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#271883 - 09/23/09 10:45 PM AUDYA HD - Quick Access
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
no i don't own one, not yet

i just want a quick way to access/swap the AUDYA's hard drive in case i have a HD failure during gig

they should have a screw off cover as does many Rolands (ie. XP-80, G-70) where you remove it with 4 screws, and voila, there it is,

remove and replace with your backup
but that would make too much sense wouldn't it?

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#271884 - 09/23/09 10:48 PM Re: AUDYA HD - Quick Access
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
make a new bottom cover for AUDYA with this opening and sell at a reasonable price and it will sell... and make all future AUDYA's with new bottom.

or you could pull a "Frankie" on it :-)

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#271885 - 09/24/09 12:07 AM Re: AUDYA HD - Quick Access
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
As I said on the other thread... For those contemplating an arranger (or any keyboard) that is dead in the water if the HD fails, first and foremost, backup is mandatory.

But I would also suggest you start to harass your manufacturer to consider a mirrored array of two HD's in the case. If you are not using SSHD's (and those are pretty expensive for ones big enough to handle live loops and sampler files), you are beating on your arranger (OK, playing it hard ) while the HD spins (and sometimes reads), probably not a recipe for long term reliability...

But an array (or at least, two separate drives that you could mirror manually) would be inexpensive (HD's cost pennies, these days ) and provide security and peace of mind for the professional player...
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#271886 - 09/24/09 05:56 AM Re: AUDYA HD - Quick Access
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
we just need quick acces

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#271887 - 09/24/09 06:30 AM Re: AUDYA HD - Quick Access
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
As I said on the other thread... For those contemplating an arranger (or any keyboard) that is dead in the water if the HD fails, first and foremost, backup is mandatory.

But I would also suggest you start to harass your manufacturer to consider a mirrored array of two HD's in the case. If you are not using SSHD's (and those are pretty expensive for ones big enough to handle live loops and sampler files), you are beating on your arranger (OK, playing it hard ) while the HD spins (and sometimes reads), probably not a recipe for long term reliability...

But an array (or at least, two separate drives that you could mirror manually) would be inexpensive (HD's cost pennies, these days ) and provide security and peace of mind for the professional player...


Diki,

If you buy a PC it comes with a recovery disk, so should Audya, it doesn't so like you say make a full backup.
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#271888 - 09/24/09 09:03 AM Re: AUDYA HD - Quick Access
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
I know it's "in" to pick on the Audya, but I don't know of any arrangers that have an easy-to-swap hard drive.
I've had four Ketrons, a Roland or two and several Yamahas and never had a HD failure.
Sure it can happen, but it's always important to have a backup of everything essential to get you through at least a night.
DonM
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#271889 - 09/24/09 09:16 AM Re: AUDYA HD - Quick Access
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
Don,

what other arranger, besides AUDYA actually has a HD? or a HD which has parts of styles that stream off of it (drums, bass, guitar)?

i know my G-70 does not have a HD,
but it DOES have a nice cover where i can EASILY access my expansion card,

i mean ROLAND was smart and thought "maybe the customer will want or need to quickly access/swap the card.

i just removed cover once to install expansion, only once, but it's EASY

i did not have to open up keyboard

same with AUDYA, it should be easy to swap out HD, it's not an expansion card, but you may need to access the HD MORE times than you would an expansion card...

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#271890 - 09/24/09 09:24 AM Re: AUDYA HD - Quick Access
DonM Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/25/99
Posts: 16735
Loc: Benton, LA, USA
The X1, the SD1, SD5 and the Midjay plus all the Yamaha Tyros line had hard drives.
I agree it would be nice to be able to swap quickly, but I'm just saying I've never had one fail. Hope I never do!
I'll have my E50 and/or laptop on hand if it ever happens on a job. Not ideal of course, but you must have backup of some sort.
DonM
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#271891 - 09/24/09 09:34 AM Re: AUDYA HD - Quick Access
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Quote:
Originally posted by DonM:
The X1, the SD1, SD5 and the Midjay plus all the Yamaha Tyros line had hard drives.
I agree it would be nice to be able to swap quickly, but I'm just saying I've never had one fail. Hope I never do!
I'll have my E50 and/or laptop on hand if it ever happens on a job. Not ideal of course, but you must have backup of some sort.
DonM


