http://www.analysis-plus.com/pro_guitarinstrument.html


I know most SZ folks will dismiss this as impractical, but maybe their is someone here that spends foolishly..

I am thinking ..I will try the $10 per foot cables...not sure about the $30 a foot cables..

I know for some here the cables would be worth more than your keyboard..

http://www.analysis-plus.com/pro_ArtistKeyboard.html

[This message has been edited by Fran Carango (edited 05-22-2009).]

. .. ...

I may spend more on a pair of cables than you will spend on your Bose Compact..

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"BLACK OVAL - Our best flex and feel cable. It's ROHS compliant, completely green cable that sounds as good as it feels. This cable has 20 gauge conductors, a conductive sheath to eliminate microphonics, an oval center conductor with a hollow oval return. Available with straight or 90 degree mono plugs

The cable is made in the USA, the connectors are made in the USA, the packaging is designed and made in the USA, the catalog and all paper are printed in the USA. I don't think you can say this about most products."".<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

It's GREEN and made 100% in the USA....

I know who their intended market is...the PC Police!!! Some gullible people will pay more for Green and "made in the USA".

Others will realize it's now a world economy and plants actually NEED lots of CO2 to create Oxygen.

I am over "Green" I am over paying disposal fee for oil that will be resold at a profit..

I am over recycling when every Disposal company worth their business acumen has been separating trash and reselling "valuable" recyclables for 50 years, but now making Joe homeowner to do their jobs at additional profit!!

Glad to now live in free South Carolina where none of this stuff has taken hold. No auto or smog inspections, no mandatory recycling,

No deposit on bottles and recycling fees on cans.....
Give me dirty old Global Warming ignoring China made Quantum cables....LOL

[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 05-22-2009).]

The whole green thing drives me nuts. I suppose the metal that is used in those cables is magically conjured up by the 'metal wizard' and not mined by using great big diesel powered trucks spewing black exhaust, and the coating is made in an equally mystical way. And the machines that crank out the metal plugs run on rain water collected from the roof of the plant. Don't get me wrong, I am all for cleaning up our act but using these ridiculous coined phrases that are meaningless is beyond me.

So back to the topic at hand:
I'm thinking of running everything wireless so I have no cables at all.

[This message has been edited by WDMcM (edited 05-22-2009).]

I remember a very well publicised test that was done a few years ago.

Basically 3 audiophiles guys where blindfolded and they where asked to listen to the same song over and over again a number of times.

They where asked to try identify at what point where they listen to the song through wire coat hangers connected to the speakers, and when they where listing to pro end Gold cables.

The outcome of the tests proved that nobody could tell the difference between top of the range gold cables and wire coat hangers.

So really the way I look at it, the only quality you should be looking for is a well shielded cable. Anything else is an utter waste of money.

I'm not sure I would want to tote wire coathangers around to wire up my rig, there, James!

Wouldn't it have been a more useful test to see if they could hear the difference blindfolded between CHEAP cables and expensive ones?

Sometimes these guys are dumber than they think they are...

BTW, guitar cables regularly handle signals that are only a TINY fraction of the strength of our line level keyboard outputs.

They need to be amplified MASSIVELY.

Any shielding problems, wiring inconsistencies and impedance irregularities are going to be massively amplified, too... Plus, of course, a guitar cord dangles out the back of a guitar and gets walked about, stepped on, jiggled, twisted around, just from the normal motions of playing the damn thing! (and don't get me started about showmanship pyrotechnics!).

Don't laugh at these things until you have walked a mile in THEIR shoes. Nobody is trying to sell an ARRANGER cable at those prices! Not even Ketron!

http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/03/audiophiles-cant-tell-the-difference-between-monster-cable-and/

You know, guys, you really ought to read this stuff before you quote it...

This article was comparing SPEAKER cables. That don't even HAVE shields. And comparing them to a pair of stiff SOLID metal wires. That can't be bent and coiled up, etc..

We have been talking about SIGNAL cables here and other threads.

Might as well compare apples to frogs...

But of course, if it helps you to feel superior to quote something with absolutely no relation to what everyone is talking about, have at it... Being relevant is SO overrated.

Right my bad...speaker cables don't carry signal....no relation... oh and yes it's all about the gold plated shielding.....Give it a break man..,,

You run right out there and spend a nigh's pay on a "signal wire" I am sure someone who owns a very large boat will thank you for it...


