Call me crazy, but DonM was correct. The Podium 8s in stereo sound MUCH better than the Bose mono (to me).

I did the test in my studio with my PA800 keyboard. The Bose was first with its terrific clarity and great bass. I thought it was the winner and was ready to pack it in the car.

But I decided to check the Podium stereo and it CAME ALIVE. The first thing I did was acoustic piano and it blew me away through the Podiums. I then played the same songs through both and listened closely. Many of the fine details I work hard for to use in arrangements were totally lost in the Bose mix (pads, chimes, pans, etc). The mono piano and guitars were not as good and seemed to lose their high register.

ONLY FACTORY DIRECT put up with my nonsense in this whole deal and took care of me. I have to say that I was difficult and they were not and showed their true colors. Thank you OFD.

Now off to a gig, where the Bose sits at home and both 8s go out. They are just too nice sounding to not use, even if close together.

Maybe I'll keep the Bose and go Bose stereo. I won't keep it to use mono - it is just not me and I knew it

Jim,

I wasn't satisfied with the Bose Compact in mono...and, when I love what I hear, I always play better...hence the two Compacts.

They aren't as loud as the two L1's I just sold, but they still fill a room like no other system, and my keyboards sound great...the stereo effects, like chorus and rotary, as well as delay, sound like they should.

Your PA-800 would sound awesome through two Compacts...ya gotta try it, before you dismiss it.

Ian

I hear ya Ian. I can imagine the Compacts in stereo being the ticket. Decisions ahead and I do want to check out Roland's BA-330 I have on order. My jobs are almost all small and 2 Bose would be so uneccesary.

In all fairness, you are hearing something tweaked for stereo through a mono system when you play through the Compact.

Other than the true stereo pianos (don't really know about the PA800, but the Yamaha's have terrible phase issues going to mono), you aren't really having THAT much phase issues, but you WILL get volume and mix perception differences.

If you tweak your setups to sound their best through a mono rig, a lot of the bad you hear will mostly go away, at least as far as losing pads and effects. Yes, you lose the stereo, but you'll actually be able to HEAR the pad, EQ up the bells, etc.

No, IMO it won't ever sound as good through the mono system, but you CAN make it sound better than simply using your stereo performances untouched on a mono rig.

YES, as good as the Podiums sound, two Bosi are much better. Of course they SHOULD be at the price.
Is BOSI plural for Bose?
DonM

But there is the rub...

Two Compacts, $2000. Two L1's, $4000+ (and you STILL need a mixer for reverb)

Two Podium 10"'s, about $400. (in fact, two Podium powered 15"'s, about $500).

Are the Bose between four and TEN times better?

There's a whole MOTL arranger in the price difference between the 15"'s and a stereo Compact rig..!

Don't get me wrong, I quite like the Bose systems. But I always think of them as the Wersi of PA systems. There is NO WAY they are good value for money. Just good if you can afford them (and haven't got anything else you could use the money for)

I wouldn't say the Bose are ten times better...but, they achieve what a conventional speaker system doesn't do...fill the room.

Now, if you don't want/need this feature or your gig does not warrant room filling sound...sometimes the people want to sit away from the music, for instance, then conventional speakers are the ticket...I have a pair of Yamaha MS60S powered monitors for jobs like those.

But filling the room with a nice balanced sound, with a very wide stereo sweet spot, if you go with two, seems to be the Bose's forte....not many other systems can do it quite so good.

Considering most players will keep a sound system through the course of several arranger changes, it is a good investment, in my opinion.

Diki - (2) Podium 10s - $259 delivered

In anticipation of my Compact arrival all this week, I thought, "what the hey, I might as well just use (1) mono Podium and get used to it". But when I took the stereo Podium route again this afternoon, the difference was INCREDIBLE. For my gigs, I could never justify stereo Bose and won't use just one, so back it goes.

I look forward to getting my BA-330 in November, so stayed tuned for more mixed up reviews from me

In the meantime, I'm totally content with the 802s and will next try the Mackie SRM150 next week

So, Jim, will you be using two Podium's (stereo) for your gigs; at least the jobs that justify using them?