DonM,

You are probably right, they are not likely to fail, but if a keyboard is moved around regularly then they are at more risk than your desktop PC and perhaps more than your laptop, but HDDs are far more reliable than they used to be, I think the Auyda HDD may be a pig to get out quickly and surely not on a gig, if it goes down you will have to start singing. Frank added a drive internally, it could be added to the outside but I think it’ s a risk you may just need to take not to have one at all, but a backup in a caddy to change HDD if needed would only cost you £10.00 for the caddy and £20.00 for the HDD and you have a spare drive and all your files backed up.
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#271892 - 09/24/09 01:04 PM Re: AUDYA HD - Quick Access
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
I guess I'd have to say in this particular case, the omission of USB2 from the interface choices is a bad decision. I know I'm not a big fan of its' inclusion on everything (seldom being necessary) but in this case, a USB2 interface would allow easy hook up of an external HD in case of the primary HD fails for any reason.

I think you are getting your wires a little crossed, leezone. That expansion on the underside of the G/E series is for a ROM expansion, nothing to do with the HD at all. In all fairness, if the SSHD fails on a Roland, you are just as hosed as if it fails on a Ketron. Probably more so, given how hard these are to find... Mind you, a SSHD is VERY unlikely to fail from playing stresses

But I still think that, as inexpensive as it would be to add, a secondary HD inside the Audya's case would be a better solution than hauling around a spare HD and having to hot swap on the gig.
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#271893 - 09/24/09 02:08 PM Re: AUDYA HD - Quick Access
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
Diki,

i know it's for ROM expansion,

but my point is that it's easy to access

not easy to access the HD,
and i'd probably want to swap out hardrive more often than ROM, perhaps to back it up, as i don't have 6 hrs to wait around, and no i don't want to do it overnight

if AUDYA is "like a computer" then make a small door for it so i can get to it quickly as i can on most any laptop


[This message has been edited by leezone (edited 09-24-2009).]

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#271894 - 09/24/09 02:21 PM Re: AUDYA HD - Quick Access
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
But it ISN'T 'like a computer'...

PARTS of it are like a computer, and parts of it aren't. You want an ALL computer arranger, there's the MS. No?

Didn't think so!

The thing is, accept that the Audya is only a SLIGHTLY more computer like arranger than most of the rest, but it is still a LONG way from being basically a desktop computer in a keyboard case. Ketron don't advertise it as such. Expecting it to be something that is patently is NOT is simply a way to frustrate yourself unnecessarily. Accept it the way it is, and make some music!

If anything good can come from this type of wishful thinking, it will have to be way down the line. The Audya's hardware is what it is. It still seems to do a pretty decent job of being an arranger (in the way that 99% of us actually use one!). As long as we keep an eye out for unreliability issues (and this is just the one case) and owners realize that a backup regimen MUST be used (it would be interesting to see if the same people that don't back up their arrangers are the same people that don't back up their computers, either ), I don't see how any of this is a deal breaker for potential Ketron users.

Me, I am still FAR more concerned about musical issues (timing, lack of full chord choice for audio loops) than any hardware issue that CAN be worked around. Let's wait to hear about a LOT more HD problems from Audya owners before we write this off, eh?
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#271895 - 09/24/09 08:46 PM Re: AUDYA HD - Quick Access
Gunnar Jonny Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/01
Posts: 4333
Loc: Norway
When HD first came into the Arrangers, it was to store styles, midi, userdata etc.
You could run the machine without any HD, as it was a high priced option/addon to
load/save rapidly and rise storage space dramaticly compared to floppydiscs.
As long as the HD contain data that is nessesary to boot up and run the keyboard,
a quick and easy recovery option is just as mandatory as UPS.

GJ
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#271896 - 09/24/09 09:51 PM Re: AUDYA HD - Quick Access
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Quote:
Originally posted by leezone:
Diki,

i know it's for ROM expansion,

but my point is that it's easy to access

not easy to access the HD,
and i'd probably want to swap out hardrive more often than ROM, perhaps to back it up, as i don't have 6 hrs to wait around, and no i don't want to do it overnight

if AUDYA is "like a computer" then make a small door for it so i can get to it quickly as i can on most any laptop


[This message has been edited by leezone (edited 09-24-2009).]


