Hi Everybody!
It´s time to me to upgrade my Tyros2 for another keyboard: Forget Tyros3 (it´s about the same), I don´t liked the PA2x (It sounds so close to the Tyros2, at least to my ears...) but the Audya sounds amazing to me, especially the latin rhythms. However, I read a lot of bad things from some users, although, not so much lately (a good sign?)
Could any body share some personal experience with it? Thanks in Advance!
Jo

I am enjoying the Audya a lot. There are some bugs still, but Ketron seems to be addressing them pretty quickly after they are brought to their attention.
There are a couple of wrong screens that appear but that should be fixed in the next OS update.
I am grateful for the new Operating System. It's far better than the one on the SD and X series.
I think you will be pleased with the Audya. With the price increases from some of the other makers, the cost isn't quite so out-of-line now. Still a lot of money, but we're WORTH it.
I plan to do a report soon, and also post some recordings. Not enough hours in the day right now to get everything done.
DonM

Perhaps, though, it might be best to wait and continue to enjoy your T2 until all the parts of the Audya that Ketron say are coming finally get here (editing tools would be primary, I would think) and the majority of the bugs squashed.

Let someone else be the beta tester for you, Jose! Don uses other arrangers as well (you gigging solely on the Audya yet, Don?), so those bugs may not be gig breakers for him. But if you sell your T2 to get the Audya, they may be more important than he makes out...

Hi DonM and Diki, thank`s for the comments

First, Diki, I`m aware of all the troubles that still are in the Audya, but the truth is, I think this machine sounds amazing. I can`t check myself now (TOO far from the next dealer) but read, heard and saw any info about the machine.
My Tyros2 worked perfectly for 3 years without a problem but, I hate its sound, since the begining. I`m a pianist, I don`t sing but play with a lot of people. All of them says that my keybord sounds weak and I agree, but was the best I could buy 3 years ago. I tried G70 (not bad, but the sounds and weight...), The PA2X, honestly, sounds as my Tyros, only worse (tested with headphones, different PA equipments, studio monitors (Genelec, Mackie, Yamaha, Auratone)even keyboard amps. Forget it, I don`t like it at all. Tyros3, a total dissapointment, sound more phasey than my Tyros2. I had Motif ES and XS, sold it too. I don`t like the sound. Period. Audya, all MP3 demos and videos I tried in different equipment and always sound good. I worked as a producer and recording musician for 25 years, so, I know what I like and what not.

DonM, tell me, what you think of the acoustic piano, electric pianos, organs, stability in a gig, what you like, what not.
I`m a pianist, and hate the "piano" sound of my Tyros2 (G70 one is very good, PA2X not much better than Yamaha)
In order to have an idea of what I do, take a look here:
www.myspace.com/jomartinsmusic

Thank`s in advance for your comments and help!!
Jo

Stability at the gig would be my primary concern, Jose...

I agree that most of the demos sound very good, and it definitely has that strong contemporary Latin stuff nailed, and a strong following and style support in Portugal. But unless, as an arranger, it remains bombproof on the gig, the quality of the sounds won't really be that important.

Something else to consider is, have you tended to edit your styles on the T2 much? If you like to customize them up, as far as I know, the Audya's editing tools are still not quite ready for primetime. The sampler is still a work in progress (no multisample import, for instance) and bugfixes seem a fairly frequent thing (good in a way, but it does expose how many and how basic some of the bugs are).

I can definitely feel your urgency for change, but I would want to KNOW that my livelihood doesn't depend on waiting for a bugfix for something that makes gigging difficult. And, in all fairness, despite glowing praise from just about ANYBODY, I would want a good store tryout for a day or two before I plunked down that much money for such a 'work in progress'... But that's just me! When I have something that works, I tend to be nervous about change until I am SURE...

In the meantime, how about just adding something like a Sonic Cell module to the T2, which does have some pianos pretty close to the G70's? It might get you through until you are sure the Audya is ready for primetime (and maybe even be good with the Audya, afterwards)... a LOT cheaper than an Audya, that's for sure

I'd personally just die for the sounds on a CD-ROM in Giga format.

A legal copy that is from KETRON bought and paid for and not a Lionstracks special by where they break copyright law and put a disclaimer on their website to blame a third party developer.

I think my days of owning an Arranger Keyboard are over. For me all I need is a simple Arranger type device like my QY700 connected to my V-Machine for the sound source.

Chuck those Ketron sounds into the V-Machine and I'd be one happy camper.

James

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 08-05-2009).]

Hi James
If you want Ketron sounds, get the SD2 as it has pretty much every sound of Ketron you should need. (If you need external editing then go for the SD4)
If you don’t mind using a Laptop or other computer, then try Livestyler Arranger software, as this gives you pretty much all you get in a standard arranger. (With the addition of VST Support)
I personally wouldn’t go back to a separates software system, (The fully integrated Wersi system is much more preferable) but as you are still suspicious of software arrangers/organs it may be a good alternative for you.
Regards

Bill

Hi Diki

Stability, yes, Too important. I have stability at a performance with my Tyros2 but, you know, I´m tired of its sound.