[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 05-22-2009).]

Kingfrog, I look forward to pictures of your rig wired up with coathangers...

As unimportant as they all are, no doubt you have the absolute cheapest cables that money can buy. No? So there IS some kind of difference? I'm sure Mr. Hosa owes you a dept of gratitude, too...

And, just to explain it for the slow and confused... Speaker cables carry high level signals. Enough to run a heater! Using a solid wire is MUCH better at the job, under most circumstances, if the gauge is sufficient to not melt However, of course, you can't coil it, pack it, easily connect it, avoid getting electrocuted by it (no shield on a coathanger).... but it'll conduct the hell out of electricity

So, how well a braided, flexible cord carries current compared to a thick solid wire to the point of indistinguishableness is pretty damn good... The bullshit 'test' you brought up never bothers to see if these 'experts' were capable of distinguishing the expensive cables to cheap ones, which is the REAL test, as few (other than Kingfrog, I guess ) are ever going to wire up their rig with coathangers.

In fact, perhaps you ought to see whether you can tell the difference between ANYTHING before you criticize anybody. I guarantee, you couldn't tell the difference between whatever cables you have now, and those that are cheaper. So what's YOUR reason for spending more than you need?

I can safely say you completely missed the point on that one

If the Audiophiles could not hear any difference in sound quality between pro end cables and wire coat hangers, then why on earth would you sink huge money into cables.

The smart man will simply buy a cable that feels heavy enough to last and shielded enough for the job at hand.

Regards.
James.

The most important thing is to stay away from audio/patch cables that have molded end plugs.

Monster cables are a rip-off...there are plenty of much cheaper cables capable of equal performance and durability.

Ian

As my mother would say " a fool and his money are soon parted." I can hardly believe that people buy into the monster cable hype. Wire is wire. I've made cables from ends purchased at Radio Shack and speaker wire. They work just fine.

There could be some shielding issues in metro areas where there are radio stations nearby but for the most part wire is wire.

Tom

I DON'T spend more than I need. I was wired up for years with HOSA snakes and they were fine except they don;t take to constant repatching and yes they have molded ends. No need for anything more then. Now I don;t use snakes anymore in the signal path because 16 lines of audio go to the PC via the XS firewire and the Tyros is patched into the XS via Quantum cables. Don't need balanced cables and I had an extra deep and isolated ground for the room I use when I had this house built. My rig is noise free and I don't use any isolating transformers.

Keyboard line levels are not an issue with any decent off the shelf cables, especially less than 6' runs. In fact neither the Motif or Tyros has balanced TRS outputs to my knowledge. Apparently there there really is no need for them in any practical application on stage and in studio. \

All this cable "hocus pocus" is focused on the gullible and those who are too "smart" for their pocketbooks. There aren't too many items that can easily command a 70% profit margin at the retail level, so why not squeeze a little more from boring old cables?

Apparently there are plenty of suckers who will buy them and "hear" the difference.

Ok then, how about this one:

Just for the sake of argument, let's assume that these Very Expensive cables are indeed worth every cent, and that they do "provide a much broader spectrum" (I suddenly crave for a balony sandwich... but let's move on).

Most of us play gigs in rooms that were never designed to make music sound real good, using amplifiers and speakers that are "mediocre" at best (I have NEVER heard a PA system that sounded REALLY good)

I guess what I'm trying to get across here, is no matter what cable you use, you will have NO use of high-end cable unless you use it in a high-end studio environment, for recording-to-master productions. For your gig, even the wire coathangers would do.

------------------
- THE DUTCH KEYBOARD FORUM
http://www.keyboardforum.nl
Happy owner of a Roland E-80 V2

When is anyone going to admit a difference in needs (or requirements) between simple, short length signal cables for line level gear, and longer run cables for very low level signals (like guitar cords, which is where Monster and other musician oriented cables are primarily marketed)..? If you feel like spending a fortune on cables that outperform your needs, have at it. I've already stated what I use (inexpensive Fender cables for live use), so don't lump me in with this bull.

But it seems, in your zeal to condemn ALL premium cables as unnecessary, some very basic facts are being ignored. There are cables that cost $5. There are cables that cost $25. There are cables that cost $100. There are cables that cost more. Do you use the $5 cables? No? Then there IS a difference. How much is a case of diminishing returns. And that, my friends, is a sliding scale. Not the absolute you are trying to make out. I happen to agree that super high priced 'audiophile' cables aren't really necessary. Unless, of course, you just dropped $100,000 on a sound system, then what does it matter?

