Several times a month...Its a completely different approach to playing. Instead of riding a rhythm, you must provide it. To lock in with the bass player/drummer in my quartet to give the singer/soloist a solid foundation to be featured over is my #1 job with regard to my piano playing in that context.

As different as it is, I really like because it keeps me sharp and listening. My brain is processing different signals with the band than it is when I'm using the arranger, because the stimuli is different.

I feel I would lose some of my listening skills/musicality if all I did was to work with an arranger. That's also why in the majority of my omb shows, I make it a point to turn off the accmp. and deliver a song or two in a traditional style of just a piano, maybe some strings in the back and my vocal.

Doing both, almost every week, is nice.

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Bill in Dayton

[This message has been edited by Bill in Dayton (edited 05-22-2009).]

I have a feeling that Russ and Bill, myself, a few others... we are the exception here, not the rule

But I also tend to think that this is an ARRANGER forum, not a karaoke one. If all you do with your arranger is minimal input while you 'entertain', there already are other forums where your particular skill set is the focus.

An arranger is a keyboard. You PLAY the keyboard. Or it is some kind of glorified jukebox with keys stuck on for no good reason (makes you wonder why modules are getting harder and harder to find )...

If 'entertaining' is your focus, why spend all that much time here? There's GOT to be some good 'entertainer' forums, surely?

An arranger is a keyboard. A WS is a keyboard. A piano is a keyboard. We ARE keyboard players. Play one, you should be able to play them all. Or you aren't a 'keyboard player', IMO...

You are a 'backing track operator'...

You had me until this:

I don't know the man, but if Evgeny Kissin sat down at my T2 or a high end ws, would he really be able to play it beyond as an acoustical instrument? I'm guessing not, but I could be wrong. He plays as such a high level, I think acoustic is his main focus. Give him some time, look out...

For those of you not familiar with Kissin, he's a world renowned classical pianist. Here's a clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9BsyS3XSYw

Yeah, he's a kb player, no doubt...



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Bill in Dayton

The thing is, with a high skill level, you have the tools and the mindset to adapt to whatever situation you are in. If he sat down and played as if it was a piano, no, it wouldn't work. If you sit at a piano and play it like an arranger, it doesn't work either. But if all you can do is struggle to operate the arranger in realtime, your chances of playing a piano part are about nil...

You can't have TOO much chops (unless you don't have the discipline to NOT use them all the time!). But you can sure have not enough!

Ah the "elitist" rears it's bitter head...It must really pain you that people who never opened a Hanon book or had a formal lesson in their life can make their living playing on arranger keyboards....People who cold not get a job playing piano in a mall can demand $200 for a few hours playing an Arranger keyboard.

Here's a clue...there is no difference between and entertainer and a keyboard player. By virtue of having an audience, EVERY player is an entertainer whether playing Clair de lune at Carnegie Hall or Just the Way you Are at Joe's Beach Bar.Since when are "musician" and "entertainer" mutually exclusive terms. Only to the elitist....

Arranger players ARE players...they cannot get the job without playing. No they don't have to have great chops, they don't have to be able to play Flight of the Bumble Bee. They don't even have to play only piano... All they have to do is play chords and some melody or sing the melody and another few hundred in the bank and some coin in the tip jar.....easy money..

Keyboard players for shows like Legends in Concert don't make as much as some Arranger players here.....$800 a week!!! for playing in a main room show in Las Vegas, Branson, Atlantic city.. and those guys are readers, some are Berkley Grads!!! An Arranger player invoicing $200 a night 6 nights a week makes far more for far less time invested. Who's the "entertainer" in that scenario?

Now if its personal accomplishment thats important, Thats an INDIVIDUAL matter. Some people's idea of personal accomplishment has nothing to do with being able to read a lead sheet or play for four hours on only an acoustic Piano. And especially not another's view of what should be considered accomplishment.

People get paid for what they DO today...not what they CAN DO were there is no market. Fortunately those who did not learn to play the keyboard under iron rule since the age of 2 can make a living given the technology available and public taste. That's a GOOD thing...

And the drummer is always sober and on time.....



[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 05-22-2009).]

Well said, Kingfrog. I CAN play in bands, and used to all the time. I CAN play guitar, drums, trumpet, organ, but I NOW play Arranger. I like it and it pays pretty well.
Why, I've made hundreds of dollars in this business.
DonM

Careful, Don... don't even MENTION that you can actually PLAY anything, yet alone that diverse selection. Or, according to Kingfrog's rant, you are being elitist also for actually PLAYING...

Karaoke singers... what to do, what to do?

They come to forums where REAL musicians hang out, and put down anybody that can do something they can't... Sounds pretty bitter and frustrated, if you ask me...

Look, I don't go off to karaoke singer's forums and berate them for having good voices (I mean, how elitist - actually SINGING! When anyone KNOWS, you can put on a CD of a REAL singer without having any singing ability whatsoever and simply mime! ).

Why they got to come here and act all jealous...?

Weak.............very weak....

Thanks for playing though..

This is not meant to be an elitist comment, because I'm certainly not an elite musician, there's a good reason I've always maintained an 8 to 5 job, some years it was more like 7 to 5 PM and the at home sales reports that lasted into the sometimes late evenings or occasionally Saturday mornings.

Anyway I digress I get a chuckle out of the word "Keyboard Player" When I took formal lessons from pianist Salvatore Fransosi, he drilled into me we are "pianists" son, not "piano players." For what it's worth, pianist does sound better than piano player or guitar player vs. guitarist. Not that it really matters, in the big picture of who works playing music everyday and earning a living that way. Funny when things are drilled into us as youngsters, they stay with us, that's really my only point.



[This message has been edited by Stephenm52 (edited 05-22-2009).]

I for one totally agree with you. Savadore was correct......There are piano players and pianists......I am in the player category.

But BOTH are relevant entertainers....or had better be if they want to earn a living playing live and gain a following. Studio players need not be entertainers....

My wife is a Pianist as in she has earned her living since she was in her 20's playing keyboards for bands to major shows under contract where she had to read charts. She sight reads ,can and does play Piano only gigs. She will only gig with 88 weighted keys, No arrangers, She would rather play with a track created on the Tyros then take the Tyros.

My issue was the stated mutual exclusion between players and entertainers or "pianists" and entertainers.....She is just as much an entertainer as a pianist as I am as simply a self taught player who can only read "Nashville charts"..... As if those who mearly "entertain" are not worthy of posting in an A R R A N G E R FORUM and should find another place to chat!!! now THAT would be funny if it were not such an ignorant statement or idea.

few events are more boring than a pianist who is not entertaining....on some level


[This message has been edited by Kingfrog (edited 05-22-2009).]