And just to let Bachus know, there is KARMA for OL and also for MOTIF will be or there is already.

I know Nedim..... But since i haven't tried a hands on with KARMA as we have no KORG dealer in this area i am just trying to figure out whats possible and if i can use KARMA for other things then modern music, i still think i really can... but there probably will not be many pre build modules for that.

@Diki

Diki did you see the video's i mentioned in my orriginal post, they really give you a good idea about whats possible with KARMA, they also show KARMA is not an Arranger, but many things of KARMA can be used very well in combination with an arranger.

The thing for me is, just because you CAN use them for fills doesn't mean that you HAVE to... it's simply another way of triggering another scene, arp, loop, whatever you want to call it. Just think DJ's cross cutting between tables. A way to go back and forth with two loops, and yet have them BOTH in sync with each other.

And, not JUST because it makes them good for fills... a loop that is programmed to go to another loop once it plays one time is a staple of DJ-ing. One-shots, aren't they?

You see, I think that those features that would help US would also help someone into electronica... All I'm looking for is a system that serves us BOTH. In sync arp switching and one shot loop destinations don't seem to be all THAT backwards looking... and would allow us all to straddle the line between arranger and Karma/arp/loop players wherever we felt like.

Bachus, you can achieve many things with KARMA that an arranger can and yes it
is possible to use KARMA for all kinds of music, even Country, Rock or anthing.
I am now building GEs for that kind of music and you'll hear how it works, the biggest
thing thats missing from an arranger on here is the FillIns.
Diki, i cant understand what do you mean by not staying in Sync, with KARMA everything
is in Sync when changing Scenes, even if you change another Arp everything still stays
in Sync, no matter changing Scenes, Arps or Sounds.
I dont have a good camera but i will try to record few things in real so you can understand
better and many Mortals will understand it better since existing videos are either of users
just playing or Pros with complicated instructions.

Nedim,

If i understand correctly the KARMA version for Open Labs will have a fill in function (triggered by drum pad 17)

I could be wtong to as my KARMA knowledge solely comes from reading about it and watching video's.....

You also said that there will be a KARMA for the Motif XS ? I haven't read anything about it.

Tough if i was yamaha, i certainly would get a license to build a version of KARMA into my Synthworkstations.

Now if Korg were to make Karma into a VST, then everybody would be able to use it, and would probably make Korg more money then they did with the OASYS.

Korg does not own KARMA.... KARMA is produced under license from KARMA lab.

Next to that, KARMA has no sound engine, it uses the sounds of a dedicated Synth engine, like a KORG M3 or soon an Open Labs NEKO.

If KARMA would be created as software it would be comparable to a mix of Arpeggiator/arranger/sequencer and probably function as a VST host.

Also KARMA is acombination of a software engine that is very tightly bound to the controlls of the hardware. When producing Karma as software you loose most of the ineractivity and flexibillity that the hardware controller offers you.

Ok, let's get practical here. Only 1 guy in 100, over the age of 50, is ever going to even come close to mastering the complexity of what I saw in the link in the opening post. Heck, I can barely remember what key a song is in, much less remember which of 150 buttons and switches to hit in the 3rd measure of the second verse while simultaneous playing the melody (or is it the chords?) with my right hand (dang, the button is on my right....never mind, it wasn't a button, it was a drawbar I was supposed to pull halfway out....too late now, that loop that was supposed to be playing now, is history and .....oh damn, I'm so confused (why is my audience booing?). Nahhhh, think I'll just stick to the organ.

When, where, who (except Nedim, of course ), would you be able to use this on a conventional gig, whether Country, Pop, Jazz, R&&B, whatever..... Is this intended for live use? Makes an arranger seem pretty tame by comparison, and most of us haven't even mastered those.

Although I realize that the 'musicianship' lies in the putting together of this kind of performance, I still can't help but feel that pre-programming performances like this and then reducing them to single button pushes, moves us further and further away from being live, performing musicians. JMO.

chas

Dear Chas,

You make the assumption that arrangers are for people 50+, or that there are only 50+ people vissiting this website.

I disagree to that.

With new ideas like the addition of KARMA and some DJ tools, arrangers could become popular with the youth.

Overhere in europe there allready are many younger people playing arrangers. And i am sure those people will keep playing arrangers if they become in addition to the old fashioned stuff become even more usefull for modern Music.

To keep arrangers alive, there needs to be innovation both in design as in options...

Feel free to disagree. My "50+" statement was aimed at members of this forum and in that context, is probably true. I also stand by the rest of my statement (see the "JMO" qualifier) even if it said partly in jest.

chas