This afternoon I had what looked like an average 50th aniversary party. When I got there, it was for 200+ people. I have to say the little compact really kicked ass. There were 3 DJ's there as guests and they were amazed by it. They all said that I more than covered the room. I think I could have sold it to one of the guys. The party rocked, and I got an extra half hour out of it and it was a 4 hour party. I don't think I'd use it for anything larger, but it sure did the job today.

Joe

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Songman55
Joe Ayala

Sounds like its really working out well for you...

How do you think a quartet of keyboard, bass, drums and a sax/clarinet/flute guy-all of whom sing would sound?

Would it overwhelm it?

Would it be loud enough for a fairly large ballroom?

Thanks-



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Bill in Dayton

Few arranger players have any idea of just how loud a REAL drummer is, let alone on amplified by a PA!
Does anyone honestly think that a 120w PA (total) could even get just the drums up to live level, let alone the rest of the band? A kick drum acoustically can put out more than 100w of sound energy. Stick your head next to one if you don't believe me!

Once again, don't get me wrong. For what it is SUPPOSED to do, it seems a great (if pricey) product. And if you have a drummer with no mikes, playing brushes for cocktail volume music, it might get the rest of the band, as long as the bassist and guitarist had their own amps and didn't need to be in the PA. Then you are only amping the keys and vocals (what it is designed for).

But please! Bose haven't altered the laws of physics..! It will only go so loud before distortion kicks in (pun intended ), and real drums are already louder than it could go.

What wattage are you already using for the PA for the ballroom? Would 100w do?

Oh yes, on this one I agree with Diki... The SPL's coming from the usual drummers kick drum mic are huge...

But then I DONT think the L1 Compact is for that, I think it is for the solo performer OR someone like one of us on the SZ using arrangers/keyboard backing tracks where there is some degree of control of the lower frequencies.

Personally I will be seriously checking out a pair of these when they hit Australia, sometime this month.

Dennis

I'm running the whole band through the L1 and it kills...We have way more headroom than we need...

If I got this, I need to know if it'll handle my quartet needs or do I need to have a different system for those gigs?

Remember, we play blue haired, ballroom dance stuff. Yes, we get fairly loud for this type of crowd, but its close to a rock band output...

The drums have a kick drum, set very low and an overhead....Bass player goes direct into the Bose base unit...My keys go into the tone module as do all our vocals and the horn...



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Bill in Dayton

The only caution I would have Bill is, as you would know, the kick which has the most potential for "blowing" this system.Be very careful as I think it is only an 8" sub speaker in that box/s.

Knowing Bose it will more than likely have quite generous excursion limits, but no speaker is immune to , shall we say, "over-zealous" drummers

As long as the kick level is kept down, maybe even run a limiter (built-in on the Tonematch???) across just the kick mic's line. That would give even more protection.

If this thing sounds anything like the L1, I can see why you would want to run the band. GREAT live sound.

Dennis

Well if it IS anything like the L1 I imagine it would be almost impossible to blow any speaker in the system as it would merely go into compression and essentially shut down if the sound got too loud.

Bill, I'm curious as to why you're asking such a question here and not on the Bose Forum?



[This message has been edited by hellboy44 (edited 06-09-2009).]

Dennis-Good ideas...I should add we already have the kick drum level very low...we're not looking for definition so much as a presence, if you will.

Hellboy-Mostly hadn't got to it...I check the SZ a few times every day, the BOSE forums, not nearly as often. If this became a serious consideration, I certainly would jump on there and get some feedback, plus-I'd probably want to talk to the people at Bose directly...

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Bill in Dayton

I believe one of the Compacts would handle what you describe. I know two would.
I played an anniversary party Saturday night with a couple hundred people. After four hours of 50's music, the "usual suspects" wanted Brick House and Electric Slide, so I dialed them up on the laptop for the last two songs. You could "feel" the kick drum and bass guitar. I had the Compacts set at 12 o'clock and the mixer barely cracked. The sound was amazing. I can't imagine a live drummer generating more kick without breaking a foot bone or two. And yes, I've played with some of the best live drummers around. And with some of the loudest. Not necessarily the same ones.
Now, I have a REALLY big party for July 4th, with up to 20,000 people, some indoors some outside. I plan to take at least two of the big L1s for inside, and then route the sound outside as well. I will have on hand 3 L1s and 2 Compacts. After I see the venue, I'll decide what to use and where to place them.
BTW, I am speaking from experience in using them myself, in live situations, not trying to interpret numbers and guessing what they mean.
I feel the Compacts will handle up to a couple hundred people, as a general rule.
Hope this helps,
DonM

Ah, the wisdom of experience. Thank you Don.