Yes, i programmed a few styles (latin mostly) but the Audya FAR exceeds in realism and quality.

SonicCell? I had since 1986 a Juno 106, then D50, then G800, G1000, XP80, Fantom, Fantom G, Fantom X6, then SonicCell. Roland? no, right now, no. Tried G70 and E80, the same, no. Piano sound? I have a Laptop with Pianissimo, Pianoteq 3 and Garritan Steinway. I use an 88 controller. Tried V-machine too, BUT! is totally inpractical to me.
MS? ugh...
Audya sounds great in mono, stereo, PC speakers, Large PA (and I mean MP3 done with all youtube videos available.) I tried G70 demos, PA2X, Tyros2 and Tyros3, the last ones sounded worse, Audya, far from perfect, has the fullest sound.

But yes, stability is my principal concern, then style creation, altought as I said, Latin, some swing and smooth Jazz even some Rock styles sounds spot on! (to me, at least)

I know that the Italians (supportimusicali.it) complain a lot the Audya (actually don´t understand very much the language, but thru some translation)

Oh, and Irishacts:

QY700 and Giga? QY700 is a great machine but Giga sounds needs a VERY capable PC. Then all the work needed to achive some good styles (if you listen a loop of a REAL player like a drummer, you clearly hear a lot of noises that not come from the drums, but from the PERFORMANCE that can´t be duplicated)

Anyway, THANKS a lot for the comments!
Jo

If that one was direct at me, you took me up wrong. It's the V-Machine I run Giga files on.

Regards
James.

Hi abacus



I'm not, the only one I have no faith in is the Mediastation. I'm much like you, you prefer an single system offering everything you need. That's why I got the OASYS and the only other item used continually with it right now is the V-Machine.

The only time I power up the QY700 is when I'm sequencing and I need to record the arranger side of it playing back into the Sequence of the OASYS for editing.

That why I've moved away from arrangers. My need for playing everything live has greatly changed. Now I sequence everything and just leave the main track for me to play along with. Having all my sound coming from the OASYS and the V-Machine gives me a huge smile too. Adding the SD2 would make things more complicated when all I need are the sounds in Giga format.

There's not much available when it comes to GM Sample libraries. Bandstand is pretty poor compared to the sound you get from a Ketron.

Anyway.. I'm only dreaming. Ketron would never release the sounds on a DVD-ROM.

Regards
James

Hi James

I own a V-machine. Giga sounds in VM? Using an external HD, I think. Cables, more cables...
Could you suggest a good Drums library and a good precussion one? If I use EZ drummer in VM, that´s it, nothing else. The same with the pianos. VM is not enough for use as a sound source for arranger. At least now. If the upgrade the processor and add more memory perhaps.

Have you an Audya? What´s your experience with it?
Thanks
Best Regards
Jo

I've been gigging with the Audya since Late April. knock on wood, no issues, a couple of bugs that once they happened you know how to get around them.Until the fix comes out



------------------
www.AudioworksCT.com
203.876.1133

Hi Frankieve, Thanks for the comments.

Those bugs, happend during a live performance? What arranger you used previusly, how it compares to the Audya now? Do you use the piano sound? how it compares to other keyboards piano?
Thanks again!
Regards
Jo

I feel all arrangers have their strong points, and it all depends on what you play, how you play, and if you use other playbacks and so forth to see if the arranger is for you.

I have used everything from a Tyros 1,2,3 Roland G800,G1000,VA7,G70, Korg PA800, PA1xpro, PA2xpro. Ketron X1, SD5,SD1, Audya

the bugs were small and were fixed with the latest OS update.

I can give you a list 10 miles long of what I hate or want changed on the Audya, but I could also do that for each of the other keyboards too.

The piano sound is good, not the greatest but for what it is used for it's good. I think the live styles are hard to beat on the Audya

------------------
www.AudioworksCT.com
203.876.1133

Jose, I think that the Audya would be a better fit for the type of music that you play,(Assuming that he plays trad. portuguese). Ketron will work out all the bugs in time as anyother brand works out theres in future OS updates. Good luck,

Mario

Hi Jose.
I am currently in the transition between Tyros 2 and the Audya. Just like you I have become tired of the dull sounds of the Tyros 2. I can certainly recommend the Audya. The sounds, be they styles or solo voices, by far tops any other arranger I've heard. The metal build is rock solid, which is great compared with the the cheap plastic crap found on the T2. The board still has some minor bugs which should hopefully be corrected soon, not too much of a big deal in my case. There is however one major problem with Audya and that is the registrations. These are not nearly "advanced" enough compared with the T2. A simple thing like saving the Intro for a style in a registration is not possible. This practically makes the keyboard useless! but then again this depend upon how you have used registrations previously.

