A buddy of mine has a chance to buy a Korg PA-588 arranger...88 weighted keys, 320 styles, speakers...most of you know what it is...a little heavy at 51 lbs, but he plans on studio use mainly.

Anyone have any actual hands on experience with this instrument? Not much info on Harmony Central, so, before he makes a very long drive to check it out, can anyone give the pros and cons?

Thanks in advance.

Email StephenM He tried one that his friend owns.

How are ya Ian? Hope your well!

------------------
God Bless,
Mikey

www.mikeymaestro.com
www.myspace.com/kidconcert
www.balloonanimal.com
www.jokevid.com
www.youtube.com/kidconcert

Hi Mikey,

Doin' great, buddy.

I imagine Steve will pop in sooner or later, and it would be good to see his comments posted here, in case anyone else is considering this instrument.

My buddy is concerned about the 80 note poly, and how the keys feel.

He just bought a G-1000, and the action is not quite cutting the mustard for piano, and this 588 became available at a very decent price.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 05-19-2009).]

It's a piece of cake to MIDI into a G1000 (had two independent sets of MIDI ins and outs). If he already likes the G1000, how about a nice 88 to add to it? Combined weight, if he goes for your Yamaha 88, Ian, might still be little more than the Korg. Sadly, the 588 is based on the PA500, not the 800/PA2X, so a lot of the goodies (and polyphony) are missing...

I think he'd still keep the G1000 if he could get something with weighted keys and styles in one unit, as most of the people who use/rent the studio, usually want a piano...he thought he could get away using the G-1000 but, he gets a lot of fiddle players and their piano accompanists want both 88 and weighted...they like having that low "A".

The PA-588 is at a great price, but he is unsure about the 80 note poly, and the quality of the piano...would it be better than the G-1000's? He's not entirely pleased with the piano in the latter.

Ian

Ian,

A friend of mine,as well as a long time pro musician, purchased one thru Frankieve. He bought it for playing with his quartet or big band. He won't take it to smaller 1 hour nursing home gigs ( too heavy).

I went to his studio to play the board and give him some pointers on setting up Songbook. I spent about 15 minutes playing it as a piano, the rest of the time was walking thru some of the basics of the OS. Not sure how much valuable info I can give you based on playing it for such a short amount of time.
Anyway here's what I thought. The action is a terrific weighted action. If I were mostly playing piano solo gigs but wanted features of an arranger this is the one I'd own. Not sure what your friend is going to use it for but the polyphony seemed a non issue, again 15 minutes playing it wasn't enough to put it's thru it's paces. It has many similarities to the PA800 and Pa2xpro. At it's price point the pianist gets a lot of bang for the buck.

I would not trade my Pa2xPro for a PA588.

Pros of the PA588:
Great 88 weighted keys
Dual sequencer
Songbook
Built in speakers

Cons:
Monochrome touch screen
No USB host
Proprietary power adapter
No input jack for use of the EC5 pedal

Hope that helps. One last thing, I think it certainly is worth a few hours drive to try it.

No OS2 and DNC (plus all those new voices) for the 588. No sampler to load in a better piano (Korg has a great four-way as a load for PA2).

Oh, and no Chord Sequencer

G1000 also has FC-7 input, great for the pianist arranger player to do the main stuff hands free (playing in piano mode leaves little time to press buttons).

I am surprised you haven't talked him into a P85, Ian...

[This message has been edited by Diki (edited 05-19-2009).]

Is the Piano sound (or indeed are ANY of the sounds) fully tweakable as in the PA1x/2x???

I don't like the factory Korg Piano in my PA1x but then I just load up a whole set of great sampled pianos and take my pick - you don't have sample options in this board, so I hope you get the same kind of control over sounds that you do in the other PA series.....

Thanks very much, Steve.

I think he'll go and test it after your review...it's about a 4 1/2 hour drive to Halifax.

Diki, the G1000's piano sound wasn't quite what he wanted...he's got a sure sale for it if he goes for the Korg...I'd have sold him a P85 but he doesn't want two keyboards, and he still wants arranger features.

Steve, if you've played a G1000, how would you rate the style quality compared to the Korg's? Are the 588's as good, or nearly as good as the P-800/PA2XPro styles?

Ian

You see...? There you are, looking at Korg's, because Yamaha don't consider the needs of the advanced pro piano playing arranger player...

SURE... they've got toy DGX's, and REALLY heavy Clavinova's, but there is this huge gap in the line for what I imagine most pro's (and even the same 'unwilling to use a heavy arranger' PSR home users, too) probably actually WANT. How easy would it be to sell him an 88 weighted (at P85 standards) S900..?

But nooooo...! You've got to jump camp to Korg to find anything even CLOSE to what he needs. The action of a P85, the innards of an S900... how easy would it be to sell a boatload of those?

Yes, I have expressed that many times, here, and to Yamaha as well.

And, I think it could be done and still keep the weight around 30 lbs.

I know they'd get my money right away.

And, yes, I could sell a boatload of them around here.

Funny Roland hasn't picked up on it as well.

Ian

[This message has been edited by ianmcnll (edited 05-19-2009).]