There are people on this forum that drop $3000+ on an arranger when they can't even PLAY... A few hundred on a speaker cable doesn't seem so stupid, any more!

Look James, I think YOU missed the point, not me. You CAN'T use coathangers to wire up a sound system (if you could, they would be the best choice for speakers - you'd still have to shield them if they were for signal). You HAVE to use cables. So, the test should be, can you tell the difference between CABLES. Go out and find consistent tests where audiophiles CAN'T tell the difference between cheap cables and more expensive ones. THEN you'd actually have a point. Even Kingfrog doesn't use coathangers

Look, there's a lot of bullsh*t in the marketing of cables. But there IS also a core of truth. Better quality cables DO make a difference. Whether you need that difference (or can hear it) is up to you. Buy the $5 cables... Buy the $25 cables if you hear the difference. Heck, buy the $100 cables if you hear the difference. But don't come here and spout this rubbish that ALL cables are the same (no better than coathangers) unless you actually DO have the $5 cables (or coathangers!)....

Otherwise, to one degree or another, you are all buying into the same premise. That more money means a better product. Look at what you are playing, for Pete's sake!

Diki

You are the one that mentioned about playing with coat hangers, so I do think you are not getting the point behind the example given.

The point is........

Experts can not tell the difference between the sound quality of expensive cables with the best wire in them from wire only suitable for coat hangers.

So when buying a cable, buy a shielded one heavy enough for your needs and one that you feel won't let you down.

Don't get sucked up into the marketing hype and bull from the likes of Monster Cable.

James.

No James... the point is that experts CAN tell the difference between expensive cables, and cheap cables. Unless you ARE going to use coathangers, what is the POINT of the test?

BTW, speaker cables are NOT shielded. Ever notice that? With your expertize, I am shocked that you haven't made the connection that that was a test of SPEAKER CABLES. Doh! NOT signal cables. You aren't trying to tell me they are all the same?

Basically, you just took a test about apples, and extrapolated it to oranges. A dangerous habit, James... There are some that can't tell the difference between Garritan Personal Orchestra, and Vienna Instruments Symphonic Cube Extended. Does that mean that there IS no difference? You are out of a job if that's the case!

There are test after test of double blind listening, where these poor maligned 'experts' COULD tell the difference between cheap cables and better ones. Even between MOTL cables and TOTL ones. But instead, everyone focuses on this bullsh*t stunt and ignores the underlying truth. Unless you are going to wire your studio with coathangers (which is nonsense for signal needs, anyway), there IS a difference between cables.

A logical fallacy is when you use unrelated facts to try and extrapolate a greater truth. And there is no greater logical fallacy than this test. The ONLY thing you can extrapolate from this test is the exact conditions of the test... 'experts' can't tell the difference between high priced SPEAKER wire with solid wire coathangers (which are actually a very good choice for the job, if you discount their impracticality).

But once you acknowledge that they CAN tell the difference between expensive and inexpensive cables, the whole point you are trying to make goes bye bye...

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 05-23-2009).]

I will buy the more expensive cables because of the quality but also because they carry a "lifetime" warranty. Sure they cost you more BUT they are without a doubt quality made and also heavily shielded and will last you a "lifetime" to boot. Go ahead and pay 10 bucks for a "pair" of 10' cables and you may (over a lifetime) actually end up paying MORE for your cheaply made and possibly minimally shielded cable(s) by having to possibly buy many, many pairs over your lifetime because, as it has already been stated, they're cheap right? - than I would have for my more expensive "quality made" and 'lifetime guaranteed' cable(s). Chew on that for a while and don't forget the Pepto-Bismol once you've swallowed!

Now that's not to say you can't get a "good deal" (price) on quality made, heavily shielded cables if you shop around. Try to get ones with a lifetime warranty though, if at all possible.

PS: I wouldn't necessarily be buying the more expensive cables if they didn't carry that "lifetime warranty" that comes with them. Since they do, I am getting two benefits in the process: quality gold plated, heavily shielded cable(s), and a lifetime free replacement warranty if perchance they get damaged accidentally for whatever reason. Which translates into piece of mind when you think about it.

