http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_cw98ardXI

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www.AudioworksCT.com
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best Rock styles in any arranger i've heard,
better than on my G-70

it's due LARGELY to the live drums which no other keyboard has

thanks Frank

can you give us the LATIN styles now?
merengue, salsa, bachata, cumbia, bolero, cha-cha, rhumba, bossa, mambo, etc.

It is due ONLY to the drums...the rest of the parts are no better than any other arranger.

And it would be nice to hear some complex chords...they may not suit the rock styles, but Latin has a lot of juicy chords, and it would help to judge just how well the audio tracks handle them.


[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 05-21-2009).]

I agree with Ian (shocking I know).. If it weren't for those drums (that sound freakin killer by the way) these styles would just sound like all the other top end arrangers out there.

Those new drums are def driving these styles. I don't hear anything special in the other tracks that puts it above the others.

why doesn't YAMAHA, KORG or ROLAND get some LIVE sounding Drums for their arrangers?

then , it would be all over for Ketron ;-)

All I hear is drums...hardly anything else...does a real band play that way?

I know they want to feature the drums, but I think it's a bit overdone.

That may have been their intent Ian. The drums may have been mixed hotter so they get noticed more.

Still.., without those drums IMO this arranger sounds like all the other out there. I'm still waiting to hear what sets the Audya so far above the T3 and Korg PA line.

I asked on the other thread, Squeak,...is this the default volume for the drums?

You can hardly hear anything else.

It reminds of story about when the producer said to the drummer, "Can we try that again, but this time with more dynamics?"

The drummer answered, "Okay, I'll try, but I'm playin' as loud as I can!"

squeak asked:
"I'm still waiting to hear what sets the Audya so far above the T3 and Korg PA line."

answer: it's price

Ian stated "It is due ONLY to the drums"

the DRUMS, in my opinion, is the most important element of a style,
it's what drives the style
it's what makes you wanna get up on the dance floor,
it's the foundation to a good style

so saying it's ONLY the drums is indeed accurate,
but let's not forget how IMPORTANT the drums are, to get that LIVE sound which NO OTHER arranger gives you...

Come on, Lee...no drummer plays THAT loud...it's dominating the rest of the style, not driving it.

Every knows the essence of a style/band is it's bass...that's what drives it...it's the foundation....you can play without a drummer, but you can't play without a bass.

i was referring to the QUALITY of the Drums NOT it's VOLUME,

you can easily just turn down the AUDYA's Drums to your liking, save your style,
the Drums will still sound GREAT

now if you turn UP the T3's Drum Tracks, and save,
well i guess you'll just get a bit more "SUCK"

Ian, answer this then

would you rather hear a band with an Acoustic Drum Set?
or an Electronic Drum Set?

Acoustic is to AUDYA... as
Electronic is to Yamaha

[This message has been edited by leezone (edited 05-21-2009).]

Actually Lee, the Yamaha drums are better balanced than the Audya, if this is their default volume.

If I played with drummer that loud, I'd hide his sticks, or wrap 'em in duct tape.

There is such a thing called "balance"...Yamaha and Roland can manage it quite well...not so the Audya...perhaps it's to hide the guitar parts.

Bass and Drums the Ketron way. Nice.
Again, when listening to these demos posted by Frank,
Ketron manage to make it sound like it's the very
same "band" playing regardless to what style choosen.
Just as experienced at SD1 ....

Thanks Frank, please post some latin and world styles too.

GJ

And play some complex chords...please?

You're right, but this is also about personal taste, just as we can
hear in different recording productions and bands performances.
Also I would like to hear it through a desent PA before final judge.
But, I agree that in this demos the drums sounds a bit loud compared
to the rest of the instruments.

Cheers
GJ

Don't get me wrong, Jonny, I think the Audya's drums sound terrific, but they should be evened out with the rest of the style...and you're right, every style sounds like the same band.

I will say that's one concept that all the arranger makers could benefit from and is clearly why Ketron sounds so live. When you're playing the more traditonal styles it does sound like the same band is going from one style to the next. Keeps a cool flow to the music and adds to the live feel.