Ian,

the styles on the 588 are the same as 800/2x. There may be a small number missing because of the lack of DNC. As far as the piano goes, he should be able to get an acceptable sound with tweaking the 16 available oscialtors. Considering that Korg had the piano player in mind with this instrument, I believe they included some high quality sounds not available on the 500/800/2x. One thing I would check, would be the sound when main outputs are used. On the Korg forum some users complained about the low output level on the PA-500.

See the link: http://korgpa.com/pa_root/en/products/pa588_info.html?en

[This message has been edited by hitman (edited 05-19-2009).]

They must be trying to copy the market leader...

They do the KR series and the VIMA's, so they have the heavy 88 thing down. Well, SOMEONE has got to do it, and Yamaha have the OS and SA edge. Maybe they wait to see how well the 588 does? Still not the price point that would work, I don't think (got the money for that, you've got enough for something better, but with 76, not 88, too).

Glad to hear that I'm not the only one p*ssing into the wind, though Time Yamaha realized that the DGX is NOT what most are looking for... too dumbed down to attract the experienced arranger player that wants a piano action, IMO

Yeah, perhaps the "dumbed down" DGX is not what you, or other pros are looking for, but it sells very well...it is considered a piano based arranger as opposed to an arranger based piano, so the auto functions aren't emphasized.

I think they'd do remarkably well putting the S900's or even the S700 arranger engine in a DGX...the R&D for the former are probably already paid for, so it would be a natural, and give the DGX an even bigger edge against it's rival..the market is pretty well dominated by Yamaha and Casio, so it's very competitive.

Thanks very much, Hitman, I will send him the link for this thread tonight.

I appreciate your help....I think he will end up going to test it come the weekend.

Ian

Just as I wouldn't want a Yamaha without any SA voices in it, I am not sure I would go for a Korg without OS2's DNC...

But at least it DOES have the Guitar Mode from the PA800/2Xpro...

What a doofus! Makes a demo where you can't hear the keyboard AT ALL, and then Sweetwater actually go ahead and post it!

Come to think of it, plenty of doofusness to go around!

Have things really sunk so low? Is this the best that these guys can manage? Korg, Sweetwater...

Call me!

Again they are your preferences, not every one's. My buddy would just be happy to have an arranger with a piano that sounds (and feels) better than the one in the G-1000...the great styles are a plus.

The price for the 588 is real sweet, so I'd be very surprised he doesn't buy it.

Not if he had HEARD the DNC stuff, or SA2, I would imagine, Ian Get him to listen to the latest PA2Xpro OS2 DNC demos (and all the Yamaha SA stuff) before he makes a decision... Once he knows how big a difference thay can make, perhaps he'd have a different opinion?

Here's a thought... PSR's have a 'remote channel' that allows an external MIDI keyboard to mimic the arranger's one (so splits and stuff get mirrored). An 88 keyboard controller that could send the MIDI commands for arranger functions from it's buttons and sliders could trigger an S900 (or a nice used T2 ) that gets left in it's case out of the way...

All the great sounds of a Yamaha, with an 88. Still only one keyboard (on stage, anyway!).

I don't think hearing DNC stuff will make a difference...he's only planning on spending so much money, so he can live without it...the G-1000's styles don't have anything special either.

He's not going to be using it live...the piano and touch are the biggest concerns, plus the drums and bass lines...I think the Korg will do the job.

I thought about a controller for the S900, but it would be more of a pain than a benefit, at least for me.

Ian

Oh, and don't forget to tell him... the same dearth of third party styles that puts off a lot of potential PA800/PA2Xpro users will apply to him, too. If he is content to stick with the ROM styles, or is one HELL of a 'tweaker' and style creator, the PA588 might be the right tool.

But especially for studio use, I would imagine that fresh styles, and LOTS of variety is going to be important. Maybe even more than live...

I suppose the styles will work fine...remember, it's mostly going to be used as a piano, and perform some arranger duties.

He'll know when he tries it out...I think the bass lines and drums are the most important things for him....and he can't go wrong with the price...plus, it wouldn't be hard to sell it if it doesn't work out.

Ian

Just curious, but what is the step up in price between a DGX (with the P85 action) and a Clavinova with at least as good a sound and OS as an S900?

SURELY there's room in that lineup for your S900/P85 idea? I can see Yamaha maybe not wanting to cannibalize their own sales, but it IS still the same corporation, same division even... a sale of your S900/P85 would still be a sale, so no net loss of sales (and the S900/P85 would probably retail higher than the DGX, so more profit).

Only thing that MIGHT suffer would be the Clavinova's, and they are still cased (and cost ) like fine furniture, so I doubt the S900/P85 would even impact those buyers much. Strikes me there's a hell of a hole in the line...

Hey, I really think the S900/P85 would sell like ugly on a gorilla...or a DGX with less weight and S900 guts would be the next logical step in it's development, but it's back to the spoke in the wheel analogy again...all I do is make suggestions...the results, unfortunately, aren't up to me.

Well, you've 'spoken'...

Keep speaking, be the squeaky wheel...

Me, I've got enough 'ugly' already , but I think even I would be tempted by an S900/P85 if there's no chance of an FSR 76 S900 (or T3, come to think of it..)

Yes the "squeaky wheel" concept works, although one must be careful...remember that the mosquito that buzzes the loudest is the first to get squashed...it's a delicate balance.

One thing we can depend on is that there will be change, and hopefully any suggestions made by me, or any clients/potential clients, will be taken seriously.

Ian