First sorry for my english..i will try to tell you what happened..i was transfering a midifile from a usb stick to audya..suddenly audya stopped to responze and i had to turn of and turn on..when the audya switched on, some text and shapes on the screen were missing..I tried to play the rhythms but rhythms did not work..i tried to connect to pc via usb.it conected.. but I saw only two files with meaningless characters in audya's hd..and i tried to reload os but audya updater said to me "audya not found"..
i tried to hd format on audya..after format the folders was came back but all folders was empty even system folders!!!and screen was still corrupted...i tried one more time
os update.. worked..but after os update (2.0c) screen was same (no sliders and some missing characters)and still no styles...i reloaded Ketron styles from ketron web site, now some midi styles came back but without live gitars.
now it can play midifiles some midi styles but no audio styles and other audio files and no system files on hd..please help...

[This message has been edited by necdetdoni (edited 09-22-2009).]

When you did the reset, where there options or different ways to reset? Partial, Custom, Full?

I no nothing about your keyboard, but hopefully someone else will step up...

Good luck...

------------------
Bill in Dayton

One thing that many of us forget to do is treat any arranger or WS that basically is a computer EXACTLY like you would treat a computer...

In other words, use a UPS, if not on the gig, at least 100% of the time at home. Power fluctuations, spikes, RF noise on the AC line, a whole host of ground issues, all of these can make data transfer occasionally problematic. A UPS can make all the difference here, and give you peace of mind when needing to do work during thunderstorms, or other dodgy weather.

The other thing is to be as anal about backing up your arranger's HD at least as often as you would back up any mission critical stuff (financial records, work projects, your mp3 collection ) in your computer.

The more arrangers move towards being little more than computers with keyboards attached, the more they suffer from exactly the same problems that plague computers. The fix for them is regular, scheduled backup, and additional backup after any intensive editing or creative session...

Personally, given the generally non-technical nature of much of the arranger market, I think it is time for redundant backup HD's in arrangers. They cost little, and an automatic 'mirror' utility would be easy to implement. Then, if a HD fries, you switch to the backup HD (which is automatically a clone of the main) and keep on keeping on! If they want to make us accept using barely disguised computers to make music, they ought to at least acknowledge how non-computer savvy most of their customers are, and provide an easy way (like Apple's Time Machine) for the non-technical player to remain adequately backed up AT ALL TIMES...

audya was connected a ups when i was working on

[This message has been edited by necdetdoni (edited 09-22-2009).]

OK...

Generally, if a computer crashes DURING a data write, things can often go bad, no matter what. Only good backup procedure can get you out of trouble quickly.

But glad to see you using a UPS. I honestly think, with them so affordable, we ALL ought to use them. It won't stop EVERYTHING (as we can see here), but it will surely stop something!

Do you have any more info on WHY the Audya locked up? Had you formatted the stick on a PC, or on the Audya? Did the stick conform to Ketron's specs for them? Had you tested the SMF's previously, to assure that they weren't corrupted or malware?

[This message has been edited by necdetdoni (edited 09-22-2009).]

Is there a utility in the Ketron to 'clone' the entire drive?

That is probably what I would do, once you get back and up on your feet again. Certainly looks like it hosed a fair amount of the data on the drive, and if I were you, if it is possible to run an external HD repair utility on the drive itself, I'd double check to make sure that the FAT and formatting hasn't been corrupted BEFORE I started to load back in all the factory data...

I have had some experience with that same issue, it has been addressed.

Basically the files on the hard drive are still there but have either been fragramented or re-named.

I have cloned my drive just for that reason, just like a back-up for a pc.

You can email me or call, and I can explain further

------------------
www.AudioworksCT.com

It has been addressed in an OS update, or it only has been 'addressed' with awareness?

Does OS3 fix the bug?

but Diki and gang,

even if we have a clone HD (backup) for lets say the AUDYA
what to do if the HD crashes at a gig?
open up the thing on stage?
and tell the audience to hold for 1/2 hr...

not everyone is brave like Frankie to cut a whole at bottom of keyboard to access the HD

theres gotta be a better way to quickly get back up and running,

we should be able to use an external drive just in case, but unfortunately it's USB 1.1

would be AWESOME if we could plug in let's say a 16GB flash drive (stick) to USB in case of HD failure

this BACKUP plan, needs to be addressed in my opinion,
HD's spin constantly which makes it susceptible to crashing more than flash, SSD, etc.