There is an unbelievable difference between the controlled and limited dynamics of a CD (or mp3) and the wild dynamics that a live drummer can produce. Without careful compression and limiting, a drummer can easily blow a low powered rig set up for his early evening volume levels with some over enthusiastic end of the night shenanigans!

And while the L1 system pumps out about...



the Compact is rated at about 150w. Total. Draw your own conclusions. But the 'voice of experience' ought to at least know the difference between a solid sound from a CD, and getting the same from a live drummer...

Oh NO! All these years and I still can't tell the difference! I'll just sell all my gear and quit. I'm too stupid to know what I hear with my own ears
I can't believe I've LOWERED myself AGAIN to respond to conjecture from those who have not used or even heard the gear in question.
DonM

Don,

What do you expect? Remember the advice you gave me about the pig?

Tom

I don't know if that was directed at me Don, but I have owned an L1, I own a Bose 502a and 502b system now and I will be probably getting a pair of the compacts.

Without being too presumptious, I dont think Diki was having a dig at you, just re-emphasising the huge difference between a recorded backing track / song, arranger keyboards and a fully live drum kit. And that caution is needed with running a live band through the system.

I have also run PA for all my live bands over the years. I have a reasonable idea of what happens.

I am aware that the Boses systems use excellent sound control systems, but in my view NO sound system is immune from those "moments" and unfortunately as you would know, it only takes a second of a big transient (like what you would get from a kick drum hit way too hard out of excitement or error) to blow a speaker.

I was not saying they could not do it, just that perhaps Bill might want to run a limiter over the kick drums input. That was all.

And Bose are not the cheapest when it comes to repairs. I know, I had to have an amp power supply replaced on the L1, cost me just over $365.

Dennis

Diki, I was going to post this earlier, but I decided not to. I thought about it again and this statement is really against my better judgment......so I shouldn't really write it, but I am.............

Diki we know you are smarter than everyone here and you've proved it time and time again. Please show a little restraint when it comes to showing us how much more than us you really know. Signed dumb and stupid from the the Northeast.

Steve, please speak for yourself "smarter then everyone here"? dikis bravado has ruined this forum, & many people have left because of it. Let's call a spade a spade shall we? Talk is very cheap, I'm not impressed by Mr know it alls & I don't hesitate to think anyone here is either don't be fooled.




[This message has been edited by John DiLeo (edited 06-09-2009).]

Dennis, not at you at all, my friend!
Of course a bass drum kick can overdrive a speaker, but as it was described, they don't have the BD very loud. In fact it is subdued.
Under those circumstances, I remain convinced that the Compact would do a good job for them. I assure you the Compact will go far louder than live drum level.
It's not that I don't welcome anyone's opinion, or criticism of any of my opinions, but there is a way to say things without sarcasm and personal digs. Adding a smiley face doesn't make it a lot better.
I not only know how loud drummers can be, I PLAYED drums in a rock and roll band for several years in college.
I'm just tired of the constant "I'm so smart and everyone else is stupid" attitude, and I'm tired of turning the other cheek.
The best forum on the internet has been decimated by this and I hope it's not too late to do something about it.
DonM

Okay Don, thanks m8...understand. NP

Dennis

Oh, so when Dennis says the same thing as me, you are all happy to hear it. Just not from me... well OK, then.

Enjoy your Compacts. Let us know how using them as a band PA turned out. What DOES the warranty cover, anyway? I am SURE that one of you recommending it as OK for this purpose will reimburse any member who DOES blow up their Compact putting a full band through it on your recommendation, won't you..?

Maybe THAT is why people are leaving this forum..? Unrealistic advice from people too dogmatic about the correctness of THEIR choice of gear to even acknowledge that someone else MIGHT have a different set of criteria.

You see, if the 'voice of experience' wants to live up to his claim, you would have to put a band at a decent level through a Bose Compact FIRST before you recommended it to others (and do it loud!). I don't see any evidence that anyone has actually DONE this yet....

