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#267357 - 07/09/09 09:55 AM Re: Need lightweight synth w. good piano and E.P. sounds
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Sorry, squeak... I guess the smileys didn't tip you off

Yes, I was just ribbing you a bit. Actually, I find both of those Roland's pretty amazing value for money, at those featherweight prices.

And, to be honest, I think I misdirected it at you, when it should really have been to Dennis, who would like remote control options on a sub-$900 arranger that unfortunately don't exist on even TOTL ones!

Sorry if I failed to get my intentions clear....
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#267358 - 07/09/09 10:18 AM Re: Need lightweight synth w. good piano and E.P. sounds
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
My bad man.., I read your response bright and early this morning and hadn't even had a cup of coffee yet. My brain's OS was still booting up for the day and I think a driver failed to load

I got some cool news today. Sweetwater informed me that I was the FIRST pre-order through them for the Juno-Di I take that as being WAY COOL considering Sweetwater's relationship with Roland.



[This message has been edited by squeak_D (edited 07-09-2009).]
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GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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#267359 - 07/09/09 10:26 AM Re: Need lightweight synth w. good piano and E.P. sounds
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
No problem, mate. Haven't had my java yet myself

You know, I'd be fascinated to see if a Sonic Cell/JunoDi type editor would work on a GW8... Sys-ex is sys-ex, after all. Roland have a sneaky way of not documenting things that actually work, especially when sys-ex is concerned.
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#267360 - 07/09/09 10:45 AM Re: Need lightweight synth w. good piano and E.P. sounds
squeak_D Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 4715
Loc: West Virginia
Diki you should see the software editor for this new Juno Di man! It's unreal and MILES ahead of the previous software editor for the Juno D/le. Reports are coming in that the software editor for the Juno Di expands the patch editing options of the synth and brings them up to Fantom level!

The software for the Di looks identical to the SonicCell too.

I don't know why Roland included that huge soundset for the GW8 and didn't offer the same software editor. It would be interesting to see if they worked together too because the GW8 would really benefit from that software editor.

Squeak
_________________________
GEAR: Yamaha MOXF-6, Casio MZX-500, Roland Juno-Di, M-Audio Venom, Roland RS-70, Yamaha PSR S700, M-Audio Axiom Pro-61 (Midi Controller). SOFTWARE: Mixcraft-7, PowerTracks Pro Audio 2013, Beat Thang Virtual, Dimension Le.

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#267361 - 07/09/09 01:24 PM Re: Need lightweight synth w. good piano and E.P. sounds
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
Quote:
Originally posted by Diki:
Sorry, squeak... I guess the smileys didn't tip you off

Yes, I was just ribbing you a bit. Actually, I find both of those Roland's pretty amazing value for money, at those featherweight prices.

And, to be honest, I think I misdirected it at you, when it should really have been to Dennis, who would like remote control options on a sub-$900 arranger that unfortunately don't exist on even TOTL ones!

Sorry if I failed to get my intentions clear....


Where the f#@k did that come from!!! I never said anything of the sort!!!

I made no mention of "wanting" any function. I was pointing out the serious lack of BASIC functions on the GW and the Prelude.

I said simply that there was no NTA function and that you cannot change patches in the styles.

These functions that you seem to think are "higher functions" and therefore should not be on a "budget" keyboard are on pretty much EVERY other arranger regardless of price.

Oh and out here the GW7 is a + $2000 keyboard.



[This message has been edited by miden (edited 07-09-2009).]

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#267362 - 07/09/09 02:09 PM Re: Need lightweight synth w. good piano and E.P. sounds
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
You didn't mention voice editing, so consider the Yamaha PSR-S550B...a nice little arranger...a bit more loot than the GW-8, but it offers:

Keyboard: 61 Standard size keys (C1-C6) with Touch Response

Display: Large Backlit Black and White LCD (320 x 240 dots) displays notation, lyrics and chords

Voices:
- Total Number: 774 Voices+22 Drum Kits
- Compatibility: General MIDI (GM) & XGlite Compatible
- Piano Voice Quality: Stereo High Resolution
- Sweet! Voices, Cool! Voices, Live! Voices: Dedicated buttons
- Dual / Split: Yes / Left, Duel
- Drum Kits: 22 Drum Kits
- Polyphony: 64 Note

Auto Accompaniment:
- Styles: 176 styles
- Variations: 4- Variation A~D & Fill
- One Touch Settings: 4 per style
- Registration Memory: 8 x 8 Banks
- Music Database: 500 setups by song title

Digital Effects:
- Reverb: 36 types
- Chorus: 45 types
- DSP: 239 types
- Harmony: 26 types

Sequencer:
- 16 tracks to record your own songs (15 Melody + 1 Chord)
- 5 User songs +10,000 Notes

Real Time Control: Pitch Bend Wheel

Auxiliary Jack: Phones/Output, DC in 16V, USB to host (MIDI In/Out), USB to device (optional storage devices), Sustain

Amplifier: 12W + 12W

Speakers: 12cm x 2 + 3cm x 2

Power Supply: PA-300 Adaptor (included)

Dimensions (W x D x H): 37.2 x 15.8 x 5.1 in. (945 x 402 x 130 mm)

Weight: 16.5 lbs (7.5kg)
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Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#267363 - 07/09/09 03:02 PM Re: Need lightweight synth w. good piano and E.P. sounds
ianmcnll Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/27/05
Posts: 10606
Loc: Cape Breton Island, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by genesis12:
Can you recommend a lightweight keyboard that has great piano and electric piano sounds? This will accompany my SD1.