AUDYA needs SSD

[This message has been edited by leezone (edited 09-22-2009).]

Frank is right the only way to get over this is to have a backup drive or you need to format the existing drive and reload everything back on and the hidden files. You have all got to understand that Audya is not a full blow PC it does not have windows XP or any other proper OS to pick up the pieces if it all goes wrong, or turn it off while it is crunching numbers, but to connect it to a UPS when you are moving files is plain not on, what the hell have we bought here, this is the year of our Lord 2009, Now America is not known in the World has been any good at manufacturing electronics believe me you are not, you are tosh, but the Italians what are they good at , fast cars and clothes. If you buy a PC it will be old hat in 12 months some of the technology in Audya is already 4 year old, Fat32 was used on the guidance system on the Mary Rose.

Have a nice day


[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 09-22-2009).]

Sorry Guys, the Mary Rose was Henry the 8th Flagship and it sunk in about 18OO and something - perhaps I should have said the technology used on the Audya was used on the Moon Landing, USA was good at electronics then. None of this is help our friend necdetdoni but it's sure putting things into perspective

[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 09-22-2009).]

Curse you Dikki, tomorrow I will buy a damned UPS. Haven't needed one in 30 years, but it is stupid to not have one. I really hate it when you're right.

DonM

DonM,

Don't forget a carrying bag for the UPS when you go on gigs, BTW are your power supplies so bad in the USA that they drop out. Also when on a gig if the power goes off you won't be playing nothing to nobody.
A big lead acid truck battery with a Frankie look alike second hard drive and a spare organist just in case you have a heart attack. "Only a joke not getting at anyone only Audya nuts"

Regards

The thing is, you rarely do much data transfer at a gig. You do it right, all you have is the HD being read, not written to. That's usually not a problem if you have a brown out, spike, whatever... But WRITING to a disk can have much more catastrophic consequences if interrupted.

Unless you use a long pre-load for a sampler, I wouldn't go as far as to say a UPS should be de rigeur on live gigs. But it doesn't HURT to have one. I've got one for a couple of gigs where I'll end up on a long cord sharing power with the PA, or I'm outside with a good chance of local thunder

But home, it's 100% UPS. That's where I do all my backups, registration creation and data transfer. Living in Florida means accepting that, at any time, the power can go out, flicker, whatever. When you live in the lightning capitol of the States, having a UPS is pretty much mandatory..!

I'm happy the money put aside to buy Audya still are (safe?) in the bankaccount.

GJ

Most of mine are APC, but it's not that critical, IMO. They all perform pretty well at this task.

When performing a WRITE operation to disk, any disruptance in power/connection could cause one to loose some files or have incomplete files in the HD. When AUDYA is then re-booted, it tries to read these 'currupt' files and hence gives you a currupt display/interpretation of what was read.

FORMATTING the HD is like formatting that of a computer. You loose everything and having no backup means you do not have access to the data that was once on the HD. The styles you downloaded from the website are the bonus styles but not the original AUDIO STYLES from AUDYA. The audio guitars are assigned to each style once loaded but if you are missing the styles and audio drums and bass (that reside in the HD), then you'll need to get these first, otherwise, all you can do with your AUDYA (as it now stands) is play midi styles, midifiles, wave and mp3 songs!!

Thanks,

AJ

When that happens is it best to contact the dealer on a repair and a software replacement from the hard drive?



[This message has been edited by mc (edited 09-23-2009).]

ok..i contacted to Ketron Turkey and they will send to me a new HD (fully preloaded).. but it will come from Italy and it takes over 1 week..now i can play midi files,mp3 and waves..and also (some!!)midi sytles..but i ques there are some bad sectors on HD couse i can see some style names (from bonus styles)on the screen but when i push to button nothing happens...but some styles work corectly...i have to wait

When the WRITE operation was disrupted, deleting the currupt files (usually those with strange characters) would have solved the problem.

Fomatting the HD made it worst because now you not only got rid of the unwanted files but also the needed ones (Styles, AUDIO drums, bass ... etc).

AJ

I glad to hear the Ketron Turkey will stand behind their product. that's great news, good luck and for the next time maybe it's better to wait and seek advise before venturing off on a self repair. I also learned the hard way on a Korg ix300. I kicked the power cord and while is was performing a update. It ended up turning off and when it turned on again, I tried redoing the update, I burned the mother board. I have to say though, I send it to Korg USA and they were able to repair it free of charge after owning it for a few years.