Yes, seems all I play anymore are very small venues. Unless I just play super soft, I can't believe the power you all use in your gigs

I do believe and hope the Roland BA-330 does it.
http://www.musiciansbuy.com/roland-ba330.html?gclid=CO7Rtf-CiJ0CFR9N5Qodj0wBbw#Warranty

One true stereo cabinet with (supposedly) adequate power to handle 80 (enough for me).

[This message has been edited by zuki (edited 09-25-2009).]

I dont see how one small cabnet with small speakers SO CLOSE TOGETHER can provide a good stereo image w/ seperation at all.....lets not forget the Motion amp debacle...I bought one and quickly sould it.

What didn't you like about the Motion amp? I'm thinking this is more a digital PA rather than a boxy sounding instrument amp.

I don't care if the speakers are close, as long as they have a true stereo field to hear all the instruments. If it comes in one box, all the better. In fact I think I'd have a better chance of everyone being in the stereo field.

Anyway, maybe I'm dreaming, but will definitely try it out when released in November.

I wouldn't overlook the Traynor K4. It's stereo, powerful and, if required, you can hang two podiums 802's on each side, which is how I use it. It is a little heavy but makes up for that in sound quality and the versatility of having stereo in a single cabinet. IOW, it's a very nice keyboard amp if it fits your mission.

chas

Chas, I thought the Traynor K4 worked great with keyboards, like Stage Piano, and organ, like Nord C1 or Hammond XK1...it is more of a stage amp for someone playing in a combo.

I thought it was less than great on an arranger...two powered cabinets are far better for stereo.JMO.

You're probably right, Ian, 'cause that's the only way I use it. However, I have used it in my sudio (which is 16' x 24' without much acoustical treatment) with SonicCell drums (played from usb drive) and piano played from lower manual of C1, bass from C1 with Pk7a pedals, and it sounded pretty good to me (with and without the Podiums). Of course I couldn't really crank them up in that small of a space but I have at the club (with just the C1) and it really kicks butt.

chas

I'd say the K4 would work well in a small(er) space, and you were fairly close to it...I do know that it sounded excellent on the XK-1 and Nord C1...the Leslie sim was very well taken care of, and it had a nice spacious effect.

I tried an S900 and a Tyros3 through it, and again, it sounded pretty good up close, but the further away you got, the stereo spread seemed to get lost, and the highs just didn't get thrown that far...I'd say the speakers' focal point is rather short, probably meant as a keyboard monitor for some one on stage using a stereo digital piano or organ.

Traynor make very durable stuff...I had a K-100 for awhile, and it weighed about as much as the K4 (and awkward to carry), and was mono, but it was bulletproof...and very loud...it had a horn and a 15"...used it for about 10 years, and never had a problem.

The best sound I've ever had so far, was the two Bose L1's in stereo...that was awesome, although very expensive...still, you only buy a good PA system once, unlike keyboards and arrangers.

The Hammond XK-1 sounded pretty wild through it too, and although the Nord C1 wasn't available at the time to try, I'm sure it would have sounded just as good...actually, I like the Nord's Leslie sim better...they really have it nailed. Not sure if the pedal tones would be as robust through the Bose...you really need a 15" speaker for those, as on a real Leslie 147.

To me, arrangers just sound better through two cabinets.

These things are primarily designed as stage keyboard monitors (it's why they have outs ). The PA is what provides the stereo separation (if they have a stereo PA).

While there are a lot of OMB's using these kinds of things as main speakers (combo amps), it's not what they are designed for. Sonicly, most of them are designed to cut through a busy and loud (think REAL drummer, and despair!) stage mix, not to sound flat and transparent like a PA should.

I have yet to hear the Traynors, but every other stage combo I have ever played sucks compared to a decent self powered PA speaker IF you are using it as a PA...

BTW, the separation on a REAL Leslie is only a couple of feet, tops.. Doesn't stop it from filling a room...

So Zuki.....did you end up sending back the Bose compact in lieu of using two Podiums in stereo? or?...

Yep, the Bose is back and using the 8s in stereo for now. I'm awaiting the Roland product in November.