[This message has been edited by Morten Jonassen (edited 08-05-2009).]

Would you care to elaborate as I'm very interested in the Audya, but my acts depend completely on registrations.

Regards,
Henni

As I mentioned it depends on how you are using the registrations, for some the Ketron way is sufficient but for me its simply not.

Let me give you an example of how you can use registrations on Yamaha keyboards, which is not possible on Ketron keyboards.
On the Yamaha you have a registration bank or “block” which consists of eight single registrations. This is basically the same on the Audya except a registration block on the Audya can actually contain twenty single registrations instead of only eight.
The big difference is what you can actually save in these single registrations. On the Yamaha you can save EVERYTHING eg. fill ins, breaks, intro, endings.
What this means is you can have one complete performance (one title) using those eight regs. Lets say I have a verse in the song using variation B with piano in the right hand and now I want a break and then play a solo using variation D with guitar in the right hand and strings in the lower part; on Yamaha no problem: I can save this change in my registration and only need to press ONE button. On the Audya this is not possible, I would have to press about 5 buttons at the exact same time while still playing.
This is not flexible at all.

Hi,

Which of the following cannot be saved on the Audya then:

1. Style
2. Variation
3. Intro
4. Tempo
5. Transpose settings
6. Right hand voices

Thanks for your reponse,
Henni

[This message has been edited by Henni (edited 08-06-2009).]

The Intro is the only thing that can not be saved.

Hi All,

I have had an Auyda since around May we have had 3 upgrades and it's still not right, some of the problems are basic, button sequences etc main page style does not match with the style and I am still finding the KB locks up, my OS is the same as your if you are up to speed 2.0C, are the samples really any better than Tyros3, are they much better, are they £1000.00 better, I don’t care if we get a new revision of OS every week it only takes minutes to load, but Ketron need to keep up with the problems. I play my Audya about 4 hrs every day, not that I get any better at playing, but I am finding button sequences frustrating, some buttons don’t work if others are down, every time you press Micro or Vocalizer the menu pops up, my car radio has more about button control. I write software program myself and the code to drive the button on the Ketron must be humongous, but they are the experts, we just the end users and we should have it right tomorrow not wait, they may never get it right, I sure they will, but when.
You chaps appear to be raving about the Audya, someone throw me a comfort blanket tell me it is much better than Tyros 3 and my ears are going before I trade it in, I don’t have your patience any more!

Regards to you all.

Tony

Hi Jose



Whoops, I wasn't suggesting you make use of it like me, I was merely saying I'd love to have the Audya sound in GIGA format for my own one.

As for External HDD's, no I just use a OCZ memory stick. It can do about 35MB/s I blieve which would be faster than a portable HDD.



I find it greatly depends on what your running. If you stick to Sample Lord and use Giga files or whatever else sample lord reads, you can't go wrong. You get a minimum of 64 notes even when running mulit tracks and I guess that will go up to 156+ notes when the CPU upgrade comes out.

Sorry I don't have any drum libraries I can recommend. All my drum libraries would be orchestral based. For standard kits I just use what's on my OASYS.



Probably not now, but certainly when the CPU upgrade comes providing you use Sample Lord.



Memory is not so much of an issue if you use the right software and stream everything. Sample Lord only partly loads each sample to memory so the RAM usage can be very low and so far I haven't come across a sound I couldn't load.



Nope don't have one, I'm just someone who has spent a lot of time with the keyboard as I was helping out with sales for a music store.

My opinion on the keyboard is quite simple really. It plays and sounds bloody fantastic, but the OS is incomplete. KETRON are obviosuly working away on the OS so in general the experience with the KETRON is a pretty positive one all round.

My only beef would be the price tag. For what it cost it still trails FAR behind in factures when compared to the competition. That said, at the end of the day it does what matters most effortlessly which is, it sound damn good.

Regards
James

Just wanted to clarify some points mentioned above:-

1. AUDYA SAMPLER:- As of OS 2.0, AUDYA can load samples (wave format) and Multi Samples. The SAMPLER-EDITOR is fully functional (meaing once you've copied Wave files into the HD of the AUDYA, you can now make your own sounds/Multi-Samples directly on the keyboard). You can assign, edit, cut, develope ... etc wave files and use ... all in your AUDYA! What you cannot currently do (until 3.0) is create/record wave sounds/files, but if you have already created these elsewhere, you are set to go/use them on AUDYA.

2. STYLE EDITOR:- As of OS 1.0b, AUDYA can EDIT styles (with the AUDIO STYLE MORPHING) feature. There are drum, bass, guitar [more guitar, bass and piano coming in OS 3.0] audio banks which you can use from/to any style and save as a new custom/user style. With 3.0, Ketron will release the PC/MAC STYLE CREATOR and later, this tool will be available on AUDYA to allow you to CREATE your own styles from SCRATCH!