AJ.. there was only two files on hd with strange characters..one of them over 10gb and other was over 1 gb.

The trouble with interrupting a write operation is, you can often corrupt the FAT (File allocation table), which is how the the computer knows where everything is, and how big it is, etc..

Once that is out of whack, you may find the computer writing to disk sectors that already have data on them, adding to the problem (but maybe not immediately, you never know when). One never knows, so best to be safe than sorry. If it happens again, and THIS time no doubt you will have a backup ( ), I would recommend a complete reformat of the drive, to get the FAT back on track.... THEN reload the data.

Writing to a disk that has already become damaged is just too risky until it is reformatted... (IMO)

Look you guys, what is your problem about the Audya hard drive and file transfer and backing up and adding files, it’s simple. The Audya is brain-dead like most who bought one, by brain-dead I mean it does not have a full OS like a PC, no window 98,200 or XP nothing, no way of repair damage files, no way of file recovery, no SAFE MODE, no nothing, brain-dead, from the power lead on in.

When you get your Audya working properly and I say when and your happy with it if ever , then make a full backup of everything including all the hidden files, put them on a caddy or ext HD, from time to time if you feel like it make backups, especially if you make a lot of registrations etc.
If it all goes wrong on you one day and it probably will, you will be able to reformat the drive and then load on all the files you saved, switch on the God Dam thing and it will work.
Please don’t write anymore more about this it’s getting boring, this is so simple it’s untrue, and BTW if this don’t work then bin it or do like Unionguy did send it back or kick it down the stairs and claim on the home insurance, when the assessor comes round he will never believe you paid $ 5000 dollars for it so keep the receipt.

Buying a UPS if you power supply is so iffy I suppose is a bonus but hell all of the UK would be laughing if we did it our last power down was in the blitz in 1945, you need to stop installing air-conditioning its overloading your infrastructure.

Go on reply if you want I have nothing better to do, wonder if they sell UPSssss in Turkey, it’s hot there too!

BTW FAT32 was in vogue during Watergate, note what Frank did with his Audya he added another HD, you don't need to go to that lenght, doing the way I said will do and you are not hacking into your precious KB with hammers and saws


[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 09-23-2009).]

Tony,

we are all adults here
we are here to help one another
i know you don't like the AUDYA because of your past experiences with it.

i don't own an AUDYA, not yet at least
but i do find your post rather offending and disrespectful...

"The Audya is brain-dead like most who bought one"

Leezone in the UK we have survived two world wars and it has made our sense of humor rather different that yours I presume you are USA I haven’t look at you profile, when we says some is brain-dead it’s not the way your perceive it so don’t take it literally or personal, here in the UK it’s just a figure of speech.
If you where to call me brain-dead for buying an Audya I would accept it fully, I must be so to buy the Audya, that out the way.
I am a Building Services Engineer with 45 years experience in the business, a chartered Engineer and I am good at what I do programming Building Management System, I am 66 next, I work with PCs every day of my life and I have given this advice for you all to have, that’s what this site is all about.
Just try reading in between the lines, I do when I read threads from the USA and others who try hard to type English I hope I can help those also who really struggle.

Having said all this Ketron is the ones we should all be having a go at, In the UK we tell it has it is warts and all, we no longer take any flack from anyone and companies that produce poor quality goods in the UK don’t last 10minutes.
I truly at 66 feel rather embarrassed that I have bought an Audya from a UK dealer who I have bought KB off before, he does not know where to put is face when I see him, he is has embarrassed has I am and that’s how we are over this side the pond. If you see this any differently please tell me if we should lay off Ketron , if we sent you cars form the UK like this what would you do?

Regards Tony.

Please read between the lines , Ron took my advice and sent his back in about a week he will be laughing about it and watching us wrangle with our Audya, anyway Leezone you haven’t got one you don’t know the pain and I would not wish it upon you that why I write when I don’t need to.


[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 09-23-2009).]

[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 09-23-2009).]

Necdetdoni

Can you tell me has this thread helped you in any way, have you been able to get your Audya working or is it still not working.

Reagrds

Tony

Leezone,

Take a look at this and this will explain what I mean about the UK, below is an excerpt from the UK Ketron site, Unionguy wrote to the site the administrator answered Ron , it’s all below.