Exactly!
If you take a flashback to Solton/Ketron models, it's the same thing.
When listen to Korg, it's a kind of the same thing ... or?

GJ

Stream samples from the harddrive and other manufacturers could do the same thing..

It was easy to do the drums 1st (SD1) because they do not respond to chord changes.

Well, these are more American than the last ones, for sure! I have to agree that they are some of the best rock patterns I've heard in an arranger, but in all fairness, a LOT of my G70's rock stuff comes VERY close to this, at, of course, a FRACTION of the price (and being four years old or more and discontinued! ), and an infinitely more 'tweakable' form.

Rock revolves around the kick pattern. Got the perfect style, but ONE kick hit ruins it? G70, no problem, Audya, sorry... no can do.

BTW, I don't agree that the drums ARE too loud. If you imagine a RH part over the top of this (and maybe a LH synth sound, too) at the usual volumes that many like to play them, the drums ARE going to have to be this pumped up for it to still rock! Mind you, keep them (YOUR Parts) down IN the mix, and not ON the mix, and yes, you COULD bring these drums down a bit. But few that I've heard here ever manage that trick!

And, no offense, but pump my G70's Rock drums up to that level, and things get seriously similar. I do agree that, other than the drums, there isn't hardly anything that screams 'next generation' here. And, given that the SD-1 did drums exactly the same way, it makes you wonder just exactly WHAT do you get for all that extra money?

Posted by Diki:
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I do agree that, other than the drums, there isn't hardly anything that screams 'next generation' here. And, given that the SD-1 did drums exactly the same way, it makes you wonder just exactly WHAT do you get for all that extra money?
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And that Diki is the $5,000 question

Well, the drums certainly are far better sounding than anything else out there, (although I've never heard the Korg "live") but since the other parts of the style are mixed so low in comparison, it's hard to tell what they really sound like...you can hardly hear the guitar parts, or the bass.

Thankfully, Frank says it's a doddle to lower the volume.

Don't the styles also incorporate 'audio' guitar parts too, along with the audio Drums? That should increase the quality of these style(s) somewhat I would think and therefore make the "overall" sound better. But from these Rock demos only the Drums seem to stand out. And consequently, as Ian stated, only the Drums are driving these styles and everything else just seems average sounding to me. In fact, I'll go one step further to say that these styles appear to sound just mediocre at best, in my opinion, and something you'd hear on some mid-range arrangers of years gone by. How's that for being blunt?

All the best,
Mike


[This message has been edited by keybplayer (edited 05-22-2009).]

Are they good enough to make you spend $5.000?

Too much drum,but its sounds real nice.
But after a while it sounds all the same.
Still no competition fore the T3

Impuls

$5000 and I would bought it already, that's cheeper than SD1, Tyros3 etc.
But here in Norway I have to pay at least $6825 if I'm lucky, if not,
I have to roll up $8087!
In worst case, if have to pay the full price, it's $9515 .....
So why moan when only have to pay US $5000 ???

Cheers
GJ

(Currency 1 US$ = aprox 6,3 NKr.)

Depends on what you earn for a gig, for one thing, and then what comparable arrangers cost. You can't sit in one part of the world and use another's currency to directly compare to you. Otherwise, I want some of those Saudi Arabian gas prices...

Audya cost about $5000 (street) over here. You can get a T3 for a bit over $3000, a PA2Xpro for maybe $3500. Heck, you can pick up a cherry used G70 for maybe about $2000

Value is about comparing prices within the same country, not between different countries with completely different economies.

Try getting sick in America. Try sending your kids to college... THEN bitch about the lower price of an arranger! Trust me, you have some pretty important things in life a LOT cheaper over there, too. But there is a price to pay for them. Obviously, Americans consider cheap goods more important that a decent health care or education system that all can afford. Are you SURE you really envy us?

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 05-22-2009).]

The T3 is $3999.00

Street? I've heard others report lower prices than this. This is just MAP, isn't it?