3. REGISTRATIONS. The registration tool on the AUDYA (for now) doesn't save intro/endiging(in the sense that if you call up a registration which was saved with a style in Ending/Intro, the style will start playing from the variation that was saved within the registration once you press START (or with any key prssed to the left of the split point with KEY-START on). The user has to press only one button to recall the registration and one button extra if they want the style to start with an intro/ending ... not more than that. Everything else is saved within the Registration ... plus more. As a step further, the AUDAY also saves wav, MP3, midifiles ... etc within the Registration ... yes. So within a BLOCK Registration (which can be made up of 20 Single Registrations), you can occupy the 20 spots with Single Registers, MP3, WAVE, STYLES, text ... etc and instantly have access at your finger-tips on the screen!

Just thought I'd elaborate a little more.

Thanks,

AJ

The trouble being, with the sampler, that the Ketron will only load up a multi-sample AFTER you have created it. You can't, AFAIK, load a soundfont multisample, or, even more importantly (because it was promised for the Audya), Akai import.

As anyone that has labored to create a multi velocity drum kit, or piano set, or any other complicated sampled instrument knows, the chore of loading all the hundreds of samples, and mapping them to the notes and velocity ranges is tedious and slow. Akai and Soundfont import would simplify the process, and also open the Audya to a vast library of ready to go, high quality sample sets of just about any instrument you could imagine...

When is the promised Akai import going to arrive, AJ?

Did you know if you have the Audya registration button down the MICRO and VOICETRON buttons don't work!

Tony,

When pressing the Registration, access to the vocalizer/voicetron and Mic were disabled as of 2.0 so as to avoid drastic vocal effect changes when you switched from a registration to another with a totally different vocal setting (unless you freeze the mic settings in the Registration Menu).

It will be re-enabled in 3.0 and you the user can now choose if mic and vocalizer should adopt the new vocal settings per the new registration or maintain current registration voice settings and ignor the new one ... your call!

Thanks,

AJ

[This message has been edited by Ketron_AJ (edited 08-06-2009).]

Great , finally The Style Creator in OS 3.0 , and AJ when we can expect OS 3.0 ? And one more question will there be any possibility to create own Live Drum loop ,or to combine differents Live Drums in variations , and there are problems with endings and intros or fill ins when want to input Live Drum on own made patterns in earlier models of Ketron (SD1,X1) , can you imagine to play variations with Live Drums and then comes ending with Midi drums without Live drum.

[This message has been edited by Rule (edited 08-07-2009).]

KETRON seem to be really moving full steam a head in a big way here. Well done guys.

While normally you should have all this kind of thing done before the keyboard is even released, I have to say that your track record will remain unbroken for a great sounding product. It was an instrument at first, and now it's growing into an Arranger Workstation.

Regards
James

Well,
Audya should be delivered with a delivery date for all work still left that should have
been done before the release, as well as what's planned to do of what they did not find
time to finish before start sell the machine.
On top of that, there is bugs and faults found and/or still to be found by the customers.

I sold my SD1 because I was going to buy Audya, but that will not happen before I feel
it's worth the very big pricegap from i.e. Korg PA2X and Tyros3.
At the moment the "offer price" here is 7400 US$, ordinary price is close to 10000 US$ !!
(For that money I can add both the PA and Tyros to my G-70 and maybe have twice as much
fun?)
Wonder how many Audya sold to end users worldwide, and where the big sales are done?

Cheers
GJ

GJ,

I am a little confused at the whole thing with Ketron, I have an Audya and unless my ears deceive me with age I cannot make this massive difference that the Audya is supposed to have over the Tyros 3, there are thousands of T3 in use and if you look at the number of You tube on T3 and the very few Audya - the sales tell the story. There are probably no more than 30 You Tube sounds bits to look at World Wide for the Audya, and they are not increasing, T3 more every day.
I know that the T3 doesn’t look the professional bit of kit, it’s plastic, but all the You Tube snippets I have heard it sounds pretty good, I play the Auyda and I am not convinced it that much better if at all.
There are a few people who have been faithfully to Ketron over the years, I had an SD1 + and when I look at it now I shudder , finding the files in the DOS window how the hell did we put up with it, other manufactures have touch screens, I know the T3 doesn’t.
I don’t know what the pull is with KETRON but it isn’t at all the sound quality, it’s something else, it’s not the styles, simplify because the best styles on the Audya are those that Ketron decided to make available recently off their early KBs, someone tell me what is going on and don’t tell me it’s sample quality, I would think that Yamaha have better facilities for capturing and manipulating samples than KETRON and more money to get the best sounds.
If you are adamant about the samples quality how do KETRON do it over the giant?
I am not bitching I would just like to know, I know Jose started this very interesting thread, he loves the LATIN sounds from Ketron, the reason the Ketron sound so LATIN it is LATIN.

I have given my Audya back to my supplier to let him see the menu problems first hand and I am borrowing a T3 for a short while.