Not quite the wallet you have Donny to spring for Bosi

Strikes me that, for what you could sell the Podium's for (not everyone knows how cheap they are! Find someone not too savvy and you will probably get at least 100% of what you payed! ) and how much you will save by NOT buying the battery powered $600 Roland (which I can't see as being anywhere CLOSE to a Compact), you aren't really very far from having enough for that second Compact...

Sorry to hear that Zuki....the Bose C is an awesome unit it it's own right Mono or two in Stereo & worth every penny. Good luck .

Diki, I know, as I kicked that around. But a major objective is to keep the load light. I want as little equip as possible to lug in and out multiple times per day. If you'd see the average crowds I have, you'd be taking in one speaker too I don't cater to beach babes with their dresses blowing up from the thump

I'm really hoping the Roland will be good. If not, back to drawing board or keep with the 8s until their death

I was kind of thinking that a pair of the Podium's (seeing as how you already have them) and a small powered sub (with the sub sucking out the lows before it hits your Podium's) might give you all the extra 'oomph' you are likely to need for the kind of venues you might get. I am definitely skeptical at how much pure bottom the 10" Podium's can put out when would up. Too many reports of overheating and the like for me to trust them at higher volumes (like you might get at the odd wedding, etc.).

Perhaps something like the Logitech powered sub would be sufficient to just give a BIT more bottom without stressing the Podium's power amps and 10" speakers?

There is no need for an extra Powered sub for most Nursing home gigs IMO who want to carry more gear and hook up more wires for a quick one hour show?



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 09-29-2009).]

We're on the same page. I have the Podium 8s on eBay. I have this http://www.mackie.com/products/srm150/ coming. I have thought about 2 of these and a Mackie sub for less price than a BosE. Just take in the 2 150s and keep the sub for larger stuff.

I think two 8's regardless of the stereo benefit don't effectively handle the output of the keyboards most of us are using. Jim's mentioned the stereo element but what about low end and overall power/clarity of signal? He's playing a great board - but how is the low end getting processed accurately?

I tried 2 yamaha 10's several years ago and I couldn't get away from them fast enough. I moved to 15's then the L1. The difference from the 10's to the 15's was pretty substantial, I thought...

I think you'd be better served Jim by moving up to at least a ten or a twelve if the make it. The Roland product, I don't think will be the answer...

------------------
Bill in Dayton

Hi Bill,

I just cannot understand the need for large speakers in the gigs I play, unless I'm missing something on the overall balance the larger stuff will produce. Perhaps I'm not hearing myself as my audience is and think the 8s are bottom enough for the venue. I am not a big bass fan and really tone it down when I arrange stuff. I had the Mackie 450s for several months and digressed to the small stuff with no compromise in customer satisfaction (as far as I know, that is).

These days, I'm now seeking more quality and clarity than anything else. That's why I'm trying the Mackie approach again and also the Roland digital stereo thingy.....

We should get together and listen to each other. I'd love to hear you with your Bose - a treat it would be.

I think that zuki hits the nail on the head when he says to look at the average crowd he gets. Thing is, you get a wedding call, or a show, or an outside gig, suddenly what works for a few elderly at a NH is stressed to the breaking point at even just a little bit louder

But I'm getting all confused now. First the Bose is gone, now the Podium's, and he's getting a pair of SRM150's (I have a pair of those too, but only for a nearfield stage monitor) and a sub.

So many Podium reviewers have commented on the good deep bass from the Podium 10's (within limits) and I can assure you, there is NO deep bass on an SRM150 at all. They roll off very steeply at 150Hz (and haven't all THAT much from about 200Hz down, really). Ideal for a monitor, but useless as a PA. You would need to use a sub with them all the time to get to the Podium's sound, I would imagine.

And the smallest Mackie sub is VERY heavy and WAY more than you need to balance a pair of hotspots (and a fair chunk of money). I honestly don't think you have thought this through, zuki.