To each his or her own I suppose.. BTW, I'm not calling any of you guys 'gals' when I say "her". There are a few women that frequent this forum as you well know, so don't think I am equating people who buy cheaply made cables to wimps or girls okay? I'll leave it at that... [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/biggrin.gif[/img]

Have a great Memorial Day everyone! [img]http://www.synthzone.com/ubbs/cool.gif[/img]

All the best,
Mike

Have you even read the article ?.

There's no argument here. A test was completed and a result was found that showed they could not tell the difference between coat hanger wire and top of the line speaker cables which are being sold as something that greatly improves audio quality that you can hear in detail.

End of story mate regardless of what type of spin you want to throw on this. The results final and your the only one who has a problem with this for some strange reason.

Regards.
James.

I've got no argument with the test whatsoever. Got that? I believe it.

All I'm incensed about is the extrapolation of it to things that are utterly unrelated. The whole premise seems to be, because on this ONE test, the 'experts' couldn't tell the difference, ALL other higher priced cables (in which many are including pricier cables that are a FRACTION of those speaker cables' prices) are equally indistinguishable. Whether speaker, signal, whatever.

This is demonstrably NOT TRUE.

That's all I'm trying to point out.

I think I will take my tip money tonight...and buy a pair of "Yellow Ovals"..

One thing for sure, they won't degrade the quality of the sound....and I have plenty of moola...

Yes, you and me both...it's an awful burden, ain't it?



[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 05-23-2009).]

I'm going to talk to my local dry cleaners... see if they can rewire my studio for me!

Perhaps you Con-Duit yourself? It would be a great place to hang out.

Wire you taking me to the cleaners?

I like my humor dry...

As long as you don't get de-pressed.

Hi Diki.

I have no interest in trying to defend something that's already widely accepted. I don't see why I have to either, it's not my problem you don't see the reasoning behind the test.

The article above is not the one I was referring to either, although it does not matter since the test and the results where the same. Clearly it just inspired someone to copy the test.

Anyway... I'll leave it at that. Believe what you like, but don't be a sucker and goggle the subject of high quality cables versus unbranded.

Monster Cables are all hype, and their digital cables are even worse. They even make claims of smoother sound. Digital is digital.

Regards.
James.

Just curious, James, but where do YOU draw the line on cables? Is there a level below where you won't go? And is there someone, somewhere trying to tell you that they can't tell the difference between what YOU chose and those that are cheaper?

Look, we have got all turned around. I also agree that 'audiophile', super high end, super expensive cables are a load of marketing codswallop. Then again, I don't see the point of a 200mph supercar in a country with a 70mph speed limit either! I payed little more for my two pair of Monster Cables than any other equivalent (they were on sale) and they have worked flawlessly ever since. I wouldn't have bought them at full price, but I buy very little at full price, anyway!

I'm sorry that this is turning into an argument. I believe we feel similarly in many ways. Audiophile cables ARE a ripoff. I don't count Monster in that range though. There are cables that cost an order of magnitude more than they do! But there are people that will pay ten grand for an amp, thirty grand for speakers. Heck, they'll pay millions for a house FAR larger than they need. That's just human nature.

Given that there are JUST as well documented tests where listeners CAN tell the difference between cables of different quality, the only thing left is to balance your needs against your budget. I do work for major labels, sometimes at home, sometimes in large facilities (sometimes in bedroom studios!), and the LAST thing any studio wants to do is waste time while they track down a tiny buzz to your cheap cables... Time is money.

If your needs are less critical than this, pick anything you like. But be prepared to sit and nod patiently while someone tells you that, however little you payed for them, you could have done it for less. No doubt you COULD have. Apparently, you didn't want to, though

I already said all this above. A cable heavy (core gauge) enough for the task at hand, good build and one that's shielded enough for your needs or insulation well enough depending on the indented use.

It does not need to carry a brand name, and it certainly does not need to say Gold on it anywhere.



The level I won't go below is anything that does not meet the needs listed above.



If I where to read between the lines I'd say that you where trying to have a little dig at me there. I'm not trying to tell you what to do Diki, I'm simply trying to open your mind to the idea of the tests that where completed with low grade wire compared to Gold standard premium cables.



When you get to the stage where you have to use an oscilloscope to show an image of sound on a screen thrown over huge distances like Monster do to prove your cables are superior they have already lost the argument.