Regards

Tony

Hi Tony
Please, excuse me if this thread give's so much trouble...
I never, never played a Ketron but heared some people that uses it (X1 and SD1+). To my ears, even the old X1 sounds fuller than my Tyros. The owner of the SD1+ once played thru the same PA (a big 20.000 Watts), using my cables and his sounded fuller than mine. Tyros2 sounds beutifull in ballads, slow jazz, slow, very orchestrated stuff. That's true. But fails miserabily in Dance, Rock, Latin... I realised too that the SA sounds loses all the "beauty" in those genres.
HEY!! I'm not defending Ketron or any other brand, is just my point of view. I still feel the Audya isn't all I'm looking for. The learning curve will be very painfull too, I know.
Tyros3, I downloaded A LOT of videos from Youtube and done MP3 and played thru several equipment and Always sounded thin, worse in mono. Sorry, no more Tyros for me. At least, right now. But which one? PA2X is, sorry owners, "awfull" to my ears. It sounds like a toy, as my Tyros. Roland sounds a lot better but it also lacks a lot of things, more actual things.
People, beleive me, I don't want a Ketron if it don't fullfill my needs right now, as simple as that. Is just that it sounds "closer" to my ears, but "far" from my needs!
PLease, keep comming the comments, but not create a war!!
Best Regards
Jo

Jose,

I think we have the answer in your reply , you say the PA2X is awful to your ears , I said I was thinking of selling my Audya and someone answered my thread "don't buy a T3 buy a PA2X it's the best thing sliced bread!

I don't want to start a war I just want to know why people think that the Audya sounds better than the T3 I now know this is not true and it is purely down to our own perception some bit on one KB sound better than bits on others.

Jose thanks for your frank and honest reply if you are confused about this all don't if you like the superb LATIN sounds of the Audya go for it, but if you like the easy to play and fantastic powerful ballad on the T3 that the Audya cannot produce then you may need to stick with the T3.

Then comes the backup, you need to be happy with the way KETRON, are they reacting to problems on the Audya on the fly - AJ says there is OS3 coming, hope we are not going through to 2.0Z before (joke) we get to OS3.0.

Jose, I think there is something also going on here, if you are performing in front of an audience, the logo on the KB must be KORG or ROLAND , YAMAHA TYROS 3 doesn’t look right, the T3 doesn’t look big enough, it’s for home use only, it’s an embarrassment to a prof, whilst KETRON on the front of a KB no one would ever know, I am 65 and I have never seen a group on TV playing a KETRON. Portugal TV we don't get in the UK.

I have only ever seen one KETRON being played in a hotel in Jerez Spain and I had one at that time, I was really pleased, I must be mad of daft!

Kind Regards

Tony


[This message has been edited by Tony Hughes (edited 08-09-2009).]

Diki, no, maybe you missunderstood AJ, Audya can load Single Waves too and then you create
your own MP same as on any other synth, it loads
only Wave files, not Akai...we'll wait for it
but for now we can still create sounds.

Direct comparisons of various manufactures
http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/Forum37/HTML/019567.html

It may give you a bit more to think about

I've got a pretty big Akai library. A LOT of people got good Akai libraries, and a lot of people are selling good Akai libraries. Other than a small Roland representation, and a bit of Emu, the large majority of all sampling done until recently, when Giga and Soundfont took off (and most of those are too big to load practically into an arranger) was done in the Akai format. Which also had the advantage of a mere 32MB of RAM, so the samples are well optimized to take up as little RAM as possible and still sound great (just what an arranger needs!).

Simple fact of the matter is, if you want RAM efficient sampled instruments, you HAVE to have Akai import. Otherwise, you have so little quality choice, it's hardly worth the bother...

Hi Tony.

Yeah, looks like some of us are more than confused, but you're in a far better position than me to judge the
Audya as it is by now since you already bought and play the "wondermachine".....
Well, at least that's what some want us to think it is, a wondermachine, but this will always be a matter of
personal taste and needs.

What made Ketron SD1 a favourite to me, is the very live feeling (specially bass and drums) when play by use
of onboard-styles and also the overall sound when jump from style to style that make you feel it's the very
same band/crew playing.
The stylecollection suits my style of playing, and it's no problem to do a gig almost as it is (right out of
the box) as soon as you found out what buttons to press to change styles and sounds.
And, I have'nt forgot the 76 very good and playable keys that also helps a lot to put a big smile on my face.

If not done a lot of adjustmens and editing, Technics and Roland is quite different, swap a style, and you're
moved from one orchestra to another both soundvise and crew mix. When listen to Tyros or other Yamaha stuff, it
seems to me it's the same thing.
But then again, editing may be far more easy than the Ketron OS (before Audya?), that to an old Technics user
as me seems like a nightmare.

Anyway, I had no reason to believe that Audya would not be a winner and a BIG step forward compared to SD1, and
there is no doubt that some of the "demoes" uploaded sounds great.
Sadly, the long way of hype and waiting before it finally shipped to customers, also the bugs and all unfinished
stuff we can read about as well as the high price level we see here, make me keep my wallet closed for Audya by
use of more than only one padlock! In fact, at the moment there is a drop of superglue in the keyhole as well.