I'm sure you can find it for a little cheaper, Sam Ash, Guitar Center and online stores have it for $3999.00 I don't see it for $3000. I was testing the sales rep at both GC & SA to see if they would lower the price and they wouldn't move. Which is fine because I would not have bought it anyway. For extra 1k i'll be better served with the Audya.


keep hitting the submit now button by accident.


[This message has been edited by mc (edited 05-22-2009).]

So, $3500... that's still $1500 LESS than the Audya. Not chump change where I come from, anyway!

Yes it is a lot of money, but for me it satisfies my needs.

My driving needs would be satisfied with a Ferrari...

But I can get to work just as quick with a Honda

Yeah, but you will look cooler in a Ferrari...

But I'll FEEL cooler with something left in my bank balance...

Diki,

BUT the Ferrari would handle those "complex" turns a bit better, no?

Apparently, no

The 'Ferrari' of arrangers can't do anything but go in a straight line. Throw it some 'complex' curves (chords), and you end up in the ditch

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 05-22-2009).]

Keyboards usually been within the same pricerange here as the rest of Scandinavia,
either it's a Yammie, Korg, Ketron or whatever.
Now we can see that if you want to buy Audya in this country, you have to pay a
lot more than our neighbours Danish and Swedish who it's natural to compare with.
This is also the same compared to other countries as UK and i.e. USA. Usually aprox
25% higher level here, but the Audya climb the hill to make me think the Norwegian
version have to be very special, probably made of pure gold while the rest of the
worldnhave to be happy when get the plastic fantastic version.
Are the Audya priced twice as much as Tyros3 or Korg PA2X Pro elswhere? I doubt it.

Cheers
GJ

Look, country by country, what is the percentage difference between TOTL arrangers? That's what matters.

Is the price gap between a T3 and the Audya in YOUR country about the same as here? Not in arbitrary dollars, but by percentage...?

Import tariffs change country by country, as well as retail practices, sales taxes, etc.. Why does any of this surprise you...?

Did'nt my post before this one clarify as much that it make your questions here
already answered?
Where else do the Audya cost almost twice as much as T3 or PA2X Pro? Is'nt that
a "persentage" illustration told in another way? Also, why is this only happen
here in this country, and not worldwide?
Dealer see the problem but cannot explain why it's that way, so maybe Ketron can?

It's not that I cannot afford buy it, I really would like to, but I refuse to
doubble the price for a product who so far don't show it's twice as good as the
rest beside of being a beta test version. I would end up feel myself ripped off
big time as well as be "en prøvekanin" = "person used for research purposes" and
even pay to do it ...
Case closed.

Cheers
GJ

The more I hear of the Audya the more underwhelmed I become. For a keyboard that has been even more overhyped than the T3, it sounds far too "me too". There are better rock styles than that on my comparatively Jurassic E-80.

Sorry, Gunnar. Didn't quite get the point, as much as you kept referring to different country's prices.
What you have is an issue with your own country's dealer network, or perhaps an issue with tariffs on products from Italy (even though Roland's are made in Italy, they are sold by a Japanese corporation).

Have you contacted the dealers, to ask them why they are gouging you? In general, are Italian products expensive in your country?

You might also simply be victims of unavailability, which ought to go away after a while. Those that show SUCH desperation to have the latest, greatest, the MINUTE it hits the street are always susceptible to dealers charging a premium for the few that they can get. Supercars often sell for ABOVE sticker price, because availability is so low...

Basic supply and demand. Wait for supply to catch up to demand, and it is likely that the price will fall. But, if you've got to have it NOW, and maybe a dozen more want the same thing in your country, and there is but ONE to be had, basic capitalism allows the dealer to ask whatever he thinks he can get. As desperate for what, to most other people, seems like a fairly average product as you are, perhaps you are driving the price up yourself?

Act a bit more nonchalant, a bit more 'take it or leave it' like we mostly show here, and maybe the dealers WON'T gouge you for your desperation?

"Basic supply and demand. Wait for supply to catch up to demand, and it is likely that the price will fall. But, if you've got to have it NOW, and maybe a dozen more want the same thing in your country, and there is but ONE to be had, basic capitalism allows the dealer to ask whatever he thinks he can get"


Under this principle, the price of the Audya may come down in the future...