If the Podium's are not blowing up all the time, I would have stuck with them, and just got a small sub for the occasional higher volume gig. But that's just me... all 'IMO' as usual

Well, I think quality isn't really related to size, per se. Clarity, as I understand it is certainly effected by the size of the speaker and the frequencies of whatever you're running through it. An 8" speaker doesn't process a full spectrum of sounds as well as a 10" does. The 2 extra inches enhances the sound output. A 12" and a 15" do it even better. By better I mean easier, its less of a strain on the speaker, which produces a clearer sound.

The other thing that really hasn't been touched on in this discussion very much is individual styles and presentations. I'm going to take a guess that I'm significantly louder than you are. Louder isn't necessarily better, its just what works for me. I've asked AD's since I got the Bose last Xmas if I should turn down and they tell me no. In fact, they seem to really like it and my overall sound.

Those Mackies are pretty good monitors. Two of them and a sub may do the trick for you. There's more than one way to skin this cat and in the end, whatever you're pleased with is the way to go.

Yes, for the umpteenth time for both of us, we really should get together. My schedule's always up...let me know what's good for you.

How's your website coming along?

Cheers,

------------------
Bill in Dayton

I don't think you can think things through until you try stuff. It goes back to what you perceive as the best sound for YOU. I like the Podium 8s (better than the 10s), but I really want quality now. I think the 8s are a bit hollow, else I'd have kept them. Maybe the 150s (I basically traded even for - remember my blown 10s) and a small Mackie sub. The Roland may surprise me and some others' here too.

As much as Bose gets its praise, I could never play with that PA board as a mono unit and never would spring for 2.

Hell, I even considered Cass' cubes he's now selling..............

I'm confused but having fun and so is my audience.

$200 or so is all the experimenting has cost me.

Eventually I'll get it. I sure as hell am keeping the PA800 I got that one right, but not on the 1st try.

Diki-

Jim and I play dozens of the same venues. Mostly nursing homes/retirement communities. Where I think we differ (Jim, correct me if I'm wrong, please) is that I do 6-8 or more gigs a month in Animal Clubs, Banquet Halls, Outside, etc.

The traditional PA of two 15's up on poles through a powered box mixer worked great. The L1 works great as well while being substantially lighter and easier to work with for me. (Repeat-for me)

Like I said, there are different ways to go when picking out a PA. Fact of the matter is Jim works more than I do (I'll do 450 gigs this year) so clearly he's putting out a very good quality product, case closed.

For me, I never wanted to have a nursing home sound and a Club sound and a big hall sound, etc. I wanted to have the right sound that I hear in my head. I've paid the price for carrying in 15's and stuff all these years, but its also come back to me ten fold in terms of business.

This probably isn't an issue for Jim as I think he really concentrates on the nursing homes. Jim-Are you playing any clubs or dances at all?

------------------
Bill in Dayton

[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 09-29-2009).]

Well, I sure wish you had told us about your intent before you went ahead and bought the Mackie's. We could have perhaps let you know what we thought before the money changed hands.

The thing is, have you looked at how big the SMALLEST Mackie sub is? http://www.mackie.com/products/speakers/index.html#portableactive

It is HUGE, expensive, VERY heavy and WAY more than you are ever going to need to balance a pair of SRM150's...

I am sorry, but I just don't see it.

zuki ... you're changing PA systems faster than I'm changing socks !!! ... ...

t.

Yeh, and they all stink too

Zuki just a question why aren't you doing more Weddings, Anniversaries, birthdays, and Dinner dances etc, etc,...& other big venues besides nursing homes in your area?.....Also if it's not you who is playing at these affairs as a one man band act?

I know it's going to be emotionally hard to back pedal, but I honestly think you are going to be unsatisfied until you have a pair of Compacts. Deep bass, plenty of volume, and stereo, but still MUCH lighter than anything else comparable, sonically.

The smallest Mackie sub weighs about 80 lbs. Two entire Compacts don't weigh that! You want small, light, powerful AND good sounding? Not much else out there that fills ALL those categories...

But it's going to cost you... sadly, I don't think you are going to be satisfied until you have it, though. You honestly should have got a second Compact on the 45 day return plan while you had the first, then you would have had a baseline to compare the rest with.

Thing is, you took off a nice clean pair of socks (OK, just the one sock ) to try out all these stinky pairs. When all you needed to do was find the match to the sock you were already happy with...