Cheers and happy playing
GJ

Hi Bill,
sd2 has similar sounds , but not the same quality as my sd1+ had.
I had both.
Audya quality, would no doubt be better again.
best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by abacus:
[B]Hi James
If you want Ketron sounds, get the SD2 as it has pretty much every sound of Ketron you should need.

Jonny,

I have a T3 on loan, I had a T2 before I bought the Auyda, I have only played with the T3 for about 2 hrs. I am going to give you my opinion as I go, a number of points already for you.

T3 go to a menu bar and then go back to it having made serveral sreceen changes and the T3 will take you back to where you started, Audya will loose you after you have moved out of the first window.

The Ballads on the T3 are mind blowing the ballads on the Audya are not a patch on the T3.

The T3 does sound thin and tiny I am sure the mixer will get rid of that.

At first the T3 does not appear to be much further on than T2 but I have only had it for 2 hours, time will tell.

As I said these are two different KB I think T3 for home use and the Audya for profs.

Hi Tony
That`s exactly what I mean about the Tyros3: it sounds amazing in orchestral, ballad stuff, but beleive me, you will try ANY EQ at the mixer or internal mixer and compressor and the sound will allways be tiny, shallow, lacking, even in those ballads.
The problem seems that the stereo samples from Yamaha are too processed (aural enhancers?) in order to create that "deep" "big" stereo that not all equipment settings or alternatives can mantain in a live situation.
Tony and to everyone here, I Never, ever, played an Audya yet, just downloaded Youtube videos and some mp3 at different websites (including Ketron) and played (thru different
equipments, PA, monitors, headphones)
together with other videos and mp3 from PA2X, Tyros, Tyros2, Tyros3, G70, Sd1+, etc and allways Audya sounded
"better", far from perfect, but "better" (a tiny better is what I mean)
That`s why I`m asking for the owners of Audya comparing to their previus machines.
Is Audya for me? I wish... have I the money? different story... But I have hope!!
So, any Audya owner is totally dissapointed with their machine?? So, is totally useless?
What alternative are you looking for?
For me, I wanted to be Korg but, I can`t simple tolerate the machine. I tried I friend`s one and simple... forget it.
Why oh why!! A simple XS7 or Fantom G7 can`t play styles!!! and don`t tell me to use mp3 or smf, that`s not my way of working (and here in Portugal, EVERYBODY knows who uses playbacks and who play live. People here says: If I want to hear a song "as the record" I simple buy the record... I want your "version" of the song, if you know what I mean.)
And now that I say Portugal, Please, don`t tell me that I have the Ketron representative in Portugal, I KNOW THAT!! but is almost a 600 to 700 Euros trip only to try it, since I live in an Island. That`s why I`m asking for some comments
Thanks again and keep posting!
Best Regards to all
Jo

Jose, I believe that negative responses to SMF come from people taking the lazy way out, and using commercial 'just like the record' SMF's. Make your OWN SMF's (even from arranger play) and your backing can have as much individuality as your style play, and possibly more.

Use Markers to allow on the fly rearrangement of the song's structure, on the fly transposition to allow for an optional 'lift' on repeat verses and choruses, and I personally see little difference to full arranger mode. With, of course, the advantage that you have freed your LH from the tyranny of HAVING to input the chords, and gained 100% to the input that YOU make in the tune.

In all fairness, if people are being critical of machine input, playing in arranger mode actually has LESS of 'you' and more of the machine than playing two fisted over a self made SMF....

Hi Diki
I do use my own SMF, done with styles from Tyros2 (awful), Band in a box (excellent real drums, terrible to program, poor flexibility,) and of course, totally sequenced with top VSTi, BUT I only use those MP3 to play solo piano, acustic, real one.
Here, beleive it or not, all the people where I worked KNOW when your using your arranger live and when your using SMF (even from styles, played at my Tyros or whatever keyboard) Here, or you plays the hole enchilada or you`re fired. As simple as that. On the piano I tend more and more to play without backing band. People prefer the effort when I play salsa, swing, bossa, whatever only with the piano. Well, it works for me.
But the experience to play with "real drums" from Band in a box for example, is so gratifying... That is one of the things that attract me to the Audya. Oh! and the Audya basses, excellent too (I`m also a bass player too...) but stability is a real concern, mostly comming from the most stable arranger as is the Tyros2.
Well, I have to comment...
Regards
Jo

Sorry!
I HAD to comment...

My english is as bad as my spanish and portuguese, so sorry!!

Jo

Jose,

I don't think any of this is helping you get an angle on buy or not to buy a KETRON AUDYA I don't think there are that many people got them to help you make that decision, Audya is not like BMW 3 series, save up your money and go and buy one. They do sound good, it’s the button control I go on about. I must tell you what I do from a job and then you will understand why I go on about it. I write software for building management system where users access data and graphics via buttons on a keypad or a mouse on a PC , all my buttons do what the client wants’ them to do.