Oh, but you are SURE it works, aren't you? Me, I'd rather get advice from someone that has done it, not someone who THINKS it could be done (unless he's willing to buy me a new Compact if it can't).

Anyway, make up your mind. Either Dennis is wrong, too, or PERHAPS there's something to what I caution. And if warning people that they might blow their gear up is a bad thing on this forum, you might consider exactly WHO is ruining this forum...

I've noticed with about 20 gigs under my belt with the Bose compact that now the joints of the extension poles are getting easier to detach each piece.
Also I'm noticing that in bad acoustical rooms in the past the Bose compact is sounding awesome....I couldn't be happier with this unit.

I actually agree with you up to a point Diki.

Caution is always a good thing when it comes to gear and it's care, maintenance, and in particular USE. I too also see no evidence that a full band (or a consistently loud & forceful drummer) has been put through a compact (even a pair of compacts) by anyone on the boards who currently has one, but OTOH I'm not sure that's exactly what is being proposed.

I don't think that Don or the others are saying the Compact can handle above and beyond what it is designed to do.
I think they're all impressed with, (given the size, specs and design intentions) the fact that the compact is going above and beyond what is reasonably expected of it.

Additionally, it's clear to me by their posts, we're really talking about NH gigs and/or music that is not needing to be amplified to a high degree - no Metal (Heavy, Death or otherwise), no Top 40/Hip Hop/RnB....just Classic Hits/Ballroom/Latin/Easy Listening/Sing Along/Ballads as far as I can see.
It seems this exuberance is really due to "new gear" performing well or better than expected, and people being (maybe a little overly) Happy with that. I can empathise, because I think we've all been there - done that.

In regards to you ruining the forum Diki, I don't think you're doing it single handedly, but I think you're doing the Lion's share of it.

I mean, does anybody really think Gary's leaving was not almost wholly and solely due to your overly arrogant and hostile attitude?

Do I also need to remind you of OUR last ridiculous confrontation?

DonM, I'd be interested in learning how you're going to chain the L1 with the Compact.
Ciao,
Jerry

Jerry, I probably won't chain them together. I'll use a mixer with two outputs to two L1s and two outputs to the Compacts. Maybe even two mixers for this one occasion.
DonM

Good idea Don & much better control....have fun!

Thanks Don.

Don,
Is this venue you are playing a public event? If so let me know.

Jay R

Interesting points, hellboy.

The problem seems to be, do I avoid conflict, and let people state things that are either flat out incorrect, or so slanted to their choice of equipment they can make claims that can't be borne out, or do I post alternative viewpoints that immediately gets a hostile response. Takes two to get a fight going, where I come from!

Seems everybody wants THEIR viewpoint aired. Just not mine. Forgive me for being just as adamant about my viewpoint as they are at theirs. Take this thread. Dennis and yourself BOTH see the point I am trying to make (to very hostile reception by the Bose crowd), but, to be honest, neither of you posted it until I already had, and absorbed the roasting from those that can't see beyond their own personal needs.

Maybe, when unpopular opinions NEED to be said, why don't you jump in first, and then it won't be ME 'ruining the forum' (which apparently is 'code' for 'disagreeing with me' ), and you can adopt that mantle for a while...?

Jay R. It is a public even, in Benton, Arkansas. Joe Lee Richards set it up. Dean Mathis will be going with me. He'll be playing Steel, Fiddle, keyboard and singing also.
It is the city of Benton's Fourth of July celebration, complete with fireworks.
DonM

Please cite reference.


--Mac

Diki, it's not WHAT you say, but the WAY that you say it.


(Isn't that a song?)

Trust me on this one, hellboy. Say anything detrimental about the Bose, it doesn't MATTER how you say it...

If you read this thread from top to bottom, I think you would have to be seriously paranoid to find any real vitriol on this thread until this:


(This from a guy that HASN'T used or heard the gear in question the way it was suggested.)

And I'm the one screwing up this forum?

THIS is where the tone went downhill. This wasn't just HOW he said it. It was WHAT he said. If someone can't hear about that there's a huge difference between a kick on a CD and a live drummer hitting it without this tirade of pettiness, trust me, this forum is already f*cked up...