Thanks for your input.

Gene


Just a thought...what price range are looking at?

You could be going anywhere from a GW8 to a Nord Electro3.

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 07-09-2009).]
_________________________
Yamaha Tyros4, Yamaha MS-60S Powered Monitors(2), Yamaha CS-01, Yamaha TQ-5, Yamaha PSR-S775.

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#267364 - 07/10/09 10:21 AM Re: Need lightweight synth w. good piano and E.P. sounds
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by miden:
Where the f#@k did that come from!!! I never said anything of the sort!!!


I guess the general spirit of 'lightening up' hasn't made it to Oz yet...

All I'm getting at, Dennis, is there is FAR more to linking two arrangers together than one of them having an NTA track. How do you deal with filtering PC#'s coming from the master (that might change styles, or patches, etc.)? How do you deal with triggering variations and fills, intros, endings, etc.?

I am curious... do you, at this point, actually run two arrangers from one keyboard yet? Or is it something that you would like to do, but haven't tried, yet? I have to confess, I've tried this in the past, and it's a total PITA. Even if you can get the NTA track to work, you still have to reach over to the secondary arranger for all Variation operations, sometimes they don't start together, or stop together, and you often need a computer between the two just to filter out controllers or PC#'s that do weird things to the styles...

All I was trying to point out is that an NTA track, by itself, isn't really all that useful. As to the GW8-L's lack of style editing, I have commented at length about that... The only way to edit styles is to turn them into SMF's, edit those, and turn back into styles. A terrible system, IMO. But, as I also said, for the VERY light price of the GW8, you get FAR more ROM than many similar priced arrangers with better MIDI implementations and onboard style header editing. I was just pointing out, at the low end of the price scale, it's all about compromise...

The main problem exists that each manufacturer implements arranger to arranger control (if they implement it at all) in a totally different fashion, and that most of the codes are hardwired. We need a Standard Arranger Code that would allow exactly what you want without the either major roadblocks for variation triggering, or current ultra basic NTA only transmission.

So.... which two arrangers have you linked together so far? I'd love to hear how well it worked for you.
_________________________
An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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#267365 - 07/10/09 01:09 PM Re: Need lightweight synth w. good piano and E.P. sounds
miden Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 3354
Loc: The World
Yes it worked rather well with an old E50 and a Yamaha S90es. Hitting the buttons was not that onerous, you could not do multiple quick changes but I could get by okay.

I never need to change anything else apart from variations, as all keyboard parts and tones came from the s90, and in fact sometimes all that came from the E50 was the drums.

The MOST important and most basic is an NTA and Roland for whatever dumb reason left it off. And no, the GW series are not the most budget, check out the pricing of some of the lower end Yamahas, and I believe even they can allow the arranger section to be played by an external keyboard.

This is like the time Roland released a new keyboard but reckoned no-one needed a sustain pedal socket.......so they left it off!!!! That was back in the early 90's I think.

And to claim the GW series are NOT arrangers (they are synths, according to Roland) so therefore do not qualify for NTA ability, OR patch changing. BUT they are being marketed as arrangers???

Only Roland. They sometimes do brilliant things, but then do really dumb things.

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#267366 - 07/10/09 03:34 PM Re: Need lightweight synth w. good piano and E.P. sounds
Diki Offline


Registered: 04/25/05
Posts: 14182
Loc: NW Florida
Quote:
Originally posted by miden:
Only Roland. They sometimes do brilliant things, but then do really dumb things.


Truer words were never spoken...

I did not realize that you were talking about triggering from a WS. You had mentioned the SD-1 in your post. Yes, triggering from a WS is usually a LOT easier, as on most TOTL WS's, you can configure the buttons and knobs to send whatever MIDI you need to. The things are DESIGNED for flexibility.

But arrangers rarely have ANY kind of button, knob and slider MIDI flexibility... Heck, half the time, they don't send anything at all, and the rest of the time, it is hardwired codes that you can't change. This is what I find so frustrating. Yes, I can control my G70 from my K2500 (possibly the MOST flexible WS ever made), but I can't control an S900 from my G70

The thing that strikes me is, if you have to have the GW-8 close enough to get at the controls, it's close enough to actually PLAY
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An arranger is just a tool. What matters is what you build with it..!

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