply use the LFO waveform shapes to modulate the sound.

This again allows you to play totally naturally in Legato mode at the same time as doing trills, all without the Ribbon.



Ok, so you see you can't play legato your way. So use the Legato mode and the problem is solved. Same goes for the JoyStick. It can do Vibrato in the Z+ direction and Trills in the Z- Direction. If you even over program the values into the Joystick you have detailed verable control over the amounts of effect applies.



No arranger has a Ribbon that I know of and I've already make my points as to why it's not the way to do it anyway. So if we are to move away from workstations and talk arranger, you really can't do it until you define what make of keyboard you are going to try reproduce the effect on.

If it's a KORG, then no problem. It has the same LFO waveshape functions as your Triton, legato modes and everything else. If it's a Yamaha, then we need to look at the LFO and what can be done with it. Same goes for every other make of keyboard.

Each have their straightens and weaknesses, but the concept and technique required is still the same.



Which is a good attitude to have, but why settle for less when there is a much better way to do it that allows you to play entirely naturally at the same time.



Which is why I'm taking the time to reply. There is a better way and tapping the ribbon like a mad man while also having to play a certain way is not it.

Cheers
James

I am a little confused... when you say Legato Mode, are you referring to going monophonic? Because that's as unrealistic with wind patches as the pitch strip, IMO. Only SA (and DMC) allows totally different samples for legato as detached, AFAIK...

When you are dealing with older technology (like the Roland's, for instance ), there simply is NO 'legato' mode. There's either monophonic, or polyphonic. The thing about using the strip to perform partial phrases (I DID say you couldn't do an entire line like that, but even if it is one note or two, that's still double or triple what you can do without one ) is that, you are not still locked into either mode. Play a lead, then play a section answer. All on the same sound, with the same technique...

I have to confess, I am FAR more into finding a single gestural way to do as much as possible to a note than in finding multiple complex ways to program it in. As I said, earlier, the strip allows you to do a large selection of articulations, with NO programming, and all at the same time. You task your LFO to do trills, now it can't do regular vibrato. Maybe on far more complex synth engines like the Triton, but the large percentage of decent arrangers don't have these parameters available to reprogram (nor do I have the time!).

Even if they are half-assed, and not as good as you can program with a full fledged synth, having such a large variety of inflections available by the simple (I certainly don't find it in the least difficult to get what I want out of the line as I go along) application of ONE controller strikes me as an elegant way to gain a LOT more control over a sound with the least amount of programming. Ask any guitarist if he would prefer to do bending with one controller and vibrato with another, and trills with another again, and hammer-ons and offs with yet ANOTHER, and he will laugh at you!

He can do it all with the one technique. So can we...

I think I get where you are coming from, certainly a recording perspective, where the goal is to be as accurate as is humanly possible, and the devil with how complicated. I tend to come more from the live perspective (because, if I'm looking for a good sax lead on a track, I'll hire a good sax PLAYER!), and in live, sheer accuracy isn't anywhere near as importance as sheer playability. Having all those types of performance gestures available instantly under ONE easy to use controller is worth the lack of ultimate authenticity.

But I can see we solve the same problem in two different ways, and that at least is a GOOD thing! For me, every step we take beyond simple 'hit the note, hit the next note, hit the next note' is a step forward to releasing the keyboard from its' shackles. Guitarists still lord it over us in the ability to add a degree of expression that is instantly recognizable from player to player, even with the same guitar and amp. Anything that allows me to play something in a way that no-one else possibly COULD is a good thing, in my book. The minute you start programming the inflections in, rather than physically PLAYING them in, you reduce the amount of YOU that each performance brings. With a strip, there simply is no way for me to play a line identically each time. With LFO programming, it's hard NOT to do it identically... (unless you can put some sort of random offset to the values).

I am a trombone player (was my major), so I think I'm pretty attuned to what is the essence of why horns are so difficult to emulate. And primarily, the aleatoric aspects, the sheer randomness of it all is what separates the played from the programmed. With an embouchure, all the note stability (or lack thereof!) is an unconscious part of your performance. Your ear hears what is wrong (or right) and adjusts your lip and breathing to compensate or enhance, but all at a pretty subconscious level. You don't THINK 'I've got to do a trill here, so I've got to adjust my lip just SO, and change my lung pressure just SO" (and so on) - you just DO IT.

For me, at least, getting that degree of control over a keyboard sound requires that whatever you use to control it be as natural and unconscious as your lip control on a real horn. Having to think 'up for vibrato, down for trill, left and right for pitch bend, Knob 1 for trill rate, Switch1 for mono/poly' and so forth takes FAR too much away from the sheer connectedness of the sound to your hand. It's cerebral rather than visceral.

Is it as accurate as you can do with programming? I really doubt it. But do I feel more intimately connected to the control of the sound? You bet I do

BTW, I am once again enjoying a VERY interesting discussion with you. I hope you don't take it as simple sheer argumentativeness, because I value what you have to say, and am learning a lot from it. I can tell that you spend a LOT of time thinking about all this, and that is so refreshing, here! I would certainly be very interested in hearing some naked wind playing with the programming techniques you have been talking about...

It's always a pleasure discussing things with you.

I have previously stated that I don't use my library of sampled sounds on my Receptor due to my inability to achieve non robotic modulation with the Kontakt ll engine. How would your K-5 handle these ? Conversely ,I have an SD2 module which contains many modulated instruments. I guess the question is merely academic ,since it is discontinued.

Not trying to sound like a smart-alack, but why would you play a solo using a clarinet sound when there was an actual clarinet player on the gig.

------------------
Wm. David McMahan
LearnMyKeyboard
JazzItUp Band
The Modulators

Dave
Our band is 20 members during the season(Florida) ,but dwindles to varying degrees othertimes. It is up to me to fill in wherever needed. I may solo one verse and play section backup the other three.

That makes sense. I've done the same thing when one of our horn players couldn't make a gig.

What part of Florida are you in? The band I am in, The Modulators , will be playing at 'Tween Waters Island Resort on Captiva Island for the annual Halloween party on Saturday, October 31st and then the following week at the Crow's Nest.

If anyone is close enough to visit, please do. It is always fun to meet forum members in person.

Best Regards,

Dave

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Wm. David McMahan
LearnMyKeyboard
JazzItUp Band
The Modulators

Dave
I am only about 30 miles away ,but will be out of town during your Halloween bash. I went to your website and U-Tube. You have a great group there. Will try to catch you another time.
Bernie