This is the best idea yet, it makes sense to just make a hatch with 4 screws, ribbon cable and power to remove the HD from the underside of the Audya like the T2, 3 mins and it's swapped out. Do hope Ketron read this site a lot of good ideas from people who have to use these KBs. You need to remember that apart from the sliders and he wheels the HDD is the only part that's moving all the time about 10000 rpm and the little shearch arm is going like a line dancing fiddlers elbow!

Tony



[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 09-24-2009).]
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#271897 - 09/24/09 11:04 PM Re: AUDYA HD - Quick Access
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
Tony,

AUDYA is way behind (hardware wise)
as is evident with USB 1.1,
only 64MB RAM
Old Looking Screen & UI

what makes you think AUDYA uses or can handle a 10,000 RPM drive?

i'd guess 5,400 RPM

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#271898 - 09/24/09 11:15 PM Re: AUDYA HD - Quick Access
Tony Hughes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 3944
Quote:
Originally posted by leezone:
Tony,

AUDYA is way behind (hardware wise)
as is evident with USB 1.1,
only 64MB RAM
Old Looking Screen & UI

what makes you think AUDYA uses or can handle a 10,000 RPM drive?

i'd guess 5,400 RPM


I agree with you Leezone I have been saying this all along, they are about 5 yrs behind with technology and that's along time in digital terms good job style don't age tah fast, and yes 5.4 Ok but do Ketron look and listen, what do you think!
_________________________
Tyros 4/Pair SR 350/ PC with a i8 intel chip, XENYX 802, Ford Focus 2 litre/Tascam DR07/Brother printer/Designjet 500/ our Doris/5 Grandchildren/ white boxers short Kymart shipped over and Typhoo Tea Earl Grey

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#271899 - 09/24/09 11:46 PM Re: AUDYA HD - Quick Access
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
All these Audya stories are childish and funny with time, like trying to awaken a dead monster.
My grandma is 80 years old, no matter how much make up you put on her she is still 80 years old.
Go on with your lives, its worth it.
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2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.

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#271900 - 09/25/09 07:34 AM Re: AUDYA HD - Quick Access
leezone Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/08
Posts: 3131
Nedim,

what's older, your grandmother or the AUDYA's hardware?

[This message has been edited by leezone (edited 09-25-2009).]

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#271901 - 09/25/09 08:17 AM Re: AUDYA HD - Quick Access
Nedim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 1144
Loc: Staten Island, NYC
Figure it out the same...month two difference...
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Cubase 8.5 Pro. Windows 7 X64. ASUS SaberTooth X99. Intel I7 5820K. ASUS GTX 960 Strix OC 2GB. 4x8 GB G.SKILL.
2 850 PRO 256GB SSDs. 1 850 EVO 1TB SSD. Acustica: Nebula Server 3 Ultimate, Murano, Magenta 3, Navy, Titanium.

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#271902 - 09/25/09 12:25 PM Re: AUDYA HD - Quick Access
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Bitch, bitch, bitch...

You all want the Audya to be something it isn't. You all want technology on it that no other arranger has. You all want the future NOW...

And not one of you has a clue about how expensive adding all you want would make things. Look, for the last time... FORGET about thinking it is a computer with a keyboard attached. It isn't. It is pretty much like any other arranger out there, a combination of proprietary chips (to run the sounds, effects and I/O) and a RISC computer to run the OS. Trouble with all this is, it costs a LOT more for a custom chip to do, say, USB2 than it costs for off the shelf computer motherboards and PCIe cards to provide USB2. Computer hardware always runs YEARS ahead of dedicated RISC chips. Just tooling for the die is millions. You can't expect this from a TINY keyboard manufacturer.

Look, if it is SO easy, why haven't any of YOU done it yet?

In the meantime, and despite all it's technological stone-agery, it SOUNDS better than any other arranger out there. And, unless you are simply a techno-geek with no interest in the TASK that the machine is designed for (it SURE sounds like you are all more interested in the peripheral technology than how well it performs its' TASK), surely that should be your PRIMARY concern..?

My objections to the Audya are all MUSICAL ones. So WHAT if it has USB1? Shouldn't we still be up in arms about the fact that the loops can't play a sus4 or a dim or an aug, rather than how long it takes to back up? I'll tell you one thing. My audience neither knows, nor cares what kind of USB is on board. BUT... they know good sound when they hear it!
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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