The human ear will simply not heard half the extreme cases these guys through out there. Heck most people can't even tell the difference between a high quality mp3 and a wave file.



There are many reasons why noise can get into lines but audio cables are way down at the bottom of the list as the root cause. It's nearly always the electrical power and ground loops.

Come to my studio and you will see proper cable trunking that separates the different categories of wires and fibre optics as well as UPS and power conditioners.

Proper planning is more important that spending a fortune on cables.



A dig at me for what ?.

James.

[This message has been edited by Irishacts (edited 05-23-2009).]

I use what ever I can grab out of my vast wire bag Ive accumulated thru the years & I have a bunch.....never had a problem...if a wire goes bad I chuck it & grab another ...no prob.For special application I call Gigcable & have them custom make me a cable .
http://www.gigcables.com/CNmic.html



[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 05-24-2009).]

"Monster ....These cables are really excellent, they manage to add a fullness and a brightness to my set up that wasn't there with cheaper cables. Hum is virtually non-existent even at higher volumes. The best feature of these cables is how they definitely improve your tone.
They are pricey but the added brilliance, definition and body that these cables provide make them worth it. A signal chain is only as good as its weakest link. If you want to have a tone that can compete on a serious level, I would recommend these even for the small patch cables. That would be a problem if you are a shoegaze rocker, but if you play with a mostly straight ahead effects set-up, Monsters all the way through are a very cost-effective investment.

These are excellent cables for a live guitar sound as they have a pronounced midrange and clear trebles. However I would not recommend them for recording directly into a digital audio workstation or recording rig as they do not have the all-round balance that other cables like mogami-golds have. These are certainly designed and attuned for guitarists and they cater to the characteristics typical for excellent guitar tone like a punchy and full midrange."

Posted by Audiophile Guitarist from NYC on Feb 8, 2009

Donny,

Your last post is nothing but propaganda and BS by a writter with an agenda. He probably has ties to the company.

Cables do not add fullness and brightness to anything. I repeat wire is wire. I defy anyone to tell the difference between Monster cables and regular 14 guage speaker wire. The electrical impedence added by wire at audio frequencies is neglegable. The only considerations that need to be considered when selecting a cable are:

Is the wire heavy enough to handle the power? and is the sheilding needed, there?

Speaker cables since they are on the output side of the amp don't even need to be shielded.

Don't waste your money.

Tom

Don;t ya just love the LEGAL word for false advertising...

"virtually" Everything that comes after that word in advertising copy can be a total lie and usually is...

I have to ask myself if Delta Airlines in their advertising copy said

"Our flights will virtually make it to the destinations each and every time safely"
Would I really get on the plane.

Oh What the hell. Go for it..You bought those Podiums didn't ya? They worked out.

LOL! I think dnj's last quote from that Audiophile Guitarist guy was just a bit tongue-in-cheek. As dnj mentioned, if a cable goes on the blink, then he just grabs another one out of the bag. We all do that, don't we?

BTW, does a plastic-coated coathanger count as shielded?

Tom I agree....40 years of using average wires & no problems so why change now?...just thought Id post what some people are saying on the web.

ciao

Kingfrog, I just can't find anything new to spend my pocket change on..

I looked at the Bose Compact..it didn't interest me...Played the Roland stage again..not for me...So the cables seem logical...If I pass on the cables...maybe I can buy tickets to one of your shows...

Donny, I know you were just passing along information. You are too smart to fall for that BS.

Tom

Nah I wouldn't even buy tickets to see a show I was in.......Get the cables..

Donny posts a cable review by a guitarist, and someone else starts talking about speaker cables... Once again, the difference eludes you.

If your arrangers put out as low a level signal as an electric guitar does, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. You would KNOW that there is a difference between premium cables (not super high 'audiophiles' but at least the mid ranger ones) and low end ones.

But you don't know jack, because you all use static cables for high level line level signals, and are mostly of an age where hearing loss makes it impossible to hear any difference at all (I regularly work with older musicians that can't even hear a decent 60 cycle hum, let alone a low level buzz).... Shielding and wire DOES make a difference when you are amplifying a signal thousands of times, compared to a cable that carries a signal that basically doesn't need ANY amplification at the preamp.

But your own agendas (don't for one minute think that just advertisers are the only ones with one) don't even stop to acknowledge the utter difference between speaker and signal cables, let alone those between line level signals and low level guitar signals.