Regards Tony

Draw a line under this Jose, it's getting too complicate by far!

No, Jose, glad to hear your input. What I fail to see is, how does your audience accept you playing an arranger as 'genuine', where the truth is, you are probably only playing a melody or one handed piano part over the top of 90% of what they hear being NOT you, and yet you get fired for using an SMF where you play fully with both hands?

I can see them accepting a solo only performance as being the most genuine, but how do most of the audience even TELL the difference between you playing two handed on an arranger (at least, they see you playing with both hands) and playing two handed over the top of an SMF? Are they honestly so skilled as musicians that they really can tell the difference?

Because I know a boatload of guitarists and drummers and bass players that have NO IDEA what form of accompaniment I am using. They simply know I'm not playing it ALL. If musicians can't differentiate it, I honestly think you give too much credit to the audience. They simply know when they are hearing a 'just like the record' performance. If you played a 'Song Style', that is made to sound just like the record, they would probably have exactly the same reaction to it.

Yes, using SMF's has got a bad rap, mostly because of poor to REALLY bad keyboard players using them as karaoke, and playing little over the top. But, just as there are good and bad arranger users, there are good and bad SMF users. Most of what I use are bass/drums and maybe a guitar part (if needed ) and that's pretty much it... Do you honestly mean to say that I would have a hard time working your area doing that, but if I used an arranger to play 90% of what they hear, I would do well?

Glad I play where I do, in that case!

I'm having extremely bad luck with the Audya. The first one was damaged in shipping to me. Nothing serious but several of the keys were clunking when released. There was a hole in the box that lined up with the damaged keys.
It was swiftly replaced, but after a couple of weeks, the second one developed a sound output problem that proved to be terminal.
Another replacement is on the way. Ketron US have been super in their support. I am very happy with most of the features and particularly the new Operating System. As with the older models there are MANY dedicated buttons to facilitate real-time playing.
I should get the new one in a couple of days.
I also got a sneak preview of 3.0. It's going to add a LOT. I think the Audya is now ready for release to the public. Sorry, couldn't resist, but there is probably no one that will disagree that even after all that time, it was released a little prematurely. However, the feedback (you could call it Beta testing) was probably necessary to determine what needed to be addressed. It is an extremely deep and powerful machine and Ketron seems to be quickly acting to fix things as they are brought to their attention. It now seems to be stable and the current upgrades are no longer critical fixes, but instead enhancements.
DonM

Couldn't agree more Diki. For the record, I try very hard to be one of those good SMF users!

I'm guessing Jose is primarily an instrumentalist (no vocal) and thus the focus is on his playing - it's under more scrutiny. (Feel free to corect me Jose )

Where I (we) play, the emphasis is placed on vocals, so a fluffed solo or wrong note, or, I guess more to the point SMF/Arranger/"Pure" playing (unaccompanied) comes a distant second compared with an out of key Vocal.....


[This message has been edited by hellboy44 (edited 08-12-2009).]

But, were HIS playing to be under great scrutiny, one would think that the form of music that requires MORE 'human' playing, and less machine would be the preferred form. Apparently, the converse is true...

Hi Diki
Yes, I`m an instrumentalist (classical pianist) and only use an arranger when I`m in duo with singers that don`t play at all.
People really don`t like so much arrangers: too much buttons and lights that "disguise" poor playing. When I play, I only use Drums, percussion and bass. And mostly play in "piano mode", full keyboard recognition.
When we play I always stop the machine and play "rubato parts" make "mistakes" (people sings with us so we extend a bar here and there, etc)
Well, is my way of working, and I`m not the only one here.

DonM, Thank`s for posting!
Oh my God, two Audyas with troubles? not good. But the company attitude seems very good. Besides your problems, how you judge the machine, and even more with the beta 3.0 version you have? At least, is more stable?

People, if you want to take a look of what I do, feel free to visit here: http://www.youtube.com/jomartinspiano
There`s a lot of videos, some solo, some with backing tracks.

THank`s a lot for your comments!!
Jo

Audya owners:
I need a little help from you (if possible):
My main instrument is piano as I said, and the worst sound in Tyros2 is the piano... I know that is almost impossible to duplicate correctly, and I have excellent piano in vst, but don´t want to carry the laptop with an arranger, or use another module.
So far, all the piano sounds I heard from Audya sounds decent to me, but the youtube compression and recorded from camera`s mic, doesn`t help at all.
Could anybody record for me a few minutes of the main piano sound? PLEASE! I don`t pretend to judge your playing, just to hear the piano sound and evaluate thru my equipment, and THANKS in advance!

Regards
Jo

From discussions on this forum, most persons would agree that the problem with arranger players customizing SMFs is that arranger players do not have the technical and musical creative skills to do so.

The same way they are able to use styles is the same way they use SMFs; OOTB and no personalization.