This is what Ron wrote in a request from D avid, that David thought Ron was still running 1.2 on his Audya

“David, I updated the Audya to 2.0C not long after I bought it. It appeared to make no difference with any of the problems I was having. AJ from Audya left a message on my phone to call him back. I'm not sure if I will or not.”

David’s answer to Ron (Uniounguy) is below, can you tell me how the statement sounds to you, I am not making fun of you or anyone, when you have sent a reply to this I will tell you how I feel about David’s reply, please reply to this it might help everyone see how things can get twisted around.


“Well AJ is the expert across the water, as witness his Youtube masterclasses.
Give him a call -what have you got to lose?
Best wishes
Dave. “


Thanks Tony



[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 09-23-2009).]

what does your yearly income have to do with anything??

besides i have tried most arrangers, i own a G-70, G-800, XD-3,

and i have tried the AUDYA,

for my style of music, it's the best out there,

so it may no work for you, or your friend,

but for MANY it is PERFECT and bringing in the money, but maybe not as much as you're making

you use what's best for your style of music

for me it will be the AUDYA, for now it's my G-70 & XD-3

Leezone

I agree with what you say, my details are there just to inform you are not emailing pond life even though I am brain-dead, I have a level of consciousness - well someone thinks so. Did you get chance to look at the above reply that Ron got. BTW I got rid of a G70 about 3 years back and I didn’t rate it, it’s not a good seller in the UK it’s like you say Leezone it’s what you think.

I am just trying in my own way to tell you there is sufficient compelling evidence at this time that Audya is NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE , others are staying away while the dust dies down. OS3 is out next week I be rest assured I will be letting you know if it's as good as they say it is and then you can go for it or not.

Regards Leezone

PS Leezone I work long hours from my money, it's the bankers that we should be having a go at and Ketron


[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 09-23-2009).]

[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 09-23-2009).]

Hi guys
Looks like I'm in the "brain-deads party". I know the UK sense of humor Tony. My wife better not read these posts, I called her "brain-dead when she bought a UK made car. (went back to the dealer). Anyway. my question, not beeing a "computer guru". what's the best way of making a "clone" full back up of the Audya HD? in case of a crash. BTW, my Audya works fine so far, (better not say too much). may be this time I'm the lucky one. I was not when I bought my two other arrangers, but that was before I was "brain-dead".

Sorry Tony, bad example.....especially for those of us who knew LUCAS, Prince of Darkness personally and still have the remains of the numerous oil stains that still adorn our driveways even after all these many years . Those Healeys, and MG's and Jags really looked good, though.

chas

never used a hammer......

and I gig with an Audya, sounds great, can't beat the drums (haha)

------------------
www.AudioworksCT.com

Skude,

Perhaps it was a hell of a bad example we perhaps make cars like Ketron, what about motorbikes, Triumph Bonneville, go on then Harleys.

Ok Skude, you need first connect you PC to the far left rear USB socket with a lead, make sure your PC can see the Audya the Ayda screen will tell you it’s connected by you need to see it in the PC tree, you need to make sure your pc is going to see all files including hidden ones. If you have a problem with this email me. You see the directory in the tree “AUDYA”.Have a dummy run and just look at all the files, I will do if for you and send you a screen dump so they match.

Make a director on the PC called AUDYA and copy all the files from the Kb into this new directory on your PC, use a static PC if you can or if it’s a laptop make sure it’s plug into the mains, this is going to takes about 6 hours or so, do it overnight.

You are taking data from the KB so a power down would not normally give you problems if it did power down during the night you will need to do it all over again, if this does happens you will need to clear out all of the files that have been transferred over onto your PC before the power down. And start all over again.

Another way to do this is parallel to Franks but slightly different, buy a laptop HD caddy not a normal PC a laptop one the Audya drive is laptop drive, the caddy is an empty case that will take you Audya HD, take out your HD from the Audya place in the caddy, plug into power supply and USB caddy to PC and you are now transferring at none Ketron, about ten times faster, if you buy a spare laptop HD about £23.00 UK you can take you Audya HD out of the caddy and put you new HD in make copy remember first to make sure the new laptop drive is formatted in FAT32, circa Watergate, this is very old technology . All new PC use NFTS if you new drive is formatted in this reformat in FAT32.