They are all the same, aren't they? Damn, you are some pretty smart people...! Maybe you should go down some major recording studio... give them the benefit of all your wisdom. Tell them they don't need those Neve or SSL boards, either. There's got to be some doofus that can't tell the difference between those and a Mackie VLZ, too. So that MUST make it true. Tell them their Lexicons sound the same as a Microverb... Or your SM58 stacks up against a U87.

Don't expect them to remain as polite as I have, though!

For all of us too old to hear and too dumb to know the difference between an input cable and an output cable, I'm glad we have Diki to sort all of this out for us.

Tom

Yeah me too..Don't know how I survived and thrived this long without that vast repository of knowledge.

I think we understand the difference between a shielded cable and an unshielded cable and where they are used and why.....Where we part ways is there is no need for a $50 shielded cable. ANY halfway decent shielded cable is sufficient to pass low level line signals.No need for "hocus pocus" cables.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/hdmi-cable-ba...-iii-282725.php
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/hdmi-cable-battlemodo/the-truth-about-monster-cable-part-2-268788.php
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/field-notes/the-truth-about-monster-cable-266616.php

Monoprice.com makes great cables and far less cost than any "boutique" cable.

Ever see the prices on HDMI cables at Wal Mart? They take advantage of the avg Jpe like Monster takes advantage of the above average joe....


[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 05-28-2009).]

Well, no doubt YOU could tell the difference, Tom Or at least you could INFER it. Same difference, eh?

The only linked post on this thread to do with cables (up to Kingfrog's recent) was about a speaker wire test... Go back and count how many posts talked about signal issues... Maybe there AREN'T that many that know the difference?

Maybe there are quite a few that don't realize that, in the eyes of those that actually BUY 'boutique' audiophile cables (not me, I might add), that Monster is considered a BUDGET cable, little better than the Hosa molded plug crap....
You've got to acknowledge just how HIGH the bullsh*t piles up on this issue. Monster cables are budget... to a certain viwpoint.

But you have to admire the arrogance of those that consider that ONLY what THEY consider 'good' cables actually are. ALL others lower are crap, and ALL higher are overpriced. And absolutely no room for discourse. You guys are as blinkered as ever. You don't even realize you are doing the EXACT same thing as those that buy those boutique cables do. Assuming that ONLY your opinion has any value. Only, it's YOUR opinion about those that are 'lesser'.

Me, I don't trust ANY of you. Your opinions have no more empirical truth that the 'golden eared' boys who want to pay $500 for a cable.

BTW, not ONE of you has any answer to the 'low level' signal issue. Shielding and capacitance has a great impact on guitar tones. But, what was I thinking..?! Some of you don't even play keyboards, let alone guitar... JUST who I might listen to, were I looking for informed opinion.

Tell you what.... go and talk to a few guitarists. Tell them that cable quality doesn't matter (or at least, only YOUR level of cable quality acceptance matters). No doubt your arrogance will insulate you from their laughter...

Well, let's face it. A karaoke singer doesn't actually NEED a vast repository of knowledge, do they?

For line level signals almost any screened cable will do a good enough job over short distances (shall we say up to 10 feet because that's all I ever need).

I had a few years of making my own cables. Almost all fail because the jack plugs gradually get "Loose" due to the riveted style of construction. I tried more expensive jack plugs which were held together with screws and small nuts, but the nuts come loose instead. Result - I now use bargain basement leads with moulded on jacks. I can't buy the parts cheaper. I carry a couple of spares to cope with my current failure rate of about one per annum. I use 10 of these type of cables for submix and then the feed to the main desk, all unbalanced. I replace when the failure rate goes up, total cost usually less than one pound sterling per cable.

Nevertheless for low level unbalanced signals such as guitars I'm sure there will be some difference between cheap and expensive cables, especially with long cables and bad versus good screening, so I could understand that. As I'm not a guitarist I can't comment any further, I'm talking as home electronics person here!

And to think I have attained this level of success in my life retired at 53 free of all debt by choice knowing absolutely nothing about the recording process, cables, live sound, and yet climbing to levels of major performing venues for tens of thousands of people if not millions over 15 years in venues some dream of playing in for numbers some would freeze out in front of the band performing to. Then selling stacks of self titled souvenir CDs of my own music worldwide while traveling to places earning sometimes "stupid money" in order to retire from real work..............

solely from humble beginnings in a lowly Karaoke bar in San Diego in 1984. I wish I could hate and diminish Karaoke like you do But.........in my case I applaud it.

you must really hate Karaoke. Those no nothing talentless truck drivers making $200-300 a night allowing YOUR tip payers to be the entertainment and those pesky bar owners who feel they are MORE entertaining than a similarly paid One Man Band whos main tool is now ancient technology.....