For those of us who actually use the arranger for what it was made for, we customize and make the sound on the gig our own and not just what a prerecorded machine gives us.

To the Genesys, Thanks!
"For those of us who actually use the arranger for what it was made for, we customize and make the sound on the gig our own and not just what a prerecorded machine gives us."

This is what I do, actually.
Best Regards
Jo

PS: Have you and Audya? Played it? what do you think? what you uses actually?
Thanks again

Just out of curiosity, Jose, have you tried the G70 in Pianostyle mode? For what you say you need, a 76, a great piano sound, and good tracking in Pianostyle Mode, it might be just the ticket.

I put this together very quickly (it's got plenty of those mistakes your audience needs to hear to be sure it's real ): http://www.roland-arranger.com/smf/index.php?topic=444.msg2597#msg2597

At around $2000 for a used one (at least in the States), getting one of these could leave you $3000 to buy something else as well, compared to an Audya!

Hi Diki
BEAUTIFULL!!! Congratulations!

G70 was my first choice when I was to buy the Tyros2. The weight and size overwelmed me: I`m short and have difficulty to carry big keyboards. I used to have a FP7 piano, loved it!! but I almost broke my back trying to carry that beast. Right now I use a Casio privia and a laptop with pianissimo. Enough for me...
But right now, I think that "upgrade" from a Tyros2 to a G70 isn`t my best option. And there`s something "strange" about Roland styles. Don`t ask, I can`t explain. Yamaha isn`t much better, but easily customizable.

Well people, I think that I did a lot of errors in my life, and still don`t learn from them... I still think is my only choice right now, and Ketron is trying to improve the machine so, I`ll buy an Audya in a few days and see what happens. I`ll keep my Tyros. Whish me good luck!
Jo

All the best with whatever you chose, Jose...

Being pretty short myself, I feel your pain when it comes to the bigger keyboards (5'4"), but I have managed to learn good dolly and leverage technique, and seldom have to dead lift my G70 and flight case.

I think that the ROM Latin styles are not the best available, certainly not as contemporary as some, but there is a wealth of styles available on the web, some from Roland Brazil, some translations, etc., that can change the character of the instrument. Certainly, Roland's style editing tools make it the easiest of all arrangers to change something to the way YOU want it, rather than spending a fortune for a pretty much preset arranger that, because you'll want ALL your styles to be as good as the audio loop ones, you'll be at the mercy of the style providers to make what you want...

Have you heard a GW-8L (Latin) yet, Jose? How would you rate those styles?

Hi Diki

Hey! I´m 5´4´´ too...
As I said, the G70 was my first choice at the time. Took the Tyros for the size and weight and several sounds that I liked more than the G70. Well, another bad decision of the past...
As I said, I use to have a G800 (heavy) then a G1000... man, that beast almost broke my spine. I only use it for 2 months. That was also the reason for not take the G70 the first time

I played the GW-8L. The latin styles are funny, to say the least. Real latin don´t sound like that in a real world. And the keyboard is simple put, a toy. I feelt that alomost broke when I played it.
And I want a 76 keys again. As I said, I think I´m a little obsessed for the Audya, and must play one for at least a month in order to know if it really suits me. As I said, i keep the Tyros, just in case...
Regards
JO

Smart move, Jose. I have a feeling that the Audya will rock your world initially, but unless new audio styles are developed for it on a pretty continual basis, it could tire on you fairly quickly. I know I am always looking for fresh beats, even for tunes I already do...

Thanks for the GW8 impression. I am always looking for someone's experienced opinion about Latin beats (I use so few;(). Personally, I thought that the kits themselves (especially the Latin kits) had pretty good sounding drums and percussion, so perhaps it only remains for someone well versed in the genre to make styles for it, but yes, I also got the 'funny' feeling about many of the styles. If Roland hadn't cut so many corners in making it such a bargain basement arranger, and cut out the style editing tools, it might be fixable... But, as is, it's going to be a PITA for anyone not absolutely in love with the ROM styles...

Last suggestion to save your back... Have you tried an E60? 76 keys, 26 lbs. most of the good from the G70, and the editing tools from the TOTL models. And you could possibly buy three or four of them for what an Audya will cost!

Anyway, best of luck with the Audya. I have a feeling you will be one of those capable of giving us an unvarnished review of it without glossing over problems...

Well my experience of the Audya is funny, given that i am more of a develloper
lately then a live player i care about certain things more then other people do.
I still havent had pleasure as on the PA50 or S900 yet...it still has a long way to
go. Firstly Audya has no SoundEdit at all, people might claim that but HELLO NO!
No way in hell there is a SoundEdit...oh yes i know, changing the speed of the
Delay or Flanger but i am talking bout SoundEdit which in my understanding is
waaaaaayyyyyyy different then what it is on an Audya.
Second, FX...no reason to get into talking...DOESNT HAVE ANY!!!
About Style Editing i just wont say nothing...