John, perhaps if the "tyre-kicker" provided a deposit, maybe $75, and if they purchase somewhere else the deposit is refunded, less a 15% surcharge.

Dennis

Trouble is, without a full manual from Ketron yet, just exactly how DO you provide much in the way of technical assistance?

That's a big can of worms you have kicked there, George, especially during Ketron's 'beta' program as they slowly keep changing the OS.

Interesting George...I do understand where you are comming from and you need to do whatever it is to run your business.

I bought my T2 and PA2XPRO before I knew Frank (or you)....I have never had a need to call the place of purchase for any help!

The manual on especially the PA2 is outstanding, and the forum is superb, and I mean superb. So no need for any contact with the dealer...(and the dealer would probably not be any help anyways. It is a brick and mortor store here in Ft. Wayne, IN.

So...bottem line is...If I thought I needed a lot of support from a dealer because the manual is poor and/or the forum is poor, (and/or the country distributor support is poor) I would probably buy something else no matter how good it sounded.

At this point in time...I think Ketron is in this category, as is Wersi.

I don't think either company cares much about the USA...and that's their choice.

Lee S.

Now you're getting it Lee. YES some companies don't give a flyin hoot about the US market for their arranger keyboards. Ketron and Wersi are clearly in this category. Roland is also on a fast track to making a nice comfy spot for themselves on that list too. Just give RolandUS a call about their arranger line and start asking some serious questions. You'll learn real fast that RolandUS has no interest in dealing with the arranger boards. Ask anything about the synths, V-drums, ect and they're tripping all over themselves to help you there.

I don't think Ketron or Wersi have interest in the US because well that simply means the US will demand more IMO regarding Western Styles. Ketron and Wersi have done their homework for the Euro market.., but even though the Ketron's DO sound good with many western styles.., some still aren't all the way there and have an obvious Euro flavor to them.

And personally, I think the US Ketron dealers should tell Ketron Italy EXACTLY where to put their MAP, and put the same markup on it they do for all other arrangers. Then, when sales dry up to a Gobi Desert-like condition, perhaps Ketron will lower the wholesale price to where it is competitive. What they are basically asking is for their DEALERS to suffer because of their incompetence.

Asking a Ketron dealer to steer customers to a product they will make LESS money on than another product they have in stock is like asking you to shoot yourself in the head...

Are they doing this in the US only, or are their margins slimmer worldwide?

Many companies as well as boutique style manufacturers typically have very small marks on certain products in their lineup. The standard dealer "B" mark often doesn't apply so Ketron with their Audya dealer pricing isn't unusual (the Korg Oasys had a similar price structure when it was introduced). Its up to the dealer to decide whether or not he or she should carry that product and if it warrants taking up space on their sales floor. If George felt the MAP to dealer cost difference was too minimal he shouldn't have ordered the Audya in the first place.

There are many customers who will merely use a dealer for their knowledge or to see a product in person only to order it afterwards via online because someone else made them a better deal. There really is no way to stop this from happening and as a dealer one hopes the prospective customer is being sincere in their inquiry and will value dealer support after the sale. Having two prices for the same product simply makes the customer wonder why and in the end it will hurt the dealer more than help.

When I've sold products with marginal profit I did so knowing full well it was more of a convenience for my clientele and definitely not going to make me rich. Sometime just having that product in will help sell many lower priced products for the dealer and I'm sure that may be the case in George's situation. Customers may come to see the Audya only to buy a Tyros 3 or PAX2 when they see and hear them all in person. The fact is most people wouldn't purchase and Audya even if it were $4,000, not because it's not worth the money, but because keyboards in excess of $3,000 simply don't sell well. Arranger keyboards are a niche market and the bulk of arranger sales are lower end PSR's to the home market. TOTL arranger clientele are few and far between and while many people on Synthzone can easily voice their opinion of TOTL products, many people who do bash these products don't actually own an instrument that costs in excess of $4,000 so an Audya would never be a consideration for them. Still people don't seem to have a problem voicing there disdain for a product they'd never actually afford which seems odd to me.

Ensnareyou,
All the years I sold Solton and Ketron during the Lou and Aldo Bell/Solton years, before CMC Distributors bought them about 3 years ago, the "B" Discount structure was on all the models they sold. Although some of the models were more expensive than the competition, the margins a dealer could make were equal to all other manufactures.
It's only been in the past year that the new Distributor and or Ketron Italy have changed all the margins. This is what I'm complaining about. To make you, the customers feel like the product is not to expensive compared to all the others, the dealer selling the product is the one loosing. I understand the customer is getting a lower price, but I also think the manufacturer is still making exactly what he needs to make, and perhaps the distributor is making exactly what they need to make, but the dealer selling to the customer is not making a margin needed at such a high cost for the goods.
I agree, that if the pricing is not right that just don't buy it, but I also serve the Southern California musicians who can't find these products anywhere else. If Kaye's Music Scene doesn't sell it, Ketron would probably have a hard time finding some other store to sell their products.
My feeling is that Ketron Italy, even though they are a small company still needs to sell their products world wide and if other dealers feel as I do, they might just not have enough dealers to survive the recession.


------------------
George Kaye
Kaye's Music Scene
Reseda, California
818-881-5566
www.kayesmusicscene.com

Give 'm Hell George!!

If I were you (and I'm not) I would take orders only, no stock. If someone wants one bad enough make it "Cash and carry" see 'ya later!! I know that's not you!! But sometimes you just have to do whats right for you!

George....
All of us want you and all dealers who supply us with equipment to make a fair profit. I am appalled at the what has happened to many automotive franchises...especially Chrysler...where the dealers invested heavily per the manufacturer's mandates...only to be dropped as a franchise like it was no big deal.

I sincerely hope there is no correlation between the Chrysler scenerio and how the musical equipment manufacturers are operating.

Eddie

I

I feel that if Ketron force you to make a lower profit on their line than other lines, they should stock the Audya (one unit) in your store gratis. Then, WHEN you make the sale, you pay them at that point. There are a tiny handful of dealers in the US anyway, it would not break Ketron. But it WOULD take the sting out of having to BUY an Audya, just to show it at the inflated price they have managed to bring it out at, and force you to take a lower margin.

With the economy the way it is, who in their right minds will sell a customer an Audya, if he could sell a T3 and make more profit? And cost their customer less, to boot? It seems the predominant buyers of Audya's are already Ketron owners. Who, apparently, are the world's least demanding arranger user (if you read how outraged they get when the Audya's shortcomings are talked about). You shouldn't actually NEED one in stock to sell it to them...

And, Ensnareyou... So you have to actually be able to AFFORD a Picasso, before you can decide (and post about) whether you like him or not?