Ahhh.... I see. It's not what you say, it's HOW you say it

In this instance (and in this thread) I agree with you Diki - hell even I was jumped upon by hammer in another Bose Compact related thread. (Obviously some people around here STILL don't know I'm a Bose supporter - an objective one.

But I stand by what I said re ruining the forum. It's not just in this thread alone.

Ditto.

Maybe I'm not smarter than everyone here. Maybe I'm the stupid one for warning about running a live drummer through a 100w acoustic guitarist's mini PA. (guess hellboy and Dennis are pretty dumb too?).

In the spirit of the earlier post, perhaps I shouldn't say this... but no, I''ll go ahead and say it anyway

Yes, I think that perhaps you ARE dumber than a plank. I don't have to be a 'know it all' I simply have to know a bit more than this idiotic idea. Not exactly a very high bar...

We're even and I'll end it there, otherwise we know where it will go.

Okay Don, Thanks./ I thought it might be in S'port. I bet y'all will knock em out!

Jay R

I finally had a chance to hear the Bose compact at a Wedding last night 4pc band with two Bose compact units. All I can say is WOW, WOW, WOW! crystal clear vocals & the overall music sound just enveloped the whole room approx 125pp without being intrusive to our conversations at the table. We were 3 tables away from the stage.
I'm sold, will be looking to purchase one very soon.

Wow I can't begin to list the myriad of inventions and or discoveries if one depended on someone else to get there first and advise. That's playing life a little too safe.........

I rather seek advice from those who have the confidence to just KNOW something can be done without seeking approval or advice or waiting to seek someone who has already tried it. SOMEONE Had to be the first achiever, the early adopter. They didn't seek advice...they just DID.

Just look at how successful Karaoke is!! No one thought that would replace professional entertainers.........Someone had to be the first..LOL


I say Go for it.....Run the drums through a Compact System..if it works.... Great.. If not no harm no foul....They are warrantied and Bose has EXCELLENT customer service.

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 06-14-2009).]

Does anyone know if the Compact has a "shut down mode" if the signal is too loud?

I can tell you the L1 Model 2 does!

I recently set up a Packlite (to run 4 B1 bass bins) as we recently had a large(ish) room to "light up" with a dancefloor packed with dancers, and, running late, I set up the 4 bass bins, specifically the Packlite (the extra amp) wrongly.
My only defense is we WERE very late and it was a first time setup. More fool me!

Anyway, my point is:

The L1 shut down when we tried to go either too loud with the master volume, or when a loud specific (bass) note came through. It was momentarily embarassing for us (though the crowd said they never really heard anything go astray) but what happens is basically all bass "dies" and what you're left with is what sounds like a tinny, Transistor Radio effect.

Even so, the sound was full through 4 bass bins(!) and I've been told I was running at (barely) 50% of what I was capable of with 4 bins!! I've since run the system with both sets of bass bins (separately) and everything is still as smooth as butter!

My conclusion: It's practically impossible to damage the system by running too loud a signal through it - it just goes into compression and protects itself.


I find it VERY hard to believe the Compact won't do the same thing.

The Compact does have a very effective limiting circuitry, just as the L1 does. I think it would be impossible to damage it by too hot an input.
I haven't tried any really big jobs yet, but from experience I know it will handle up to a couple hundred people with no strain. It won't make your ears bleed, as will some of the more conventional sound systems can, but that's not what I'm looking for, and that's not what it's designed for.
DonM

How dissappointing!! Sorry Don couldn't resist that. This is what happens when it's a slow day at the office.

I used it last night at a wedding and the dance floor was filled all evening. I couldn't be happier. I did a small NH this afternoon with my dance troupe and there was enough presence so the dancers could feel the music, yet it was not loud at all.

Joe

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Songman55
Joe Ayala

Joe the Bose compact has definitly proved itself gig worthy in many scenarios for sure....best piece of gear I've purchased all year!

For those that HAVE pushed the Compact into compression...

Firstly, is there an 'Overload' light, so you can TELL if the compression/limiting circuitry has kicked in, and what does it sound like? Is it easy to hear, or well disguised?

Even if you can't blow up your Compact, having a limiter effectively 'duck' your signal every time the kick (or whatever else is too hot) hits can't be that good for your sound, can it?