I understand your bitterness......Get over it.

But DIKI remember this...your buddies here may enjoy your constant yet pitiful attempt using Karaoke to insult sharing the same vitriol and discontent for those talentless tire changers who routinely steal your work....(which is the REAL insult to your profession)

But hear this Karaoke will NEVER be construed as an insult in my life....I owe my current place in life to Carlos and Charleys in San Diego and those who ran the firs Karaoke Show in the US (which BTW was featured a full page in Time magazine)..

Try something else Sparky. Maybe diss my mother or something more juvenile.




[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 05-31-2009).]

I could have retired at age 35....wait..does retired mean ..do what you want, when you want?...I think I have been retired a long time now...

Well, let's put it this way, Kingfrog... I am showing you exactly the same respect I get from you. I have played with players you can only buy their CD's (you can't afford to hire them). I have recorded in some of the top studios in the country. Played major venues, MD'd for major label artists, record with young players on the current Billboard Top Ten. But my experience and knowledge seems to have as much sway with you as yours does with me.

Difference is, I'm still doing it, not working in a music store...

Kingfrog great post, love your work & the stage pictures are awesome.

[This message has been edited by Dnj (edited 06-01-2009).]

I hadn't read this thread until today. All I can say is when the xxxx are you guys going to grow up?

And I CHOSE to get off the road..and still perform at MY lesuire for stupid money. I work becasue I Choose to work in a music store. Again big difference.

Choices....a good thing.


You turn your nose up at Karaoke AND music stores ...jeeeze whats next...The Audya??? LOL

The Podium?

Kingfrog at least you wake up and do what you enjoy everyday & that is the key to happiness....you have made music your choice in life as have I. Wouldn't have it any other way.

Good luck

And I owe it all to Karaoke.........LOL
and isn't that what retirement is for most people? The Time in a day that belongs to them and then only to spend how and when they choose,. not owned by an employer,not chained by "Golden Handcuffs" to a debt filled existance?

And without having to learn how to read the bass clef...or practice one Hanon excersize....... play without eyes....

My only "formal" keyboard instruction was by a piano player/teacher who taught me to play as if I was blind....Use my ears as eyes, I sometimes regret not having learned to read music well but have learned to play through hearing intervals rather than reading them....He told me "keys were not important just play and if you hit a bad note remember that the right note is always on either side of it!! LOl But there are no bad notes depending on what you do with the notes...

Just wondering, but why is it anyone assumes that it is any different for those that CAN play? I wake up happy every day, owe no-one anything, and thank the Lord He was good enough to bless me with my life's joy, that of playing music. I go to the gig every day happy that I can be creative.

I never got my knuckles rapped at practice, got a teacher who appreciated ear skills and playing by ear as well as reading, and concentrated very little on Hanon and rote learning skills. You guys make it sound as Hanon was the ONLY path to musical fluency. Trust me, it isn't...

Perhaps, instead of getting bitter at the thought of full musical education, you had simply got another teacher, found someone that recognized that Hanon wasn't the be all and end all, you might now be appreciating what you CAN do with decent playing skills, instead of denigrating them as irrelevant in today's market. Trust me, they are only irrelevant if you can't DO them...

I'd say you did good for sure & did it your way.. keep it up & enjoy!!

Play them off, keyboard cat...!
. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uW4E7VM-zdI

I am beginning to see your point... perhaps playing skills AREN'T needed for good entertainment! Shame that Corona still had the cap on, though!

60 posts about cables? Folks we gotta develop some other interests!(me included, of course)!


Russ

Maybe music would be a good one? No... we've tried that. Maybe Nigel could change the forum title to General Arranger and Gardening Forum?

It IS fun to read this thread, and note that many of the same people castigating anyone for spending $50-100 on a cable are the same people that will drop $3500-5000 on an arranger, then play mp3's through it.

But of course, spending money unnecessarily is only a sin when someone ELSE is doing it...

I learned all about gardening by trowel and error.