Skude, If Frank does not come up with a external fix kit for this I will make one up and start exporting it, however I can’t imagine sales going through the roof there are only about 30 Audya UK and not many more across the pond.

If you have any question just ask, I have already done this and have a fully backup on PC.

Regards

Caddy about £9.00 in real money
http://www.usbnow.co.uk/Hard_Drive_Enclosures-2.5%22_Hard_Drive_Cases/c10_24/index.html

Go here for hidden files
http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/tutorial62.html#winxp


[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 09-24-2009).]

[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 09-24-2009).]

[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 09-24-2009).]

Frank,

Leave the jokes to me I can make a mess of them, you get on with the Auyda External Drive Kit (AEDK) I'll get the patent as if!

Tony

Tony!
Thanks for all info. about back up. 6 hours, I guess the "clone" would be the best way. But since my Audya works well I'm not gonna be the one that mess with it, by open it up,I mean, at least not yet. Since you have some experience with Ketron Support, one more question. I have backup of all the user stuff, regs, userstyles, etc. Suppose I have a HD crash and need a new drive, will Ketron supply me with the new files or whatever I need to get it going again? Than reloading my user stuff the Audya would be back to what it was before? If it goes wrong during a gig, it could never be fixed at the time anyway. I allways have a backup KB. BTW, to make up for the cars, I love the motorbikes, special the name Bonneville, I have on, mine has 4 wheels and is called Pontiac (1959). Thanks!

Ketron should supply a OS Backup DVD or CD in the package that make it possible to recover the
Audya HD and reset to factory settings.
At least they should have a downloadable iso-file and software to make a total recovery possible.

Regarding HD break down or failure, it's not a question about if it will happen, it's more a
matter about when it will happen......

Cheers
GJ

GJ,
Yes you are right Ketron should supply a backup set of system files, hidden etc, the registrations you make up yourself you can backup separately and it won't take too long, note there is no date stamping in the Audya, it has no RTC (real time Clock) note you where never asked to put in a date when you switch on first time, so you cannot backup by date modified, in the BMS trade we would call it a dumb terminal, that makes me a brain-dead, dumbo for buying it.

Skude,

If your HD goes down and you have a disk with the sys files and hidden files and all that came when the KB was new that will do, all the other files that you add like regs etc can be written to a stick, if the HD goes down you can just load everything back on via a USB cable, still a long process but you wont need to send it back to a dealer.

But how does it SOUND?

I've been accused by many of being brain dead for using the G70. It's too heavy, it has no MP3 player, no sampler, no multipads, no dual sequencers, no speakers, no SA or Mega Voices, no break/fills, no USB2, no pen drive input, no User Tone bank storage, no live loops, you name it....

But DAMN...! Set it up right, and it sounds fantastic!

I guess ignorance is bliss...

GJ

for backup DVD, they would need about 4 DVD's
i think we are talking over 13GB of data

Would a usb hard drive work?

Yep, but because they went to USB1 for the interface (and just how much per unit did that save them? ), reloading the entire HD will take a few hours or more. And the USB drive on a USB1 interface won't run fast enough for the live loop streaming to be able to use on the gig. USB2 would have solved this.

As to the reload being interrupted if done at home, that's WHY you have a UPS, isn't it?

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 09-24-2009).]

Thats why I clone my drives for everything i own including the audya< if i had a drive crash it would take me the most 10 mnutes to be back up and running with m regs, midi files and mp3s

I guess I'm alittle anal

------------------
www.AudioworksCT.com

Depending of what media to use. Doubble layer would put that 13GB into 2 DVD's.

Anyway, at the pricelevel Audya is placed in Norway, a backup HD (or 5) for quick
swap should have been included in the box..... or maybe a spare Audya

GJ

[This message has been edited by Gunnar Jonny (edited 09-24-2009).]

GJ,

Two Audyas "double trouble" ones certainly enough for anyone, go anal like Frank, you all need to check to see if your local dealer has a full system backup in any format, if your are not going to make a backup yourself and your HDD goes down, your dealer doesn't have a backup you won't be gigging that weekend.

Regards

BTW you won't be able to get anyone here to zip it up and send it to you, that would be much too easy, good sounds need massive samples, big files, massive HDD space is the payload.

Our local dealer has only sold 8 Audyas and two have been reformatted and reloaded

[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 09-24-2009).]